[remake] pudge's hook

[-Cirno]

Meat Hook remake

Meat hook is fine when you're facing noob opponents but not against enemies who has a brain to dodge it thus making pudge unpopular in the competitive.

• Current
• Suggested

Meat Hook - (1Type)

Meat Hook - (1Type)

Sub-skill: Reversed Meat Hook - (1Type)

Notes

• Cooldown is shared between the two skills

Reason

• This can add to the "mind games" part of being a pudge
• Can also add to the reliability of the skill without losing the needed skill to pull that trick.(pun intended)
• subskill's damage is magic type.

discuss

updates:
-nerfed subskill's damage
17/1/2011
-reverted damage nerf but retained its damage type (magic).
-maximum distance for dragging has been added
*I just thought that it's the displacing ability of the hook that makes it imba, not the damage.
19/1/2011
-damage nerfed a bit

[Sven2k]

T-down, suggested before also your added sentence is horrible.. fix it

edit: also where is this sub-skill you speak of ?

[AKBu3nY]

^1st skill: snag the first unit it hits (just like current)
and learning hook gives you this subskill:
hook extend to its maximum range and snag the first unit it hits on its retraction

[Sven2k]

Originally Posted by AKBu3nY

^1st skill: snag the first unit it hits (just like current)
and learning hook gives you this subskill:
hook extend to its maximum range and snag the first unit it hits on its retraction

Now that's a lot more understandable but still T-down

[-Cirno]

Fixed.

but, why the T-down?

[Subotai]

too strong, and no lore : how can he do that ?

so uneeded since the skill is already of the strongest.

[-Cirno]

Originally Posted by Subotai

too strong, and no lore : how can he do that ?

so uneeded since the skill is already of the strongest.

if you theoretically throw a hook in a lob, then pull in, you can snag in the first unit it would hit upon return of the hook.

What am I suggesting is that the skill needs more reliability. Any enemy who has a brain know that they must place their hero behind creeps to fully counter a hook.

[silly_me]

Actually this might be a bit to strong. Would be really hard to lane vs Pudge once he gets a few lvls.

[Subotai]

yep, now it would be dodgeable only by moving aside, which is quite impossible if you don't see pudge.

[-Cirno]

Originally Posted by silly_me

Actually this might be a bit to strong. Would be really hard to lane vs Pudge once he gets a few lvls.

remember that the hook would extend to it's full range first. If you're in the path of the hook, go to the side.

bit too strong? no

bit harder to lane against? yes

[-Cirno]

Originally Posted by Subotai

yep, now it would be dodgeable only by moving aside, which is quite impossible if you don't see pudge.

if the reverse hooked was fired, you might have a little time for reflex reaction(that I think is enough) to dodge the hook.

[NotQuiteThere]

So, I think I follow how this works, but I want to make sure before I give my opinion.

1. If you activate the subskill, then you can only catch a unit upon retraction correct?

2. Both skills share the same cooldown, so you can't spam two hooks one after each other (if you ever get enough mana), correct?

If you already addressed this, I apologize, but I want to make sure I'm understanding it correctly, so if you could respond, I would be most appreciative.

[silly_me]

^ Yes, that is correct.

Originally Posted by -Cirno

remember that the hook would extend to it's full range first. If you're in the path of the hook, go to the side.

bit too strong? no

bit harder to lane against? yes

If Pudge is in uphill fog (mid lane), you won't have enough time to react when he tries to hook you. You would have to constantly move sideways inconsistently and hope he misses you.

[NotQuiteThere]

Overall, I think Silly_me is correct. This would probably be too strong based on his current skillset.

However...

I am very intrigued. I would say Pudge would need a nerf (probably his hook damage and perhaps only having the subskill available on lvl 4) if this idea is implemented.

T-down for now, but I do like the idea. It's just too strong at this point though, so please, keep tweaking.

[Sephcat74]

Don't mess with the Butcher. He's perfect as he is.

Sure anyone with brain can dodge it but it goes same way for the Pudge player. You just have to mix your shit up, and not throw retardedly obvious hooks.

T-DOWN

Why?
He is so much fun as he is now.
I don't want to dumb down DotA. You either learn it or get the hell out.

[-Cirno]

Originally Posted by Sephcat74

Don't mess with the Butcher. He's perfect as he is.

Sure anyone with brain can dodge it but it goes same way for the Pudge player. You just have to mix your shit up, and not throw retardedly obvious hooks.

T-DOWN

Why?
He is so much fun as he is now.
I don't want to dumb down DotA. You either learn it or get the hell out.

the skill needed to use the subskill is nearly equal to that of normal meat hook.

I'm only adding a bit of reliability to this skill.

---------- Post added at 01:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------

Originally Posted by NotQuiteThere

Overall, I think Silly_me is correct. This would probably be too strong based on his current skillset.

However...

I am very intrigued. I would say Pudge would need a nerf (probably his hook damage and perhaps only having the subskill available on lvl 4) if this idea is implemented.

T-down for now, but I do like the idea. It's just too strong at this point though, so please, keep tweaking.

nerfed damage

[NotQuiteThere]

OK, you've got me really interested. I'm going to give a T-null at this point, but I'm going to think about it and probably update sometime later.

[AceMeril]

dafuq? Shared cooldown? TELL ME WTF is this SUGGESTION PLZ

[B4cko]

Originally Posted by Sephcat74

Don't mess with the Butcher. He's perfect as he is.

Why?
He is so much fun as he is now.

explained.

[NotQuiteThere]

I still think the damage could be nerfed slightly, but overall I think your re-doing is good way to keep it from being imba. T-up for the drag distance nerf.