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Old 04-11-2012, 11:20 PM   #1761
Ali Radicali
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Default Does God Exist thread


Quote:
Originally Posted by forthenoodz View Post
more sources here. http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com...showtopic=3933

Except a good majority of the accounts were written by non believers.
What the fuck kind of a response is that.
It doesn't matter who wrote the accounts more than half a century later, clearly we aren't talking about reliable accounts here.

Claiming these sources as evidence would be as retarded as claiming that I am an expert on the Korean War or the Kennedy assassination. In present times, we have internet, history books, etc. to look up information on past events. What do you think these early historans used when writing about events prior to their birth? Divine revelation?
So how accurate is an account written 60 years post date, by someone who wasn't even alive at the time of the event?

The fact that there are NO contemporary accounts is a damning piece of evidence against your claim, which you can't refute by pointing to your much younger sources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forthenoodz View Post
how does can a story about Greek kings and troy prove Greek Gods?
Are you unfamiliar with the story? Or are you just utterly blind to the obvious parallels?

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, the greek pantheon plays an important part in the whole trojan affair:
The conflict starts when the goddesses hold a beauty contest and paris is made the judge. Athena, Hera and Aphrodite each offer bribes, and paris chooses Aphrodite in return for the love of the woman of his choice. He chooses Helena, the wife of Menelaos, forcing Menelaos to war to uphold his honor. From here, the story is riddled with intervention by various gods (Artemis doesn't allow the fleet to leave Aulis because she has beef with Agamemnon, various gods intercede during the battle, Apollo punishes the Greeks with plague for harming his priests, Poseidon tells his priest Laocoon about the Greeks' plan with the horse, etc. etc.)

Now of course, you'd be right in concluding that all these deities and supernatural events are probably embellishments. However, in doing so, you're using a different standard of evidence than when you say you DO believe the historicity of the new Testament. The question is why.
Why is it that a couple of lines by historians decades and centuries later is enough to convince you of god, jesus and miracles, but actual tangible evidence, like the burnt remains of troy, are not sufficient to make you believe in Apollo, Achilles and the rest?
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Last edited by Ali Radicali; 04-11-2012 at 11:39 PM.
Old 04-11-2012, 11:32 PM   #1762
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Radicali View Post
What the fuck kind of a response is that.
It doesn't matter who wrote the accounts more than half a century later, clearly we aren't talking about reliable accounts here.

Claiming these sources as evidence would be as retarded as claiming that I am an expert on the Korean War or the Kennedy assassination. In present times, we have internet, history books, etc. to look up information on past events. What do you think these early historans used when writing about events prior to their birth? Divine revelation?
So how accurate is an account written 60 years post date, by someone who wasn't even alive at the time of the event?

The fact that there are NO contemporary accounts is a damning piece of evidence against your claim, which you can't refute by pointing to your much younger sources.
my bad. wrong link.
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com...howtopic=39332
if you actually read the link there are older sources.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:45 PM   #1763
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by forthenoodz View Post
Why is his reasoning stupid?

" Rael is doing the same thing as jesus, the difference is that he's being smart enough not to get killed in the process of building fame and riches thanks to his lies."

are you implying that Jesus was after money and fame? who is this rael? Is he as "perfect" as jesus?
Rael is a self proclaimed messiah and founder of a religion, and he made a shitload of money through his sect.
First who can say what this jesus's, if he ever existed, motivations? After all, he did get insane fame.
Second, how do you know jesus was perfect?

His reasoning was stupid on two levels:
first he lists 3 options, rules 2 out and conclude that the third must be true. This is scientifically wrong. An option isn't true because the other are false, it is true because it is supported by evidence. There can always be plenty of other unknown options.
second, the arguments he uses to rule out those two options are bullshit, as I have said earlier.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:51 PM   #1764
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Failed double post. So let's say something useless: Ali, next time use spoiler tags!
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:10 AM   #1765
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by forthenoodz View Post
my bad. wrong link.
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com...howtopic=39332
if you actually read the link there are older sources.
It doesn't matter. Most of these are well into the 2nd century. 2 are purported quotes by older historians, written down later by a christian roman, Julius Africanus (who was a big influence on Eusebius, the guy who is probably responsible for the Josephus hoax.) Makes one wonder about the reliability of these early church historians. It seems to me like they were awfully keen on doctoring evidence in support of their claims by rewriting history.

I think this becomes abundantly clear when we read the argument africanus makes:
"Thallus in the third book of his histories, explains away this darkness as an eclipse of the sun- unreasonably, as it seems to me" (unreasonably, of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of the full moon, and it was the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ died).
Well, first of all, since we don't have the original manuscript where Thallus reports on the incident (20 years post date, mind), we don't know whether or not it's real. Assuming that there was a darkness though, what seems more reasonable: that the timing of events was not entirely as per gospel (I.E. eclipse half a month later), or that the darkness actually occurred, was supernatural in origin, was not reported by any contemporary writers and was later reported on by a historian, only to be "proven" wrong centuries later based on the supposed timing of events? Give me a break.



The most reliable source provided is a letter by a syrian pagan to his son, dated somewhere between 73 AD and the 3rd century (!). It doesn't mention any supernatural events, it merely mentions how the Jews executed their "wise king" (name omitted), and how that king lived on in his teachings. It mentions how the jews kill their king and lose their kingdom shortly thereafter, but the jews were already living under roman rule in the time of jesus.


As evidence goes, this stuff is real flimsy compared to troy. Seriously, go sacrifice a white bull to poseidon, he seems a lot more plausible when reviewing the archaeological and historical evidence.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:12 AM   #1766
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

God is love.

Why do I believe in God? Because I believe in love.

Can we see love? Nope.... yet all atheists believe in love.

Oh because it's something felt, not seen, touched, smelt, tasted or heard. It's only when you understand this can you understand Faith.

It's not some mushy, corny feelings gained when thinking about Jesus. It's a high regard and respect for something you know to be true even though it's not visible to the naked eye.

If you don't understand why we believe in God after that then you, sir, have a big void in your life and you need to start inviting Jesus more in your heart.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:40 AM   #1767
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Quote:
Can we see love? Nope.... yet all atheists believe in love.
You are wrong mate.
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:01 AM   #1768
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey00 View Post
Rael is a self proclaimed messiah and founder of a religion, and he made a shitload of money through his sect.
First who can say what this jesus's, if he ever existed, motivations? After all, he did get insane fame.
Second, how do you know jesus was perfect?

His reasoning was stupid on two levels:
first he lists 3 options, rules 2 out and conclude that the third must be true. This is scientifically wrong. An option isn't true because the other are false, it is true because it is supported by evidence. There can always be plenty of other unknown options.
second, the arguments he uses to rule out those two options are bullshit, as I have said earlier.
Oh, i thought you meant Jesus's reasoning. My mistake.

"First who can say what this jesus's, if he ever existed, motivations? After all, he did get insane fame.
Second, how do you know jesus was perfect?"
You will never know a person's true intentions unless you are him. There is always a possibility that he might not be who you think he is.
I believe he is perfect from the bible, which is cross referenced from ancient records etc etc etc. Besides, if he wasn't perfect, don't you think someone would have recorded it down and displayed it to the world?
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:01 AM   #1769
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by s.ops_Freak View Post
God is love.

Why do I believe in God? Because I believe in love.

Can we see love? Nope.... yet all atheists believe in love.

Oh because it's something felt, not seen, touched, smelt, tasted or heard. It's only when you understand this can you understand Faith.

It's not some mushy, corny feelings gained when thinking about Jesus. It's a high regard and respect for something you know to be true even though it's not visible to the naked eye.

If you don't understand why we believe in God after that then you, sir, have a big void in your life and you need to start inviting Jesus more in your heart.
I love how your arguments failed and you resort to appealing to us through emotion as some sort of last-ditch effort to convince people since your skills in debate are so weak

You also sound disturbingly similar to pedophiles I just saw in a movie
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Originally Posted by Thunderbolt View Post
I'd say remove the stun from shackles and shes fine.


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Old 04-12-2012, 02:18 AM   #1770
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by s.ops_Freak View Post
God is love.

Why do I believe in God? Because I believe in love.

Can we see love? Nope.... yet all atheists believe in love.
When you say love is god, that makes about as much sense to me as saying hatred is Darth Vader or generosity is Santa Claus. The word love describes a human emotion/state of mind. A brain state. God, as per bible, is some sort of ethereal, intelligent being with superpowers and a plan for humanity. I don't see how you get from "feelings" to "a god exists".

We can't see love with our naked eyes, but we can experience it, study it, research the hormones and pheromones involved, the neurons that fire up in the brain when someone experiences love, etc. I don't see any evidence for a supernatural cause for love, just like I don't see any supernatural side effects of being in love. So where is your god now?

The word love is vague enough as it is without us changing the definition. Let's use the word love to describe love, and lets try to be a bit more explicit about what you believe in, hmm?

Or if you actually do worship the emotion of love, can you explain why you need all the extra baggage of christianity? Why does one have to hate homosexuals or nonbelievers in order to worship love?
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:37 AM   #1771
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread



Enjoy people!

To the guy who said he isn't love, "Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love," according to 1 John 4:8.

Our God is lo o o o o o o o ove! Enjoy your nights everyone.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:39 AM   #1772
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread



Looked at the top comment and completely smiled
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:46 AM   #1773
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazoku View Post
That is not logic.
It's logic, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not.

Quote:
You state that nothing can come out of nowhere, wich means there is a need for a creator (and that stuff didnt exist forever). Yet that creator has never been created.
If the creator was created then he is not a creator lol.

Quote:
Nice contradiction you have there.
lolwat? excuse me, what contradiction? The contradiction is only within yourself. You can't apply your circular logic to God. By definition God is the prime origin of all other beings and things. If you are talking about someone who was also created, then thou dear fine sir art SO NOT talking about God.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:59 AM   #1774
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Quote:
It's logic, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not.
No its not, it contradicts itself. Everything had to be created, but the creator didnt need a creator. Also, the creator exists. wtf?

If you insist i will use the same "logic" you do to prove you wrong:
-The creator doesnt exist
-You cant prove this wrong

See how easy it was?

Quote:
If the creator was created then he is not a creator lol.
How come?

Quote:
You can't apply your circular logic to God. By definition God is the prime origin of all other beings and things.
You are asuming one important thing. Why there had to be an origin of things?
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Last edited by Mazoku; 04-12-2012 at 03:11 AM.
Old 04-12-2012, 06:55 AM   #1775
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

still waiting for you to use actual quotes from the bible to prove god's omnipotence.

to help you get started, god saying hes all powerful doesnt count.

thats like me saying im an international man of mystery super spy.

im giving you a break here, im even letting you labor under the assumption that hes real.


and i stand by my statement: there is no proof that the god of christianity is anywhere near as powerful as he claims to be. he could just as easily be a super-powered troll with just enough ability to convince people that hes more than he says he is.
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Old 04-12-2012, 08:56 AM   #1776
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Talron View Post
still waiting for you to use actual quotes from the bible to prove god's omnipotence.

to help you get started, god saying hes all powerful doesnt count.

thats like me saying im an international man of mystery super spy.

im giving you a break here, im even letting you labor under the assumption that hes real.


and i stand by my statement: there is no proof that the god of christianity is anywhere near as powerful as he claims to be. he could just as easily be a super-powered troll with just enough ability to convince people that hes more than he says he is.
What kind of proof do you want? Him moving planets?
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:11 AM   #1777
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

i believe superman moved the earth with 2-3 other super heroes. green lantern wonderwoman and mb one more. that doesnt sound all powerful does it?

and my point is, there is no proof. god is not all powerful, even in his made-up book
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:50 AM   #1778
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

lol @ realizing your arguments have long ago fallen apart and resorting to spamming the thread with religious songs

go here or here
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I'd say remove the stun from shackles and shes fine.


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Old 04-12-2012, 10:56 AM   #1779
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by forthenoodz View Post
Oh, i thought you meant Jesus's reasoning. My mistake.

"First who can say what this jesus's, if he ever existed, motivations? After all, he did get insane fame.
Second, how do you know jesus was perfect?"
You will never know a person's true intentions unless you are him. There is always a possibility that he might not be who you think he is.
I believe he is perfect from the bible, which is cross referenced from ancient records etc etc etc. Besides, if he wasn't perfect, don't you think someone would have recorded it down and displayed it to the world?
not so a HP quote from Deathly Hallows,
"It's easier to made up a lie based on real thing"
I wouldn't go as far as claiming the person name Jesus and his teaching is fake, but the magic and fiction attributed later to his life by Roman Caesar to support his kingdom is just..
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My favorite part in these replays are CM's deaths and her death scream. Must be the hero in Dota with most deaths. I just keep my screen on CM and follow her everywhere, just waiting for that Lion's Finger of Death to come off CD or watching enemy dots on minimap close in on her. And seems opposing team likes to see her die too.

I think someone should make a Youtube video - 30 mins of gruesome and horrible CM deaths in Dota.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:12 PM   #1780
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Star_Saber View Post
It's logic, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's not.



If the creator was created then he is not a creator lol.



lolwat? excuse me, what contradiction? The contradiction is only within yourself. You can't apply your circular logic to God. By definition God is the prime origin of all other beings and things. If you are talking about someone who was also created, then thou dear fine sir art SO NOT talking about God.
It's not logical, your first cause argument falls flat on its face. Since youre too dumb to actually type out an argument, I'll do you the disservice of doing it for you. The argument goes:

1 Whatever begins to exist has a cause.
2 The Universe began to exist.
3 Therefore, the Universe had a cause.

This is where the theists stops and inserts his god.

However, that begs the question, why is your god exempt from premise 1? That's the special pleading fallacy. If you're going to use special pleading, you might as well plead that 1 doesn't apply to the universe, rather than to god. Simple as that. Using Occam's razor, what seems more plausible, that the universe has always existed (in some form), or that an infinitely powerful being outside of time and space exists, and poofs galaxies into being?


Don't even get me started on the fact that it might not even make sense to talk about "before the big bang", since the singularity from which the bang started presumably had no time. Since causality requires time, talking about a first cause in a time before time seems like pure conjecture.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:47 PM   #1781
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

God is exempt from premise 1 because he didn't begin to exist.
Stronk logic
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:53 PM   #1782
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazoku View Post
No its not, it contradicts itself. Everything had to be created
Everything BUT God. No circular logic on God plz.

Quote:
but the creator didnt need a creator. Also, the creator exists. wtf?
If the creator was created, doesn't that mean he is actually a creation, a creature too? Then who is the creator?
You and me are not talking about the same person.

Don't insist with your circular logic - it won't work.

Quote:
You are asuming one important thing. Why there had to be an origin of things?
Because if it wasn't like that, then even logic itself wouldn't exist. If A is the cause, and B the consequence, then if B is true, then A must also be true. That's logic at the most elementary level. See the circling here? I do not. If things didn't have an origin they couldn't exist.
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:01 PM   #1783
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Simplicity isn't an act of stupidity, it's an act of humility, virtue and being humble. It's like a World Heavy Weight champion getting slapped by a really skinny dude and overlooking it because his temperance is golden, so too is simplicity an act of golden nobleness.

The Parable of the Arrogant Guest

Quote:
Scripture: Luke 14:1, 7-14
1 One sabbath when he went to dine at the house of a ruler who belonged to the Pharisees, they were watching him. 7 Now he told a parable to those who were invited, when he marked how they chose the places of honor, saying to them, 8 "When you are invited by any one to a marriage feast, do not sit down in a place of honor, lest a more eminent man than you be invited by him; 9 and he who invited you both will come and say to you, `Give place to this man,' and then you will begin with shame to take the lowest place. 10 But when you are invited, go and sit in the lowest place, so that when your host comes he may say to you, `Friend, go up higher'; then you will be honored in the presence of all who sit at table with you. 11 For every one who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." 12 He said also to the man who had invited him, "When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your kinsmen or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return, and you be repaid. 13 But when you give a feast, invite the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind, 14 and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just."
If you had eyes and ears to this parable, you'd understand the meaning of this parable. It basically said that arrogance, sophistication, pride, etc will come with a great cost, as there are many in this category and therefore competition shall be very stiff and you will find yourself easily humbled.
Conversely, if you suck in your pride, arrogance, etc, you shall be praised all the more for such a virtuous act and you will be noticed.
It's easy to find a million men with knowledgeable and impressive words yet they are fools who run their mouth for centuries yet have not one word of wisdom to share.
However, it's dreadfully impossible to find one man who knows such words, yet knows the importance of when, where and how to use these words to his advantage as the wise men know not to use it to improve their own image, but only in times of responding to the fool, not to bring him down but to correct him. It's dreadfully impossible to find one man who's so highly educated, yet is genuinely loved by his friends as any friend would detest indirect hostility in sophisticated verbal speech, a nasty way of belittling others and a tongue that never ceases to end because they person is too consumed with self adoration and pride.

Jesus' parables always had a profound meaning and were directed to us, yet people have no eyes neither ears as he said and put them off.


Quote:
<< Proverbs 1 >>
New American Standard Bible
22“How long, O naive ones, will you love being simple-minded?
And scoffers delight themselves in scoffing
And fools hate knowledge?
23“Turn to my reproof,
Behold, I will pour out my spirit on you;
I will make my words known to you.

24“Because I called and you refused,
I stretched out my hand and no one paid attention;

25And you neglected all my counsel
And did not want my reproof;

26I will also laugh at your calamity;
I will mock when your dread comes,

27When your dread comes like a storm
And your calamity comes like a whirlwind,
When distress and anguish come upon you.

28“Then they will call on me, but I will not answer;
They will seek me diligently but they will not find me,

29Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the LORD.

30“They would not accept my counsel,
They spurned all my reproof.

31“So they shall eat of the fruit of their own way
And be satiated with their own devices.

32“For the waywardness of the naive will kill them,
And the complacency of fools will destroy them.

33“But he who listens to me shall live securely
And will be at ease from the dread of evil.”
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:47 PM   #1784
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:13 PM   #1785
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

S.ops_freak:
In trying to paint us as arrogant, simply for disagreeing with your claims, first of all you're commiting a blatant ad hominem fallacy: how arrogant we are or are not has NO bearing on how true our position is. We could be the most vain group of snooty socialites, it still wouldn't tell you whether we're right or wrong. But secondly, you're inflating a difference in opinion into a personal attack on you. You think belief is justifyable despite a lack of evidence, we think that's irrational. Instead of trying to defend your case, you tell us we're being mean and arrogant for not believing you unquestioningly.

You've admitted that you have no solid evidence to present, why can't you understand that that means you're done? Why is it arrogant for us not to accept your irrational arguments?
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:22 PM   #1786
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Belief is justified because the one who we believe in is the final Judge. You have no right to say it's not justifiable because your eyes are blind to the truth.

You have no evidence of the Big Bang neither Evolution occurring yet you also try to justify it, stop being a hypocrite already. We have every right to believe in God as you do in your theories, cept your beliefs are merely formulated theories and will always remain that way while we have the existence of God and millions to back us up on this.

Solid evidence? I am not called to work miracles out of no where, all the evidence are in the Scriptures and as there are real accounts of Jesus, I don't think I'd need anymore. God is love and just based on that fact, it's enough to give me reason to believe.

I don't call you arrogant for not accepting my beliefs, then that'd just be hypocrisy at it's best.

I call you arrogant because you blatantly preach your doctrines with such pride in such a scoffing manner that it makes me sick. No where in your posts are there any indication that you want any betterment of man kind, your motives are clearly to sow discord amongst the already firm planted wheat in the garden and to make us into weeds.

The fact that you think you're better than us because you 'try' to look beyond something taught all these years is exactly what makes me uneasy. As a matter of fact, I'd say we think out of the box more than you do as you guys just end up confusing yourselves all the more with these far fetched theories whilst we're led to the Truth each day in our lives.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:45 PM   #1787
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

can we get a muslim or a hindu, or some from any of the 100000 other religions to debate with him?
Sowing discord. LoL.

I had an epiphany:
studying biology and chemistry+not believing evolution==troll;
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:53 PM   #1788
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

I believe in evolution but I believe Creationism was initial. I have already studied natural selection and I think evolution and creationism goes hand in hand and complement each other quite well. I won't go into detail with this as this would just lead me regurgitating things already mentioned in the past.

Just thought I'd leave another awesome song while I'm replying since I never really wanted to anyway...

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Old 04-12-2012, 03:36 PM   #1789
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Quote:
Because if it wasn't like that, then even logic itself wouldn't exist. If A is the cause, and B the consequence, then if B is true, then A must also be true. That's logic at the most elementary level. See the circling here? I do not. If things didn't have an origin they couldn't exist.
If A is the cause an B is the consecuence if A is true then B is true. However, if B is true it doesnt mean A is true. That is simple logic.

Do you atleast understand that?

Quote:
Everything BUT God. No circular logic on God plz.
Why is god exempt? Because he is god. That is circular logic.


Quote:
If the creator was created, doesn't that mean he is actually a creation, a creature too? Then who is the creator?
The creator is the one that created the creator. However, he was created to by a creator wich means the real creator is the creator of the creator of the creator. However, he was created as well, wich leads us to an infinite chain of goods that created another god.


This means that using a mathematical indetermination you can asume that "the infinite chain of creators" existed forver and at the same time they didnt thus solving the circular logic of "god existed forever because he is god".

If you start using the premise that "nothing is was created from nowhere" then you must be prone to belive that there is an infinite amount of gods out there in order to provide your argument with some coherence. However, what would be the point of using this argument if no current religion worship an infinite amount of gods? This argument for all practical purpuses is useless for religious people because it doesnt fit their imaginary friend characteristics.
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:50 PM   #1790
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by forthenoodz View Post
how does can a story about Greek kings and troy prove Greek Gods?
how does a book about jesus and god prove their existence? derp much...srsly d00d
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Old 04-12-2012, 03:57 PM   #1791
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Radicali View Post
S.ops_freak:
In trying to paint us as arrogant, simply for disagreeing with your claims, first of all you're commiting a blatant ad hominem fallacy: how arrogant we are or are not has NO bearing on how true our position is. We could be the most vain group of snooty socialites, it still wouldn't tell you whether we're right or wrong. But secondly, you're inflating a difference in opinion into a personal attack on you. You think belief is justifyable despite a lack of evidence, we think that's irrational. Instead of trying to defend your case, you tell us we're being mean and arrogant for not believing you unquestioningly.
A society without a notion of God does tend to be arrogant and infinitely flawed anyway.
Just check out what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah.

Seems only logical that if you can't come to respect God there's a much lesser chance for you to respect mundane human authorities in your life.

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Originally Posted by Mazoku View Post
The creator is the one that created the creator. However, he was created to by a creator wich means the real creator is the creator of the creator of the creator.
lmao. Stop walking in circles plz. I hate circular logic.

Quote:
Why is god exempt? Because he is god. That is circular logic.
That's not circular logic, that's self-containing logic. Makes sense since we're talking about God anyway. Being God means you don't need anyone or anything else in order to exist. What's his name again?
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Last edited by Star_Saber; 04-12-2012 at 04:08 PM.
Old 04-12-2012, 04:10 PM   #1792
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread



You know why it's so hard Skillet? Because more people need God in their lives to know what love truly is.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:12 PM   #1793
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

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Originally Posted by Star_Saber View Post
A society without a notion of God does tend to be arrogant and infinitely flawed anyway.
Just check out what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah.
That's just a stupid story in your book. The existence of these cities is still argued by archeologists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Star_Saber View Post
Seems only logical that if you can't come to respect God there's a much lesser chance for you to respect mundane human authorities in your life.
This is such a stupid assumption. I actually respect the people around me, otherwise I would be a very lonely guy. Just because I'm an atheist doesn't mean that I hate everyone, and you would have to be extremely dense if you actually believe this.

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Originally Posted by Star_Saber View Post
lmao. Stop walking in circles plz. I hate circular logic.
Funny, because in your posts you seem to be rather fond of circular (lack of) logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Star_Saber View Post
That's not circular logic, that's self-containing logic. Makes sense since we're talking about God anyway.
Changing some words around doesn't help your case. He describes a perfect example of circular logic.

How does it make sense because were talking about god? I don't believe in your god, and so do billions of other people who don't believe in the christian god. And billions of people who are already dead who also didn't believe in your god. But this isn't an appeal to the masses fallacy, I'm just pointing out that you're using an excuse to cover up the fact that you can't escape your circular logic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.ops_Freak
You know why it's so hard Skillet? Because more people need God in their lives to know what love truly is.
Haha I've had much love without god in my life. Is god your mistress now? When are you two getting married?
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:20 PM   #1794
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Quote:
That's not circular logic, that's self-containing logic. Makes sense since we're talking about God anyway. Being God means you don't need anyone or anything else in order to exist.
Fine then, ill use the same logic you do.

God doesn exist because he is god.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:00 PM   #1795
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by s.ops_Freak View Post
Belief is justified because the one who we believe in is the final Judge.
That's who the muslims believe in too. Is their faith justified too?

Total non sequitur by the way. You might as well have said your belief is justified because god rides on a pink pony. The subject of your belief in and of itself is no justification for the belief.
Aztecs truly believed that the sun would not rise without blood sacrifices. Were they justified in their belief, simply because the outcome would be horrible if they stopped worshipping?


Quote:
You have no right to say it's not justifiable because your eyes are blind to the truth.
"You have no right to argue with me because you don't agree with me."
How rational.

Quote:
You have no evidence of the Big Bang neither Evolution occurring yet you also try to justify it, stop being a hypocrite already. We have every right to believe in God as you do in your theories, cept your beliefs are merely formulated theories and will always remain that way while we have the existence of God and millions to back us up on this.
No evidence? Buddy, get real. I don't want to bore people by repeating myself, so just scroll back a couple dozen pages where I gave a full account of science which you have yet to respond to: http://www.playdota.com/forums/showp...postcount=1425
Quote:
Solid evidence? I am not called to work miracles out of no where, all the evidence are in the Scriptures and as there are real accounts of Jesus, I don't think I'd need anymore. God is love and just based on that fact, it's enough to give me reason to believe.
If the bible is evidence enough to support Jesus and miracles, why isn't the illiad enough to support Zeus and the greek pantheon?
You again make the claim that god is love, but you haven't explained how you arrive at that conclusion. What are you even talking about?


Quote:
I don't call you arrogant for not accepting my beliefs, then that'd just be hypocrisy at it's best.

I call you arrogant because you blatantly preach your doctrines with such pride in such a scoffing manner that it makes me sick. No where in your posts are there any indication that you want any betterment of man kind, your motives are clearly to sow discord amongst the already firm planted wheat in the garden and to make us into weeds.
So conviction is arrogance now? In that case you're indeed a hypocrite, considering the certainty with which you throw about hellfire threats etc.

Example:

Quote:
Originally Posted by s.ops_Freak View Post
God exists without a doubt.

I don't understand the logic of "intelligent" scientists. They claim that two atoms just appeared out of no where and collided with one another to make the universe. This is foolishness if you'd ask me.

You proud atheists choose this over your creator? You ought to be ashamed of yourselves. Instead of two atoms magically appearing, is it not that God could have just been present as well?
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.ops_Freak View Post
Who said anything about God magically appearing? God simply existed hence he IS THE BEGINNING and since he'll never die, he is the end as well. God simply wasn't born from anything else neither did he come into existence else his role as God would not be important and would not be worthy of praise. He created time and it was then when we start seeing progress. Trying to understand how he always existed is like eating from the tree of knowledge. Some things are better left untouched, Ignorance is bliss.
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.ops_Freak View Post
And this argument is strong how? We all know Harry Potter is fictional as it was man made and even claimed to be fictional. You accuse me of not using my brain yet you bring up these kind of arguments against me? In fact, sorcery may very well exist, not in our world but in the supernatural one. The sorta magic inherited by people selling their souls to the devil is obviously puny compared to the real dark magic.


Certainty or a high degree thereof, is not the same as hubris. If we have good evidence, we have good reason to be certain. If we have lots of good evidence, there comes a point where uncertainty is no longer the default position, and then IT needs evidence to be supported.

This accusation of arrogance is just the desparate last ad hominem of the theist who has no arguments left. A second ago you were preaching with great certainty that god is real, now, when all your arguments have been creamed, you're claiming that certainty is tantamount to arrogance.

Give me a break you hypocrite.
That's not a word I like to use, as it is an ad hominem, but when you use a double standard to judge atheists as arrogant for exhibiting the very same certainty that you see as a merit in christians, you ARE being a hypocrite. And need I remind you that YOUR religion hates hypocrites, not my atheism?
Double hypocrite.

Instead of trying to sling mud at us, how about you just focus on actual arguments?

Quote:
The fact that you think you're better than us because you 'try' to look beyond something taught all these years is exactly what makes me uneasy. As a matter of fact, I'd say we think out of the box more than you do as you guys just end up confusing yourselves all the more with these far fetched theories whilst we're led to the Truth each day in our lives.
Again, you're projecting here, since YOUR religion clearly tells us that its followers are more worthy, more honourable, more deserving of eternal orgasm, than those who don't follow it. Exclusivism and a superiority complex are built in features of your dogma.

I don't think I'm better than you, I don't think you deserve eternal torture for believing silly stories, I just think you're wrong. To an atheist, that's not a judgement or condemnation. You turn it into an insult by acting insulted and getting offended.
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Last edited by Ali Radicali; 04-12-2012 at 05:17 PM.
Old 04-12-2012, 05:24 PM   #1796
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

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Originally Posted by Mazoku View Post
God doesn exist because he is god.
Nonsense. You state that he doesn't exist, and later you state that he is, in the same sentence.
Sorry, you just defeated yourself.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:34 PM   #1797
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

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Originally Posted by Star_Saber View Post
Nonsense. You state that he doesn't exist, and later you state that he is, in the same sentence.
Sorry, you just defeated yourself.
Does god exist? No. Why doesn't he exist? Because he's god.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:36 PM   #1798
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

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Originally Posted by Star_Saber View Post
That's not circular logic, that's self-containing logic. Makes sense since we're talking about God anyway. Being God means you don't need anyone or anything else in order to exist. What's his name again?
Ok, Star_Saber, you say your god is exempt from the assumption that everything needs a cause because he is god.
Alright, I say that the big bang is exempt from it too because it is the big bang and time probably started with it.

Your argument is flawed. You can repeat it as many times as you want, that won't make it true.
If you want to make it solid, here are the steps you have to take now:

- prove your assumption that everything needs a cause. On that matter, quantum mechanics begs to differ.
- prove that your god can be exempted. And saying because he is god is not a valid explanation.

You're arguing with rational people here, irrational arguments like "because he is god" are just worthless.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:39 PM   #1799
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

Self-containing doesn't make it flawed.

I told you that God is the only example of self-containing logic.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:45 PM   #1800
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Default Re: Does God Exist thread

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Originally Posted by Star_Saber View Post
Self-containing doesn't make it flawed.

I told you that God is the only example of self-containing logic.
You realize "self-containing logic" is a meaningless way to put words together right?
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