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Old 04-16-2012, 07:14 PM   #41
Kris
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Default What exactly is the role of Slardar?


Quote:
Originally Posted by r3dman View Post
Need a mechfag here. Iirc, the damage that gets splashed is a % of the dmg the main target receives (after all reductions) and not a direct % of the damage output (before reductions), but we need someone from adv mech to solve.
The damage from cleave is directly proportional to the damage on the hero with some armor type multipliers afaik. It doesn't care if your target has 1000 armor or -50. It will splash the same amount of damage in the AOE.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:22 PM   #42
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Default Re: What exactly is the role of Slardar?

Quote:
Need a mechfag here. Iirc, the damage that gets splashed is a % of the dmg the main target receives (after all reductions) and not a direct % of the damage output (before reductions), but we need someone from adv mech to solve.
Pick kunkka and hit a creep, write down the damage nearby creeps recived. Then pick up an AC and use MoC on the creep you are hiting, nearby creeps will recive the same damage they did on the first try.

On lanaya it doesnt work this way. Enemies will recive damage based on the damage recived by the 1 target. This is the reason why you can get lucky shots (for example you atack a ranged manta ilusion and use dagon right away on it, units behind it will recive 800*4=3200 dagon damage GG).
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:27 PM   #43
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Default Re: What exactly is the role of Slardar?

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Originally Posted by Mazoku View Post
Pick kunkka and hit a creep, write down the damage nearby creeps recived. Then pick up an AC and use MoC on the creep you are hiting, nearby creeps will recive the same damage they did on the first try.

On lanaya it doesnt work this way. Enemies will recive damage based on the damage recived by the 1 target. This is the reason why you can get lucky shots (for example you atack a ranged manta ilusion and use dagon right away on it, units behind it will recive 800*4=3200 dagon damage GG).
Or use diffusal blade =p
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:29 PM   #44
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Default Re: What exactly is the role of Slardar?

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Or use diffusal blade =p
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:29 PM   #45
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Default Re: What exactly is the role of Slardar?

Ok so to set things straight.

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Cleave causes a melee unit's attacks to deal a portion of their damage in an AoE. The damage dealt by Cleave is reduced by armor type, but not by armor value, and derived from the actual damage of the attacking unit (as opposed to the damage that the primary target took from the attack). Cleave does not affect the primary target of the attack.
This means that if for instance a hero attacks a range creep wich has unarmored armor TYPE with 10 armor VALUE with an attack of 100 dmg and 50% cleave, it will do exactly:

62.7 dmg to the range creep it attacked (as primary target gets reduced attack damage by armor VALUE wich is 10) -> Note that primary target is NOT affected by cleave damage!
50 damage to all non-fortified armor units in cleave AOE as hero damage type deals 100% dmg to all but fortified armor -> Regardless of the units armor VALUE
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:39 PM   #46
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Default Re: What exactly is the role of Slardar?

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Originally Posted by Ne0Majorer0 View Post
EDIT: I cant believe that 6 or 7 years after Slardar has been around, people still consider Battlefury on him *facepalm*.
I can't believe that after 6-7 years or so people STILL consider Slardar a poor ES/Centaur imitation that doesn't nuke hard enough (because of lack of nukes) and doesn't deal enough physical DPS (because people are stupid enough to farm BKB + Dagger instead of farming DPS items).

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Thats one of the many reasons some people will never ever learn to be better players.
Speaking for yourself, maybe?
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:45 PM   #47
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Default Re: What exactly is the role of Slardar?

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EDIT: I cant believe that 6 or 7 years after Slardar has been around, people still consider Battlefury on him *facepalm*.
BF was considered a trash item arround +3 years ago.

Quote:
I can't believe that after 6-7 years or so people STILL consider Slardar a poor ES/Centaur imitation that doesn't nuke hard enough (because of lack of nukes) and doesn't deal enough physical DPS (because people are stupid enough to farm BKB + Dagger instead of farming DPS items).
The most of your dps comes from your ultimate, wich benefits all of your allies as well. Knowing that you are mele with not exactly the best survivavility/mobility out there....
I rather leave the farm to a Potm or a WR, they will deal tons more dps on the amp unit than you will.
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Old 04-17-2012, 07:26 AM   #48
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Default Re: What exactly is the role of Slardar?

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Originally Posted by Star_Saber View Post
Speaking for yourself, maybe?
Actually speaking for YOU. Every thread you jump into you end up flaming someone that has a different opinion.

I wont bother anymore, you think Battlefury Slardar rocks on and is the role on which he helps his team the most, go right ahead. It probably works in the games you play.

I just hope you dont jump into my games, thats all Keep having fun thats all that matters.
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Old 04-17-2012, 09:36 AM   #49
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Default Re: What exactly is the role of Slardar?

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Originally Posted by Kris View Post
Or use diffusal blade =p
Now that is just unintended. Dealing 99999 damage in an area is far too good to be a feature of the hero. I guess IceFrog forgot/doesn't want to put a damage limitation because it is not the easiest thing to recreate.

Quote:
I can't believe that after 6-7 years or so people STILL consider Slardar a poor ES/Centaur imitation that doesn't nuke hard enough (because of lack of nukes) and doesn't deal enough physical DPS (because people are stupid enough to farm BKB + Dagger instead of farming DPS items).
A year ago with the -armor trends Slardar was played as a hard carry and used to kick ass. But then there was a huge public outrage, Slardar got nerfed and the -armor trends went away.
Truth is he only needs attack speed to be effective. Being able to bash someone is enough for him because with his ultimate heAnd his entire team will deal a lot of damage, unless the target is an armor whore (and we don't see those around anymore).
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Old 04-17-2012, 10:12 AM   #50
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Default Re: What exactly is the role of Slardar?

Slardar is a semicarry that relies on jumping onto people to be truly effective. Expecially nowdays, when most heroes can blink around/windwalk before you can amp them. Blink is core on slardar for this simple reason. Rushed blink however leaves you out of mana every time you jump someone, or vulnerable. Most of the time if you get good farm you can consider if you should go vanguard, finish your threads and then get your blink. Armlet on slardar is just stupid if you are the first one to go in. After blink, 99 times out of 100 you want a bkb to wreck squishy heroes after jumping in. AC/Heart if the game is not over. Unless you are playing with enigma/tide with blinks themselves, blink is mandatory
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Old 04-17-2012, 04:02 PM   #51
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Default Re: What exactly is the role of Slardar?

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Originally Posted by Millennium View Post
When should he be picked or not? Go PT Dagger BKB AC or use Armlet, HoT, Crit etc?

Medallion good or bad on him? Vanguard required?

What about Battle Fury for damage and regen? If you attack an enemy whose armor is reduced, does it also increase your cleave damage to other enemies?

Skill build? Does it vary?
He's a multi-dimensional hero. Most heroes only serve one or two roles, tops. Slardar is unique in that he can serve MANY roles, often all at once. He can tank, he can chase, he can gank, he can support, and he can carry. Basically, you can do almost everything with this hero. Sprint is excellent as a mobility boost, which greatly enhances your ability to chase and finish enemy heroes, or get the hell out of sticky situations. Slithereen Crush is just as good as Centaur's Hoof Stomp, if not better, since the enemies are slowed by a good amount for 2 more seconds after the stun. That, combined with the low cool down and somewhat larger AoE, makes chasing so easy with Slardar. His bash ability is more reminiscent of a carry, allowing him to deal a lot more damage and disable enemy heroes here and there. His ultimate serves a dual purpose of cutting through armor (this counts for a lot more than you might think) and revealing invisible units.

Personally, I prefer playing Slardar as a carry/ganker/pursuit/tank hero. I don't like supporting with blink dagger and whatnot, since his ability to deal damage is just so great. Str Treads, HotD, and 2 bracers is my core build, which gives him a lot of HP and damage at the same time, with decent attack speed from treads. From there, I generally branch to Yasha, getting Perserverance as well (for Bfury later). After that, it's a decision between finishing SnY or Bfury - go for Bfury if you can afford to pass up on 304 HP and the extra disable. Afterward, you should focus on either another damage item (say Buriza or Radiance) and/or a Hyperstone.

MoC is stupid on Slardar. It's an early item for cutting through armor, but heroes don't have that much armor early on, and reducing an opponent's armor too much below zero is actually counter-effective. Ideally, you want to lower their armor to exactly zero, or around zero (give or take 1 or 2 points). However, it's better to reduce a hero's armor from 15 to 2, than it is to reduce his armor from 6 to -6. You can look up the math craft, but you'll never need additional sources of armor reduction unless you're facing either a DK, or a massive tank that has or is going for Cuirass/Shivas. -16 armor is a lot.
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:47 AM   #52
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Default Re: What exactly is the role of Slardar?

I find this hero extremely team based.

If you have a dps guy to benefit from your ult, a babysitter so you can farm something on lane and a support with Arcane Boots so you don't get dry every three seconds, he does good even in pubs

But playing pubs with no friends, I usually ended up harassed by ranged rightclickers (he's weak on the lane) when my team mate was also melee the lane usually was auto lost (happens in pubs a lot). Later when ganking I had to constantly buy clarities because every gank attempt = 0 mana and nobody had clarities. Also when blinking in, people did not follow me so I often just died for nothing.

I think this is a hero to avoid in public environment unless you want to play a carry slardar and get some bfury+domi to farm woods and stack ancient camps. But if you're doing that, why not Void or Mortred? They do it better and carry better. If you're trying to play the usual comp vg+dagger+bkb slar, your success is almost entirely dependent on the rest of your team and their ability to utilize your initiation and amp. When people attack a different target than the one you amped or follow after your initiation after 3 seconds delay, you will be useless. You will also not farm dagger+bkb+vg (it's 8000 gold or so) when nobody is there to babysit you and your team mate steals farm from you rather than helping you.

Slardar fits an organized team imho where he can use his strengths well and his weaknesses are covered by picks/teamplay
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