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Old 04-17-2012, 02:17 AM   #1
NeuroNoise
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Default [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast




"Look at my horse,
My horse is amazing!.."

from Amazing Horse
Hi! I'm NeuroNoise! Welcome to my suggestion for..

The Ripping Beast
Praedator



"Praedator" meaning "hunter" from latin. Hunter.. Praedator not a typical hunter. He not waits in the bushes. He heatedly dashes to victim, crushing, ripping and destroying all on his way. The ripping beast.. he always ready to battle. He already coming for you..

Game Role:
Сarry, initiator, durable, ganker.

Comments:
It's my first attempt to create a new hero, so don't be hypercritical, but also don't hesitate to correct me, report about any mistakes, give some advices, ask a questions, etc.
Any numbers in suggestion can be remaked/rescaled for the balance adjustment.

Guys! Give your T-ups, and maybe.. IceFrog add this hero in the next patch!

I will be very happy to any help with making testmap
(i will give all explanations how skills should work, go to Testmap/Explanations)

And please, sorry for my poor English..
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Last edited by NeuroNoise; 11-02-2012 at 01:46 AM. Reason: read changelog for more details.
Old 04-17-2012, 03:54 AM   #2
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeuroNoise View Post



Hi! I'm NeuroNoise! Welcome to my suggestion!
It's my first attempt to create a new hero, so don't be hypercritical, overwhelming me by T-Downs
I hope you will not become frustrated/bored or so, reading my suggestion.
Don't hesitate to correct me, report about any mistakes, give some advices, ask a questions, etc.
Any numbers in suggestion can be remaked/rescaled for the balance adjustment.

Unfortunately, hero model is absent for now. So, I will be happy to any help with finding some suitable hero model.

And please, sorry for my poor English..

i think.. we shall begin!
Hi NeuroNoise! (Nice avatar BTW i love his work. you read Abara?)

First of all, I think a good unit to use for this hero would be the zergling model. The posters on this forum like it more when you use WC3 vanilla (original) models, and the zergling model comes with WC3. Needless to say, the icon goes along with it.

Stats: Well rounded. the strength gain seems a little high in comparison to the other starting stats, but its fine the way it is. One thing I would change is the base int. i would suggest maybe 13-14, and increase the gain to 1.3-1.5

ADV. Stats: no comment.

Skills

Greed Rush: I really like this idea. reminds me of a cat playing with its food. the numbers for this skill are done well, but units shouldnt move back to where they were in 0.5 seconds, they should just continue what they were doing (attacking, moving, etc.). Another thing i would like to see is its ability to cancel a channeled ability on the units that are pushed away during the charge. the throw should also have a slightly decreased range, that could be incredibly too powerful in the beginning of the game, especially if you are laning at your tower.

Hunter's Jump: Another good idea, but slightly unoriginal in the sense that Mirana already has leap. no further comments

Feel my Pain: WOW! REALLY great idea, but maybe a LITTLE too powerful. 95% damage taken from heroes converted into bonus damage, and 70% lifesteal on the next attack, and half the damage on the one after. a little too powerful of a skill. Tweak the numbers to be less powerful, and it might fly.

Rampage: I can definitely see the synergy this has with Feel My Pain, and i like the idea of losing control of your hero. But for how long do you lose control? It says the buff is 4 seconds, but what about that debuff? good idea though

Overview: A solid hero concept, but some numbers need tweaking.

could i ask you to return the favor and review my hero idea?
http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=763075
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:41 PM   #3
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Propagate11235, thanks for detailed review!

Idea about zerling model is very good, I think it will be main model.. =)
Int gain improved, it really was needed.

Greed Rush: my fault, forgot about towers.. numrers decreased.

Hunter's Jump: Leap.. hmm, maybe. But he really needed skill to place his ulti without necessity to buying Dagger. It also good initiating/escape tool.. so.. oh, nvm, nvm.

Feel my Pain: yeah. it may become something that people call "imba".. so, decreased.

Rampage: after 1.5 seconds, it will be 1 second or 1 attack uncontrollable. About debuff - you losing a good amount of HP, it really not enought?..

Anyway, thanks, I think it's more better now.. )

P.s. Sure, I comment your hero idea a bit later =)
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Old 04-17-2012, 11:43 PM   #4
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

It is looking a lot better!

one thing i just noticed, the AoE for Hunter's jump is too wide. the way it is now, you wouldn't have to even actually HIT the target with your hero for the ministun to take effect. it should be about 200-250, so that when you leap, you have to be at least close to melee range for the ministun. At least, thats how i feel about it, especially when i read the skill description.

Another opinion i have about Feel My Pain is that the cooldown should be a tiny bit longer, say maybe 2-3 seconds at level 4, especially since you are combining two very powerful effects.

just my 2 cents :3
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:06 AM   #5
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Hunter's Jump: Yep, you are right, AoE is too big. Decreased.

Feel My Pain: My fault. I think, there was a slight misunderstanding.. Feel My Pain adds to bonus damage only single-dealed portion of damage (single attack/one cats/one portion of DoT/etc.), if it was greater than 30, and passive not on cd. Damage portions not stacks. But, if you gain a single-dealed portion of damage, which is greater than previous portion, and passive is not on cd, buff will be replaced with new.
Now that's more clear, I think? Give feedback, please

p.s. I didn't understand about avatar first time Love Tsutomu works, too But I haven't readed Abara, unfortunately..
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Old 04-18-2012, 02:17 AM   #6
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

honestly, the way feel my pain is right now is fine. my personal opinion is that the CD should be longer, but its your hero suggestion XD

its a really cool skill, and it honestly doesn't need any more tweaking. the CD fits well with the amount of damage bonus you get.

Abara is probably Tsutomu's best manga, IMHO. its so KICKASS!
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Old 04-18-2012, 09:51 AM   #7
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

I think more about Feel My Pain. It not shouldn't be too overpowering, but in some circumstances it be able give you power to overcome DPS'er, or regain yours HP after heavy nukes. That's what I'm aimed to.

p.s. already downloaded Abara
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Last edited by NeuroNoise; 04-19-2012 at 11:22 AM.
Old 04-18-2012, 11:01 AM   #8
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

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Originally Posted by Happyorange2 View Post
LOL
Hmm.. all you posts are "LOL"s?..
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Last edited by NeuroNoise; 04-19-2012 at 11:22 AM.
Old 04-19-2012, 11:21 AM   #9
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Bump. Need a feedback.
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Old 04-26-2012, 10:26 AM   #10
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

I like the spells, I was wondering for the third skill so you get bonus damage everytime you are attacked, wouldn't the 2nd hit always be maxed % since after you do your first attack you'll just get damaged and the bonus resets.

Edit: nvm didn't read the cd, cool hero none the less ^^ T-up
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:02 PM   #11
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

bump
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:19 AM   #12
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Nice ,man plz change it to Felbeast Zerling not fiting the icons and story.
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:16 PM   #13
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ognjen19 View Post
Nice ,man plz change it to Felbeast Zerling not fiting the icons and story.
changed.
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

bump
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:14 PM   #15
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Osm really like this hero, my favorite hero so far in suggestions!
I like his base stats and his growth stats, they are perfect.
I get the first, second and fourth skills
But am confused about 'feel my pain!'
can you explain it further, im sorry, i know you have explained it already

What i think you mean; someone hits your hero and the amount of damage he takes, a percentage of that damage is now his damage and he also get a lifesteal orb effect?

What i know you mean; not sure (:
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:23 PM   #16
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

okay i read it again and all i got was life steal inst an orb effect, still dont get the damage bit...
Done he 'reflect' the damage like spectre basically? (because he is hitting them back, basically)
Or is more a block and then what damage he blocked he obtains for a few seconds?
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:30 PM   #17
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Hello and welcome to the PD suggestion forums! First of the introduction is for the hero itself not for the hero suggestion. Fix that or just copy paste your intro outside the template and just leave the intro column blank or you put your intro about the hero itself in it. Do that and I MIGHT give you a review. It just bugs me that people put "their" own intro in the intro section.
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Old 05-30-2012, 02:50 PM   #18
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducks4thewin View Post
okay i read it again and all i got was life steal inst an orb effect, still dont get the damage bit...
Done he 'reflect' the damage like spectre basically? (because he is hitting them back, basically)
Or is more a block and then what damage he blocked he obtains for a few seconds?
About FMP: Praedator receives all damage, not reflecting or blocking it. Being hit by hero attack or cast, he "memorize" amount of received damage (after reductions, ofc), and some percent of that damage will be added as bonus dmg on his next attack. Is it more clear now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cluGAmERsy View Post
Hello and welcome to the PD suggestion forums! First of the introduction is for the hero itself not for the hero suggestion. Fix that or just copy paste your intro outside the template and just leave the intro column blank or you put your intro about the hero itself in it. Do that and I MIGHT give you a review. It just bugs me that people put "their" own intro in the intro section.
Ok, I rework it now..
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Old 05-30-2012, 02:57 PM   #19
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

So he constantly has lifesteal yes?
Yeh, clear now (: thnx
Great idea would be so happy to see him 6.75 :P
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:06 PM   #20
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by ducks4thewin View Post
So he constantly has lifesteal yes?
Yeh, clear now (: thnx
Great idea would be so happy to see him 6.75 :P
Not constantly, this passive have cooldown. Like the Weaver's Geminate Attack.

Let's Praedator have FMP lvl3, and deal X dmg on each attack.

For example, Lina use Laguna Blade lvl1 on Praedator. If passive was on cooldown, you receive damage and won't have any bonuses.
If passive was active, it goes on cd, you receive 450 magical damage (337,5 dmg after reduction), and also you receive (337,5 * 0.65) =~ 219 bonus dmg.
So, you have (X+219) dmg for next attack, and 40% from (X+219) will be lifestealed. Second attack have only half bonus: (X+219/2) = (X+115), and 40% of (X+115) will be lifestealed. Third and other attacks won't have any bonuses, until passive will be triggered again.

Another example: Void hit you with autoattack. It deal 85 physical dmg. If passive was on cooldown, you receive damage and won't have any bonuses.
If passive was active, it goes on cd, you receive 85 physical damage (let it will be 50 dmg after reduction), and also you receive (50 * 0.65) =~ 32 bonus dmg.
So, you have (X+32) dmg for next attack, and 40% from (X+32) will be lifestealed. Second attack have only half bonus: (X+ 32/2) = (X+16), and 40% of (X+16) will be lifestealed. Third and other attacks won't have any bonuses, until passive will be triggered again.

Now it's clear, I think
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:28 AM   #21
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Hi.. This is my review..

Greed Rush:
- Is the damage dealt half of the actual damage? (50% deal when toss, 50% when landing) If yes, that's mean his prey can be survive before landing by his teammates using Meat Hook or whatever..
- Lets maim doesn't staack with Sange or SnY when activate this skill..
Hunter's Jump:
- It's next attack could be 3x AS from its current agility (base agility only, not the additional stats.. 3x could be ideal due to its low agility gain.. but you have the right to change it..)
Feel My Pain:
- How about adding a bash component due to its skill's name. Give a chance for Praedator to bash for 2 seconds (Doesn't stack with Cranium Basher)
Rampage:
- No comment. Looks like a perfect ultimate.

JUST A SUGGESTION. FEEL FREE TO USE IT OR NOT. Thanks..
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Old 05-31-2012, 10:47 AM   #22
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Thanks for you review! I want to discuss some of you offers.
About Greed Rush:
- Look at casting range - it's short enough. That means, Praedator forced to be close to his enemies, when cast is..
- All damage apply, when tossed unit lands, and only tossed unit take it.
- I will change this skill - more landing damage, shorter debuff duration.
- Yes, injure use the same buff, like the Sange/SnY does, so they don't stack.
About Hunter's Jump:
- Wow, cool idea.. really, it make sense! Will be changed.
- You officially going to Thanks tab! Ta-da!
About Fell My Pain:
- I think, it's pretty strong, but not too much. And why not just buy that Basher?
About Rampage:
- Yeah! I like it, too
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Last edited by NeuroNoise; 05-31-2012 at 11:42 AM.
Old 05-31-2012, 11:12 AM   #23
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

NICE!

I liked the way the skills are arranged. Goodjob!

http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=833146
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:07 PM   #24
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeuroNoise View Post
Thanks for you review! I want to discuss some of you offers.
About Greed Rush:
- Look at casting range - it's short enough. That means, Praedator forced to be close to his enemies, when cast is..
- All damage apply, when tossed unit lands, and only tossed unit take it.
- I will change this skill - more landing damage, shorter debuff duration.
- Yes, injure use the same buff, like the Sange/SnY does, so they don't stack.
About Hunter's Jump:
- Wow, cool idea.. really, it make sense! Will be changed.
- You officially going to Thanks tab! Ta-da!
About Fell My Pain:
- I think, it's pretty strong, but not too much. And why not just buy that Basher?
About Rampage:
- Yeah! I like it, too
about feel my pain:
-i think you should add bash in this skill, because its gain more bonus damage if get wounded (like huskar).. So we just wasting money by buying basher and inventory slot..
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:18 PM   #25
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaRcrAFtZonE View Post
about feel my pain:
-i think you should add bash in this skill, because its gain more bonus damage if get wounded (like huskar).. So we just wasting money by buying basher and inventory slot..
I just not want to create another "perma-basher" hero, because it's so boring
I think about it.. hmm..
How about that: chance to disarm&silence enemy for short duration? So, it can only.. run.
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:24 PM   #26
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeuroNoise View Post
I just not want to create another "perma-basher" hero, because it's so boring
I think about it.. hmm..
How about that: chance to disarm&silence enemy for short duration? So, it can only.. run.
ok.. Thats a great idea. And forgot to ask you, about greed rush.. Is it invulnerable during charging?
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:36 PM   #27
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaRcrAFtZonE View Post
ok.. Thats a great idea. And forgot to ask you, about greed rush.. Is it invulnerable during charging?
Praedator blink swiftly to the target, throws it over himself, and charging back. No, only run 1.5 times faster, pushing all enemies 225 AoE around him.
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:41 PM   #28
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeuroNoise View Post
Praedator blink swiftly to the target, throws it over himself, and charging back. No, only run 1.5 times faster, pushing all enemies 225 AoE around him.
ok.. Thanks for accept my suggestion, even though i'm such a newbie dota player.. Trying something new is interesting..
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:43 PM   #29
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaRcrAFtZonE View Post
ok.. Thanks for accept my suggestion, even though i'm such a newbie dota player.. Trying something new is interesting..
Thanks to you!
Yep! It's so.. amazingly interesting!
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Old 05-31-2012, 12:48 PM   #30
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeuroNoise View Post
Thanks to you!
Yep! It's so.. amazingly interesting!
mybe i will post some review later and suggestion, if it not burden you, can i?
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:03 PM   #31
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

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Originally Posted by WaRcrAFtZonE View Post
maybe i will post some review later and suggestion, if it not burden you, can i?
Definitely YES. New ideas is good!
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Old 05-31-2012, 01:11 PM   #32
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

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Originally Posted by NeuroNoise View Post
Definitely YES. New ideas is good!
ok thanks again..
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:58 AM   #33
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Some skills reworks. Guys, need your feedback!
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Old 06-05-2012, 10:10 AM   #34
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Bump
Waiting for a review
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Old 06-08-2012, 11:38 AM   #35
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Bump.
Hey, people! Where are you?
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:35 AM   #36
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

This is the anti-channeling guy or what? Every single one of his skills allows to interrupt channeling spells, and 3 of them are aoe (and counter magic immune, too). I'd say that this is overpowered and should be changed. You don't need the ministun in Hunter's Jump (and it shouldn't be working on magic immune units in the first place).

Also, the bonus damage on Feel my Pain is too high. His laning would be ridiculous (when harassed you can lasthit with 80 damage). Especially with that much lifesteal.
You have to nerf the benfits on early levels quite a bit, and lessen the % of received damage part overall.

Why does pain shock disable attacking, item and spell usage but not motion? Doesn't sound like a shock to me. Dooming people does have some side effects, so you should probably change that to either full disable (stun) or item usage allowed.

For his ultimate, the HP cost shouldn't be able to make him suicide. Either use a percentage of current HP or let it leave him at 1 HP. Also, why use a dummy unit? Give him lots of armor and a 98% magic resistance ability, that'll work. Using a dummy unit won't work well. You can't simply copy the disable to the hero. And it just makes no sense to use a dummy unit, because it serves no special purpose.
Also, i would probably cancel the ultimate everytime i cast it. 30 dmg/AS aren't good enough to lose 24% health for, especially if you can't control your hero. I know there is some synergy with your passive here, but i'd just use the entangle and damage. Think about it, it has same effect, almost same damage, same range and same duration, less cooldown and less manacost than Overgrowth! And that's only the first part of it that happens instantly...
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Last edited by MauranKilom; 06-10-2012 at 11:32 AM.
Old 06-10-2012, 10:45 AM   #37
NeuroNoise
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Quote:
Originally Posted by MauranKilom View Post
This is the anti-channeling guy or what?

Anyways, why does pain shock disable attacking, item and spell usage but not motion? Dooming people does have some side effects, so you should probably change that to either full disable (stun) or item usage allowed.
That was the point. Enemy can only.. run That's all.

You can save allies/yourself from enemy chanelling spells. And BKB not prevent it (for Jump, ofc).
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Old 11-02-2012, 01:50 AM   #38
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Default Re: [Scourge - Str] PRAEDATOR, The Ripping Beast

Made a lot of reworks. Need your opinion.
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