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Old 05-02-2012, 10:17 AM   #1
john_wilan
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Default Lanaya + Buriza


When Lanaya with Buriza goes Meld and Attack Enemy Hero and when she attacks the Crit of buriza procs, both of the damage will be applied or will one crit over ride another and which critical will be used.
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:23 AM   #2
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

Meld's damage is triggered and is not a Critical.
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Last edited by Darkmeplez; 05-02-2012 at 10:31 AM. Reason: It ain't a backstab ;)
Old 05-02-2012, 10:24 AM   #3
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

Her meld-attack is not a crit (although the red number shows up). So they stack perfectly fine. The crit damage from buriza is added to her attack, so it will be spilled, too.

Edit: It's also not a backstab. It's just triggered physical damage and a -armor ability added to the target. Nothing about it is hardcoded (except for the invisibility itself. But that one also has triggers associated for the non-move part).
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:37 AM   #4
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

Thanks
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:44 AM   #5
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

I think that it check if target takes a damage, then deal 200 dmg and - armor effect, because Lanaya doesn't have any damage dealing spells. But what if you Meld and dagon the target?
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:52 AM   #6
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

I just tested it in single player and you can't buriza crit on the meld strike.

I got 6 burizas hit a big neutral and killed it in one hit every time i got a crit.
Then i tried meld striking the big neutral a bunch of times with 6 burizas still and I never once killed it in one hit on the meld strike.
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:09 AM   #7
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

^True,I tested on Single Player,dint get 1 crit with Meld on

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic View Post
I think that it check if target takes a damage, then deal 200 dmg and - armor effect, because Lanaya doesn't have any damage dealing spells. But what if you Meld and dagon the target?
You'll just come out of Meld and dagon your target
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:17 AM   #8
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic View Post
I think that it check if target takes a damage, then deal 200 dmg and - armor effect, because Lanaya doesn't have any damage dealing spells. But what if you Meld and dagon the target?
What do you mean?
Meld and dagon are completely different, did you mean psi blades?
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:31 PM   #9
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

No.
The triggers can't accurately detect when your attack hits. Thus it checks when lanaya starts an attack, and then detects when lanaya deals damage to her target. This is assumed to be the attack, but if you start an attack from meld and dagon the target before the attack hits, the effects50*level damage, -armor, red text of Meld will be applied earlier.

Since meld is based on windwalk, the attack that breaks out of it will be a buffplacer that overrides any critical strike.

Conclusion: You can't crit on the attack breaking meld.
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Old 05-02-2012, 02:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

^ Thanks. And let's break your 3,333 posts
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:02 PM   #11
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

Quote:
Originally Posted by MauranKilom View Post
Edit: It's also not a backstab.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MauranKilom View Post
Since meld is based on windwalk
So, is Meld a windwalk backstab or not?
Can't you come to agree with yourself on this one?
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

It's true that Meld is based on windwalk, However the backstab damage deals 0 damage. While the real damage50/100/150/200 is triggered.
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:16 PM   #13
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

You're right.

Why was the ability coded like this instead of just being a standard backstab?
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:18 PM   #14
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

Because meld also lowers the armor of the enemy.
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:28 PM   #15
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond123 View Post
Because meld also lowers the armor of the enemy.
Yeah but will the armor reduction affect the target before or after the Meld damage? Couldn't it be a big standard backstab damage with the armor reduction part added via trigger instead of both events applied by triggers?
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:31 PM   #16
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

I guess this should answer all your questions regarding Meld:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordshinjo View Post
Actually, what happens is:
1. Meld -armor applied
2. Meld damage dealt
3. Desolator -armor applied
4. Attack damage applied


Note that this means that the linked thread is false, because DracoLich's argument is false when Lanaya has Desolator. (the damage that procs Meld is actually a 0 damage instance corresponding to Desolator placing its buff, and not Lanaya's attack damage)

When Lanaya doesn't have Desolator, (or Orb of Venom, Eye of Skadi, or Maelstrom/Mjollnir that happens to proc on the Meld attack), what happens is:
1. Attack Damage
2. Meld -armor
3. Meld damage
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:40 PM   #17
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

This answers half of my question. I still don't know why was it coded like this (Meld damage delivered via trigger, instead of just being a standard backstab).
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Old 05-02-2012, 03:57 PM   #18
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

Quote:
Originally Posted by Star_Saber View Post
Yeah but will the armor reduction affect the target before or after the Meld damage? Couldn't it be a big standard backstab damage with the armor reduction part added via trigger instead of both events applied by triggers?
The armor reduction is after the meld usage and it has a duration of 10 seconds, so it cannot be really put on the same level with backstab since both have two different meanings. Furthermore, I see backstabbing as part of breaking your heroes invisibility walking but meld is broken by moving.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:13 PM   #19
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

^You didn't get the point.

I suppose Icefrog deemed it imbalanced if you could lifesteal off of a +200 damage attack.
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:01 PM   #20
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

Quote:
Originally Posted by MauranKilom View Post
^You didn't get the point.

I suppose Icefrog deemed it imbalanced if you could lifesteal off of a +200 damage attack.
Really? I thought it's the simple fact that Lanaya is RANGE and Backstab is consider the same as crit on range so on Meld attack she can't place a buff if it's done as a 200dmg WW.
http://www.playdota.com/mechanics/Orb_Effects

Sorta like why Bounty's WW is changed to trigger to do bonus damage so he can actually crit with jinada out of WW.
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I don't see a sword here.
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:41 PM   #21
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

Meld and BH ww aside, do you lifesteal off the backstab damage from Lothar's or Vendetta or the ladder "run of the mill" windwalk?
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:16 AM   #22
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Default Re: Lanaya + Buriza

Except Lanaya still has a backstab, just the backstab deals 0 damage.

The obvious reason to trigger the damage is to make it benefit from the armor reduction. This is similar to how other abilities work (e.g. reducing stats before dealing damage).

E: Didn't notice above post. Yes, you lifesteal off hardcoded backstabs.
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Last edited by EebstertheGreat; 05-03-2012 at 06:47 AM.
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