Armor Piercing Crits

[sumthingsup]

I would ask at the programming section, but seeing that i have no knowledge of coding, that someone posted a while ago here that it took a month before he got a reply, and the fact that the last post there was dated almost a week ago, i posted it here.

Originally Posted by sumthingsup

a lot of skills nowadays are weird version of previous ones. things like that can be overlooked into.

my buff to CdG: CdG Crits ignore some percent of armor, and deal some percent of max hp of target. or atleast make it an agha effect.
(not affecting item crits)
numbers can be debated, but i know people will flame, hence, no numbers.

Is this code-able? The armor piercing and the HP-shredding on Crits? I assume the HP shredding would be like feast, but is it code-able that it would only work on crits?


P.S. if you would look at the next post, you would see that he said that i should ask, hence i asked.

[RoflCat]

Technically, yes.

You'd basically make a trigger similar to what Basher use:
% random
on proc, give the target a short term armor debuff (specific value is calculated from the target's items/stats), as well as a 100% chance to crit for said multiplier) and does % of max HP in damage.

The armor reduction part is probably the most complicated.

For example, make a faerie fire-based skill with 30 levels, -1 armor on each.
Let's say the armor reduction is 20%
The trigger would go through all the buffs/stats of the target.
Base armor + Agi/7 + Armor on items + Armor from buffs - negative armor from debuffs, then take a percentage of that.
(the split from items and buffs should prevent some items with aura from getting double negative, like 2 ACuirass would count as 4 and then 1 more from aura)
(Counting debuffs would also prevent them from getting further -armor if they have Valor debuff from Medallion of Courage)
After that, rounds up or down the result and apply that level of the faerie fire (and not cast anything if the target's already in negative armor)?

[sumthingsup]

oh ok, ok cool. thanks.

[chukky-jr]

Originally Posted by RoflCat

For example, make a faerie fire-based skill with 30 levels, -1 armor on each.
Let's say the armor reduction is 20%

wouldn't it be better using Devotion Aura with negative percentage? i thought that is what used by Natural Order ignoring 20/40/60/80% armor, if i get what OP is asking

[CynthiaCrescent]

Originally Posted by chukky-jr

wouldn't it be better using Devotion Aura with negative percentage? i thought that is what used by Natural Order ignoring 20/40/60/80% armor, if i get what OP is asking

An aura is an aura, and can have rather undesirable side effects.

[Steric]

Natural Order also does not detect bonus armor from items.

One possibility would be have a trigger cause 1 physical damage to the target (after removing temporarily all Damage Blocks like Kraken Shell and Stout Shield, and turning off triggered heals like Dispersion and Aphotic Shield) and check how much the unit's life actually dropped. Then cause additional pure damage that would account for the armor of the target on the actual attack. The drawbacks of this method is that you cause a single instance of test damage (although I don't think that actually matters much) and that the bonus damage wouldn't truly be an attack, so it wouldn't be Cleaved by Battlefury or heal Mortred if she has Lifesteal.

I don't think actually changing the target's armor to 0 works well because this would have to be done before Mortred's attack actually causes damage (it would be too late if it waited for damage to be dealt) and therefore the target will have zero armor during the foreswing of Mortred's attack. This means that if the victim is attacked by something else while Mortred is mid-attack, the extra attack will also be "armor-piercing"

As for knowing when the hero crits, the method RoflCat mentioned works (although it removes PRD, which could forcibly be re-added though).

[chukky-jr]

Originally Posted by CynthiaCrescent

An aura is an aura, and can have rather undesirable side effects.

i don't see why, adding it directly using hidden spellbook doesn't seem to be problematic, so far Sven's Warcry works well

Originally Posted by Steric

Natural Order also does not detect bonus armor from items.

the only problem i can think of, what about Orb of Corruption? since it takes the armor reduction into account before damage is calculated (cmiiw, like Desolator?)

about RoflCat's method, is it 30 level of Faerie Fire or 30 instance of Faerie Fire based abilities? the later works fine, but a single ability with 30 level is very laggy iirc

[SoletLuna]

Regardless, Programming is still the section to go.

[Sasho1233]

Originally Posted by chukky-jr

wouldn't it be better using Devotion Aura with negative percentage? i thought that is what used by Natural Order ignoring 20/40/60/80% armor, if i get what OP is asking

Yes, it is used. But the aura only reduces the starting armor of the unit (lvl 1 armor + initial). There is another trigger that reduces armor by 1 for every 7 points of agility the unit has.

Originally Posted by CynthiaCrescent

An aura is an aura, and can have rather undesirable side effects.

Auras work fine as long as they have different buffs. Like I explained above, a simple aura would not be enough though.

On Topic:
Doable and as mentioned it requires a system that will check the unit's armor because there is no such function in Warcraft 3's World Editor. And as mentioned in the Big List of Uncodeable Things it will not be done. IceFrog is too lazy to implement such systems even though they could have made a very big difference to the map.

[twoeyedyum]

On Topic:
Doable and as mentioned it requires a system that will check the unit's armor because there is no such function in Warcraft 3's World Editor. And as mentioned in the Big List of Uncodeable Things it will not be done. IceFrog is too lazy to implement such systems even though they could have made a very big difference to the map.

+1
If anyone have seen YouTD map (made be GeX), there are some towers with "ignore % of armor" ability. And it works fully - so if target has +250 armor bonus, it properly ignores, let's say, 40% of it too. I just think it takes in consideration actual attack damage, and then compares it with dealt damage (and adds some "pure" damage to compensate reduction).

As far as i would understand, it requires vJass.

[MauranKilom]

Originally Posted by twoeyedyum

As far as i would understand, it requires vJass.

Nothing in wc3 requires vJass, because the script itself is in Jass nevertheless. It just provides some additional tools.


The suggestion is "codeable in wc3" and "uncodeable in DotA". Ofcourse you can build your map in way that keeps track of all armor bonuses (and lets you adjust them in any shape or form), but that's not the case for DotA.

In DotA, you cannot reliably detect the (realbefore armor/damage block) attack damage of a unit. Therefore, manually coding (triggering) crits to bypass a part of the armor already fails here.
There are more issues though: You can't (as of now) reliably detect the armor value of a unit without a (whole) lot of work, so neither reducing it nor dealing additional damage is an option.
You wouldn't be able to lifesteal off of the damage that bypasses armor if you were to deal additional damage (in order to ignore armor), nor could you cleave it etc.
Reducing the armor of the target could have other effects (like even more damage from penitence).