Axe! When is he a good pick?

[Lollypatrolly]

Axe doesn't have 30 armor all the time, only for a few seconds after making his initiation (initiation which can be ruined by Naga illusions spamming riptide without ever putting her in harms way, for one).

That said, Axe's low armor after his initiation is done is more of a weakness against ranged heroes and really hard hitters like Naix, less so against illusions based heroes like Naga.

[5chneemensch]

you're the one making yourself an idiot here, go check mechanics, learn how damage block works and get your facts straight.

Enlighten me.
Low armor and dmg block is retarded.
The effectiveness of dmg block increases exponentially with your amount of armor.

You call Call's +30 bonus armor "shit armor", now I know who out of us is the true idiot. Way to go, bro. I seriously stopped reading here. You're officially a sucker now.

Axe won't be able to kill Slith.
After the 3 sec, Axe is sucked dry and about to die.

Dude, you making yourself your own grave.

[Star_Saber]

Originally Posted by 5chneemensch

Enlighten me.
Low armor and dmg block is retarded.

OK you clown, read this. Damage block takes preference before armor.
This means that, even if you have low armor, damage block will work npnp.
Even if you have negative armor, damage block from a melee Vanguard will still block 40 dmg. Damage block can't be reduced like armor can.
And besides, you can't really call 30 armor on top of Axe's base armor "low armor", unless the Axe was retard enough to not use Call when he is under attack.

The effectiveness of dmg block increases exponentially with your amount of armor.

This has been discussed a million times. Armor increases the number of attacks the target can take and thus the number of blocked attacks. But otherwise armor isn't related to damage block.

The hard fact is that since damage block has priority over armor, even if you have low armor or even negative armor you'll block a great deal of the damage you're taking. Also because Naga's DPS stems from her illusions, but her illusions do reduced damage (45% of her base damage + bonus damage coming from her AGI each) the end result is that a hero with melee Vanguard takes very little damage from illusions.
Let's say Naga's total attack damage is 100.
Each of Naga's illusions will be dealing 45 damage. (with Mirror Image level 4)
Vanguard will block 40 damage each time it proc's.
the target hero (Axe in this case) will be taking 45 - 40 = 5 damage from each illusion each time Vang's damage block procs. 5 damage. Virtually NOTHING.
And I'm not even accounting for Call's +30 armor which will further reduce it.

Axe won't be able to kill Slith.
After the 3 sec, Axe is sucked dry and about to die.
Dude, you making yourself your own grave.

Why do you like making a clown out of yourself? After those 3 seconds, Naga's illusions will be gone (don't forget illusions take 300% damage), and Naga herself will eat a lot of Helixes and will have suffered significant damage. After that, Hunger/Culling, and if she can't use Song by then she'll be probably dead.
Hell, Naga might even be dead already if her HP was low enough after taking a million Counter Helixes and ate a Hunger after her illusions were gone, even if she tried to escape with Song.

thanks for making yourself look like an idiot, I feel even more awesome now.

[Lollypatrolly]

Why do you like making a clown out of yourself? After those 3 seconds, Naga's illusions will be gone, and Naga herself will eat a lot of Helixes and will have suffered significant damage.

What kind of useless retard Naga walks around NEXT TO her own images trying to tank down an Axe with Berserker's Call ready? Naga is a hero that is actually VERY effective against axe initiation since he can only shut down part of her damage (choosing to target either the illusions or the main hero with his blink, since they're never at the same place), she builds mainly tank items early and has high armor vs helix and won't ever die to Battlehunger.

The only situation in which Naga illusions will die to Helix is if Axe wastes his Call on them instead of heroes, leaving him wide open to initiation by the enemy team.

[Star_Saber]

Originally Posted by Lollypatrolly

That said, Axe's low armor after his initiation is done is more of a weakness against ranged heroes and really hard hitters like Naix, less so against illusions based heroes like Naga.

Axe's low armor shows up only after his Call has expired. And Naga's DPS without her illusions is nothing. All he has to do is to endure the punishment from her 3-5 illusions (5 illusions when she has Manta, 3 if she doesn't) and after that she can't do shit on him. Helixes will shred her illusions in those 3 seconds of Call. after that, the loss of those 30 armor doesn't really matter. She can't do anything except trying to flee. But then Hunger shows up.

Originally Posted by Lollypatrolly

What kind of useless retard Naga walks around NEXT TO her own images trying to tank down an Axe with Berserker's Call ready?

So tell me what in Earth can a Naga do against an Axe that has a Dagger already to prevent his initiation? unless the Axe was a retard and let himself be trapped by Ensnare, and even in that case she can't really touch him.

[Lollypatrolly]

You're aware of Riptide, right? Illusions can prevent any blinker from initiating if they're used properly.

Furthermore, Naga is never located at the same position as her images, they're always split into two groups. Images are sent at heroes that need to be killed (not axe), main hero either on another target or just playing with positioning if enemy initiation is scary.

[Star_Saber]

And as Naga you're willing to waste your illusions, your only means of dealing massive DPS, to prevent an Axe from initiating with Dagger? Sounds like a good trade for Axe's team already.
What can Naga do WITHOUT her illusions? Riptide? Riptide is not as strong as other nukes per se, and requires quite some mana pool/regen to sustain spammage. Yes Riptide reduces armor, but without good DPS to capitalize on that armor reduction you're puting it to waste.

[Star_Saber]

Double post

[5chneemensch]

And Naga's DPS without her illusions is nothing.

WAHAHAHAHHA!
You are either a fucking idot, or have some mental disability.

You DO realize Slith is in the top 5 of highest endstats, not counting MS, and Armor.

[Star_Saber]

I don't think you have the slightest idea on how DPS works. You've already proven yourself ignorant of how damage block works, you've already implied silly ideas such as that 30 armor would be shit and with each post you type you're sinking yourself even more. I wonder what you think you're doing here other than making me laugh.

[blqqk]

step 1 pick axe in garena (any room)
step 2 make 50 kills
step 3 win the game within 15 mins

if u dont do that u are noob :?

[5chneemensch]

The one being ignorant is you.
And the one who started flaming was you too.

>Implying flaming helps in a discussion

[Mlcrosoft]

dont worry saber we all noticed this guy with some girl laughing as avatar has some issues. Always come ups with some brilliant trash talk with 0 backup

also ot: who cares about the naga pro axe will always come to an end against her.

[5chneemensch]

also ot: who cares about the naga pro axe will always come to an end against her.

Facts please.

[jyzzy]

Originally Posted by 5chneemensch

Facts please.

Vanguard is your fact.

[5chneemensch]

Vanguard won't protect you from Slith.

Well, maybe you, but not your game.

[Amples]

On-topic: Axe has his place on pushing lineups, as he can perform as the initiator as well as a creep-clearer. Or even an aura-strat.

Off-topic: Vanguard neutralizes Naga's DPS spell (by beating her illusions without batting a sweat), however, Naga still has her other 3 spells to contribute, and even if Naga had shitty endstats ala Slark she's still good. Vanguard or no Vanguard Axe will have trouble against Naga.

Any smart Slithice would have her illusions at a different area. But initiating on Slithice herself *may* prevent the awesome setup that is Song of the Siren. Better lose some HP now from illusions than take a well-placed AoE shitstorm.

And I personally believe that a Silencer+follow up initiation counters Naga more.

And people who misunderstand damage block might wanna read this...

[Star_Saber]

Originally Posted by Amples

Any smart Slithice would have her illusions at a different area.

the times when I split my illusions as Naga is when I intend to confuse enemies, but not really for fight. Splitting illusions and sending them to different places means Naga'd be dealing reduced damage to individual targets.

[Amples]

Originally Posted by Star_Saber

the times when I split my illusions as Naga is when I intend to confuse enemies, but not really for fight. Splitting illusions and sending them to different places means Naga'd be dealing reduced damage to individual targets.

I should have clarified.

I do that when my goal is to be an annoyance even in the worst-case scenario that somebody initiates on me with some spell (like Impale for example) or when I "harass" with Riptide. But when the goal is to DPS then you'd ought to be whacking, as a good amount of your DPS still comes from Naga herself (at least 40%). That leaves you vulnerable to most, if not all, AoE stuns, though.

Most of the time though I do the initiating with Song anyway, as it's so powerful. I sometimes mix it up by sending my hero among the "illusion bait" to land Song on everyone.