For those who's craving for Dota 2 desperately

[ShowThemHell]

Originally Posted by ralje

You can benefit from it, as long as there is no direct interaction, or you don't live in the usa. I live in bulgaria please arrest me, rofl.
Even more if you make it so that some national company here profits from it you're more safe than ever. Donations for ingame items etc. through sms.

If Valve decides to sue kt, they will lose more than they gain.

[Xmarksthegank]

Originally Posted by jyzzy

Absolutely legal as long as it's free.

I would recommend, for your sake and the sake of your friends and family, that you do not offer legal advice on a professional level.

There are two common misconceptions about intellectual property rights that you see amongst fans almost any given game:

1. I'm not using the assets directly from the game, so I'm not stealing intellectual property.

2. I'm not trying to make a profit, so I'm not stealing intellectual property.

The first is a misconception, in that it only takes the second half of the term "intellectual property" into consideration. The word "intellectual" implies that the ownership extends beyond merely the literal assets themselves, but to the idea (for lack of a better word) tied to the assets. If I say "The Master Chief is copyright for Microsoft and Bungie," I'm not referring to just the model and textures. I mean the Master Chief, the character written to be the protagonist of the video game series Halo, and everything that makes him who he is."

So, before the usual "omg, so, if I make a guy with green armor Microsoft can sue me" complaints arise, let me point out that "a guy in green armor" is not "Master Chief from Halo." There's a difference.

The second item I mentioned is the issue of profit. Generally, people believe that, so long as they're not trying make money by selling their work, they fall within the bounds of fair use. This is, in fact, not true. Ultimately, regardless of whether you are selling your work or not, you're still distributing someone else's intellectual property. Whether or not it is in their best interests to stop you is entirely up to the owner of said property.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/13/ms...n-mod-why-now/

http://cathodetan.blogspot.fi/2006/0...e-lecture.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPlbEB2KCqc

[Lord_Talron]

http://cathodetan.blogspot.fi/2006/0...e-lecture.html

cliffjeff said...
You can't claim to know more about fair use than the entire US legal system. Cases like this are debated in courts every year, and so every year new things can be or can no longer be considered fair use. It is not so cut-and-dried or cases similar to this would never make it to trial.

There's four factors taken into account when deciding whether something is infringement or fair use:

1) "the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes." First off, the mod isn't commercial so that DOES help the case for it. You could also argue that the mod is using the IP for 'scholorship' in that they're using it as a means to learn programming/game design. If the mod were a parody, that would also help its case in this department; maybe the mod team should consider making it one =p

2) "the nature of the copyrighted work." This is a foggy one but basically favors copying nonfiction, especially for education, and counts against copying fiction. No real defense in this department, but then again, most fair use cases involve fiction/creative works anyway so Halogen is not exactly alone.

3) "the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole." To be honest, I know little about the mod. If it DOES copy and extend the plot of the games, including things like Master Chief, that counts against it. If it just uses the basic look of the units and vehicles and nothing more, that's not as big a deal.

4) "the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work." I'm sure Microsoft would try to argue, "If we didn't shut down this mod, people would get it for free instead of buying our game." That would never happen. No one had even HEARD of this mod before the news of MS shutting it down. The official game would have come out and still no one would know about the mod. Also, it's a completely different game, and though it appears to have been high quality, I'm sure it would not have been the slightest competition to Microsoft's real RTS game. If anything, it probably would have whetted people's appetite for a full Halo RTS and encouraged them to buy the real game.

all in all, I think they have a pretty good case for fair use.

microsoft strongarming their way around does not prove your point.

[slasherboy89]

If any of you know about this, there was a case where there was a mod for C&C Generals Zero Hour that remodels the units to Halo units. The mod was called 'Halogen' and it was available for free.

When Microsoft knew about this, they started a lawsuit that demands that they stop distributing this mod since they were going to come up with their own RTS Halo game. The modders did not gain anything and I don't think Microsoft sue them for any money, they just demanded to remove the mod.

So, even if this mod doesn't gain any monetary profit whatsoever, it will most likely be removed soon enough since this mod will indirectly 'steal' a percentage of the potential Dota 2 playerbase despite the fact that Dota 2 is free.

[Xmarksthegank]

Why don't you check up the reply?

No, but I can claim that I've actually talked to a company who have defended their IP in the past. I'm also quite familiar with many similar mod cases and how they end. All four of the points you've brought up have been debated to death online.

It's never mattered. They don't have a case. But again, I'm not a lawyer. Don't believe me - go ask one. I know a mod project that did. Their lawyer told them the exact same thing I'm telling you.

Although you do bring one point I've always wondered about - parodies. AFAIK nobody has tried to create a true parody mod and see if that sticks.

Also - it's terribly easy to create a "like" mod. You just can't make it too similar. Lots of projects have survived this way, though. If that's the strategy though - you gotta do it at the beginning of the project. These guys probably have tons of assets that are essentially scrap now. You can't make a "like" mod with vehicles that look exactly like warthogs, etc.

Which - btw - is another reason to talk to the company first. If they're favorable to the project ... they sometimes share professional assets. Troopers got some amazing stuff from LucasFilm once they had reach and agreement.

Other than that the only choice is to never advertise it, never distribute it. That's practically impossible in this day and age of mod development though - it's essentially requires both just to try and get the job done.

None of these "circumventation tactics" are not used in wardota 2.

They're used in Dota 2, if you compare it to Warcraft 3 assets. And even then, I firmly believe that Valve and Blizzard have had extensive discussions regarding this.

[sunnymarcell]

Originally Posted by slasherboy89

Sorry, but Gyrocopter will not shout "HOLY SHIT! It's Viper!" in there. So, no.

or viper "Holy shit! It's... me!"

[Life-Stealer]

Meh.

[Cymen]

VALVe will not sue you, I think. But they have the right to, AFAIK. Just look at this recent example:
Skyrim ‘Middle Earth’ Mod Hit With Cease & Desist from Warner Bros.

[LemonCrusader]

Originally Posted by jyzzy

Absolutely legal as long as it's free.

It doesn't quite work that way. Just because something is free doesn't make it any more legal to rip off someone else work.


Although I doubt Valve cares about a non-profit mod that nobody is going to play anyway.