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Old 07-17-2013, 03:48 PM   #1
MonkeyEx
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Default BKB


Personally I find it annoying that bkb is a "must-get" item for most carries (except for a few like naix or pl). imo it's a problem when most carries are too dependant on bkb to perform their job.
ofc you've seen competitive games where there are 4-5 bkbs in the game (the highest I've seen was 7)

the item recently just got nerfed (or buffed for you trolls who say the cd is reduced at the 6th use) again and it's been nerfed quite sometimes. the sad part is that even after being nerfed, this item will still be core and necessary for a lot of carries.

what do you think? personally, I think having a secondary alternative to bkb would be nice (linken's not doing the job as you can see), probably a carry upgrade for hood of defiance for situations where the enemy team has a lot of magic damage but not so much disables or for tanky carries/anti-carries.
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Last edited by MonkeyEx; 07-17-2013 at 04:56 PM.
Old 07-17-2013, 04:22 PM   #2
wesai
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Default Re: BKB



Although I admit that those heroes are forgotten simply because items do what they do best, so they can be easily replaced.

I would like to have an upgrade to Vanguard to be honest. That would be awesome (and hard to balance!).
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: BKB

I hate bkb. It's not a fun item.
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:40 PM   #4
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Default Re: BKB

I personally think its a no brainer item. Also no other item has such a gamebreaking effect as bkb does, really wouldnt mind if it got nerfed even more
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:41 PM   #5
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Default Re: BKB

its needed or else heroes with nukes and stuns would dominate even harder than now and u see 5 man aoe disabler nuker teams only. BKB is a needed item on most carries and even on heroes like magnus. It gives crappy stats for the gold and the active goes low on duration fast. Also there are many disables that counter BKB and kiting + mobility, ghoststaff, forcestaff and shit let you kite bkbed carries (meeles mostly).

And even with BKB the rule nr.1 of dota is still "disables>all".
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: BKB

I believe Pipe exists for a reason. My point is, if carry fails, supports will assume the role.

Assuming the support is Good Guy Greg.
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:50 PM   #7
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Default Re: BKB

I hate this new meta. It forces carries to make bkb too early. Morphling PT BKB and Mirana Phase BKB 20 min. Seriously? It just seems anti fun because they deal 0 dmg with rushed BKB but do it just to survive fights rather than winning fights. And then everyone, from #1 to #3, make a BKB. The only victims are #4 & 5 because they contribute literally nothing to teamfights. Every fight, it's just a bunch of magic immune douches right-clicking each other.

Let's make BKB a really luxury item, so that it becomes an option for hard carries but not everyone. Like relic + 1300 recipe (5200 total) for 60 dmg and magic immunity for 10/9/8/7/6/5. Good luck farming 3800, supports.
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Old 07-17-2013, 05:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: BKB

There should be more items that allow people to deal with magic damage and/or stuns and I believe that an item that would negate stun/slow effects while still applying damage from the spells would be a nice start.
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Old 07-17-2013, 06:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: BKB

What if BKB removed 1 disable (no roar etc) and after the use you would be immune to other CC for let's say, 2 seconds ? It would help against mass stuns stacking and gives time for your team to react / position your self
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Old 07-17-2013, 08:31 PM   #10
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Default Re: BKB

This is so true, I'm surprised this issue isn't discussed on more regular basis or is farming suddenly fun now? A BKB rush has become so important for carries that it takes away the fun. I mean they don't deal whole lot of damage to actually capitalize on the survivability from magic immunity, except on the part that they can continue safe farming.
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:05 PM   #11
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Default Re: BKB

I agree with this. Why is this stupid item even in the game. They should make items more interesting and require some thinking before you buy or use them. BKB is just anti-fun. It turns items like Pipe or Linkens into trash, and it's required on almost every carry hero because of the big power creep in CC durations and nuke damage.
When I see there is a Nyx in the enemy team dealing more than 2000 damage within 10 seconds of a clash, I see already that I need a BKB, when there is a Lion it's the same, and it's not only when I play OD.
It's just a lame concept that severely hurts the variety of the game by strictly requireing you to buy this item instead of letting you choose how you'd like to play.
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Old 07-17-2013, 09:34 PM   #12
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Default Re: BKB

People have always been looking at it the wrong way.

The problem is not in BKB or carry heroes. It's in how freaking strong chain stun/slow are. It's so strong and so popular that you are forced to buy a counter for it every game.

Fundamentally changing BKB shall result in a nerf of 80% DotA heroes.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:00 AM   #13
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Default BKB is becoming the Old Dagger

For those who didn't play DOTA many years ago, here's the MEMO.

Blink Dagger used to be "a little bit OP". By that I mean, you can basically use it anytime. It was not disabled by incoming damage. If you think spending 2150g to become Anti-Mage is a good deal, let me tell ya indeed it is. There was such a dagger pandemia that IceFrog finally had enough of it. He threw down the mightiest nerf-stick in DOTA history: The Blink Dagger Nerf.

My point is: BKB is having the same situation.

3900g to turn your hero into Lifestealer is just a DOTA player's wet dream. The dream gets wetter - spending 3300g will make you BETTER than Lifestealer. Given the fact that most BKBs are purchased between 10-30min, 10 sec magic immunity is the definition of what's ridiculous.

Call me a troll, but I think BKB deserves the Old Dagger Nerf. The biggest damage it's doing to DOTA is really shutting down the item build variety on so many heroes. If DOTA could survive as a balanced game after the Old Dagger Nerf, a BKB nerf should be just fine.
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Last edited by Anura; 07-18-2013 at 01:06 AM. Reason: Type Fixed: BKB costs 3900g, not 3300g.
Old 07-18-2013, 01:03 AM   #14
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Default Re: BKB is becoming the Old Dagger

3900g*
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:03 AM   #15
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Default Re: BKB is becoming the Old Dagger

are you mad again because ur enemies bought bkbs against ur invoker?
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:03 AM   #16
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Default Re: BKB is becoming the Old Dagger

And dont forget that, the duration of your bkb will decrease 1 sec each time you use it until the min duration---> 4 secs.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:05 AM   #17
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Default Re: BKB is becoming the Old Dagger

your math is wrong...so lifestealer's skill has a 60 sec cooldown and bkb increases attack speed?
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:05 AM   #18
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Default Re: BKB is becoming the Old Dagger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anura View Post
3300g
And it started so promising...
Besides, the Dagger nerf was and is still overrated.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:05 AM   #19
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Default Re: BKB is becoming the Old Dagger

until you use it 6 times
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:08 AM   #20
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Default Re: BKB is becoming the Old Dagger

It's Force Staff, the most imbalanced item and shouldn't ever exist in this kind of game. It's making heroes that have no blink-like skills useless, it will force them to get blink dagger as well to chase these cowards
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:09 AM   #21
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Default Re: BKB is becoming the Old Dagger

Quote:
Originally Posted by FairyTailz View Post
And dont forget that, the duration of your bkb will decrease 1 sec each time you use it until the min duration---> 4 secs.
I realized that. But that's the problem, because it means the first 5 times you use it it lasts 10/9/8/7/6 sec. The results of most deathball clashes are determined in way less than 10 sec.

Most items increase/decrease your chance of winning a team fight. This item basically guarantees it.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:20 AM   #22
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Default Re: BKB is becoming the Old Dagger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anura View Post
I realized that. But that's the problem, because it means the first 5 times you use it it lasts 10/9/8/7/6 sec. The results of most deathball clashes are determined in way less than 10 sec.

Most items increase/decrease your chance of winning a team fight. This item basically guarantees it.
so getting bkb is an auto win guys...

you heard it here first

so omniknight is basically the most op hero ever created
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:26 AM   #23
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Default Re: BKB is becoming the Old Dagger

BKB first tears down a carries farming potential depending who the hero is or the type. It's not that OP given most fights take longer than 10 seconds.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:36 AM   #24
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Default Re: BKB is becoming the Old Dagger

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpertMarksman View Post
It's Force Staff, the most imbalanced item and shouldn't ever exist in this kind of game. It's making heroes that have no blink-like skills useless, it will force them to get blink dagger as well to chase these cowards
This guy's right. Force staff is still a bit ridiculous imo. I think it needs another nerf. Heroes should not be able to be forcestaff'd twice consecutively.

Example:Carry 1 gets caught out by a stun but is facing his own base. Support 1 forcestaff's him away. Support 2 forcestaff's him even further.

That, or I still think it needs a range nerf when using it on ally heroes.
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:39 AM   #25
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Default Re: BKB is becoming the Old Dagger

Yes, omni is OP if you play him as carry and only use your skills for yourself, most noobs tend to play support Omni, that's why they fail miserably
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:53 AM   #26
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Default Re: BKB is becoming the Old Dagger

BKB was not that broken when tinker can rearm it and last 10s.......
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Old 07-18-2013, 01:56 AM   #27
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Default Re: BKB is becoming the Old Dagger

so you want bkb disabled for 3 secs after incoming damage?
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:08 AM   #28
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Default Re: BKB is becoming the Old Dagger

Wouldn't nerfing Bkb to oblivion cause everyone to just pick heros with lots of stuns/disables and the team who has the most disables win (which would be the reason why Bkb is so popular)?
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:20 AM   #29
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Default Re: BKB is becoming the Old Dagger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anura View Post
For those who didn't play DOTA many years ago, here's the MEMO.

Blink Dagger used to be "a little bit OP". By that I mean, you can basically use it anytime. It was not disabled by incoming damage. If you think spending 2150g to become Anti-Mage is a good deal, let me tell ya indeed it is. There was such a dagger pandemia that IceFrog finally had enough of it. He threw down the mightiest nerf-stick in DOTA history: The Blink Dagger Nerf.

My point is: BKB is having the same situation.

3900g to turn your hero into Lifestealer is just a DOTA player's wet dream. The dream gets wetter - spending 3300g will make you BETTER than Lifestealer. Given the fact that most BKBs are purchased between 10-30min, 10 sec magic immunity is the definition of what's ridiculous.

Call me a troll, but I think BKB deserves the Old Dagger Nerf. The biggest damage it's doing to DOTA is really shutting down the item build variety on so many heroes. If DOTA could survive as a balanced game after the Old Dagger Nerf, a BKB nerf should be just fine.
10 secs is only for the 1st bkb usage.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:46 AM   #30
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Default Re: BKB is becoming the Old Dagger

You think BKB is bad now? How about when it only had 5 stages of decrease? Or a few versions before that when you could sell it and buy a new one with full power for effectively half the price?
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