Pushing makes the game a push over.

lxsg · 07-12-2012, 04:27 PM

Pushing > Turtling > Ganking > Pushing

If you want thwart push attempts, go gank-oriented.

As for why competitive teams favour early victories:

Quote:

Dendi: “Okay, I’ll try to explain. People think that it’s pushing, but that is not really what it is. If you get tower, you get advantage, and I think the right way to play DotA is to pick up towers. If you can pick up towers, you get advantage. So if you take heroes that let you push six towers, you still have lategame, and you defend your six towers, you always win, because you have gold advantage. Lategame is very random. When you go lategame, you can lose any moment. Any mistake - small mistake. What is the point of playing lategame, if you can finish them in twenty minutes? You risk. Sixty minutes and boom, you lose the game. I think it is really not good at the moment.”

In short, given that both teams have a similar hero lineup, the longer you drag the time, the bigger the risks of losing since game time "amplifies" mistakes as heroes are more farmed up as time goes by (e.g. lose a teamfight in 15:00, and you might just lose a tower, whereas if you lose a teamfight in 50:00, you could instantly lose the game). It's only natural that players would want to secure their wins as early as possible.

By the way, 6 towers give around 9k gold to the team, so if you're able to defend your 6 while destroying the enemy's 6, your team would be sitting on a 9k gold advantage which can happen as early as 15 minutes into the game - no carries could farm that much alone by then. Not to mention the map control that comes with it (esp. that they wouldn't be able to farm NCs easily anymore, hence further reducing their gold income).

Last but not least, for those who want to improve their knowledge on this topic, read: http://www.playdota.com/guides/draft...r-intermediate

lxsg · 07-12-2012, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FleshTRNDstone

Yes, yes I do.
And that's all fine an' dandy

I see what you did there.

Theexe2 · 07-12-2012, 04:32 PM

Once techies gets released the pushing meta will be officially over.

Kouze · 07-12-2012, 04:42 PM

Are techies specifically counter push?

okrane · 07-12-2012, 04:49 PM

you can't ask for unreasonable things like more towers...
but you have a point, pushing is getting stale and boring.
I do not like watching tournaments anymore after 3 months of push strats with the same Lesh/QoP/Invoker mid players.

Melopahn · 07-12-2012, 05:07 PM

Learn to play against the push teams. Their are anti push heroes and counter push teams that are just made to push faster. Their are also defense teams to crush late game. Everything has a counter or some way of beating it. Just because 1 hero you love so much can't do it doesnt mean what they are doing is OP.

New players need to learn that your skill starts at the hero select screen. If you see 5 pushers on the enemy team and go 50 minute carry you are already a bad player.

Dreamish · 07-12-2012, 05:14 PM

[QUOTE=lxsg;6379608]Pushing > Turtling > Ganking > Pushing[QUOTE]

Bullshit. Pushing is the ONLY valid strategy.

sunnymarcell · 07-12-2012, 05:39 PM

pushing strategy doesnt apply for pubs. i dont know about you, but i very rarely see a pushing chen or enigma in my games. it only applies in competitive.

and in competitive pushing strategy offers more situations to show your skills, and more enjoyable to watch than a farm-battle between 2 carries.

pushing shouldnt be nerfed.

CaptainRagu · 07-12-2012, 05:43 PM

The game is evolving and people dont like it.

Playing noob dota everyone wants to get a carry, farm the cool late game items and have exciting fights at 60 minutes. Reality is the game is about taking down the enemy base. Pushing heros are no more op now than carrys were back before the meta changed.

FleshTRNDstone · 07-12-2012, 06:08 PM

The point I'm trying to make, which seems only about 2 or so people in this thread has grasped so far, is that the whole pushing thing is being exploited, this goes for Dota1 and 2.

I've done the exploiting myself, and I've found it to be least challenging, easiest and quickest.
Sure you can counter pick, and counter-push, start pushing yourself, but that's just reinforcing it, not helping one bit.

Even though it's an inferior game to an extent, Demigod has managed to create a perfect balance between pushing, ganking, carrying and turtling.
''Go play Demigod then'' is the last thing I hope to see, that'll be just retarded.

07-12-2012, 04:32 PM	#23
Theexe2 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 481	Re: Pushing makes the game a push over. Once techies gets released the pushing meta will be officially over.

07-12-2012, 04:42 PM	#24
Kouze Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 158	Re: Pushing makes the game a push over. Are techies specifically counter push?

07-12-2012, 04:49 PM	#25
okrane Banned Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1,458 Blog Entries: 5	Re: Pushing makes the game a push over. you can't ask for unreasonable things like more towers... but you have a point, pushing is getting stale and boring. I do not like watching tournaments anymore after 3 months of push strats with the same Lesh/QoP/Invoker mid players.

07-12-2012, 05:07 PM	#26
Melopahn Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 198	Re: Pushing makes the game a push over. Learn to play against the push teams. Their are anti push heroes and counter push teams that are just made to push faster. Their are also defense teams to crush late game. Everything has a counter or some way of beating it. Just because 1 hero you love so much can't do it doesnt mean what they are doing is OP. New players need to learn that your skill starts at the hero select screen. If you see 5 pushers on the enemy team and go 50 minute carry you are already a bad player.

07-12-2012, 05:14 PM	#27
Dreamish Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 822	Re: Pushing makes the game a push over. [QUOTE=lxsg;6379608]Pushing > Turtling > Ganking > Pushing[QUOTE] Bullshit. Pushing is the ONLY valid strategy. __________________ I'm going to be starting up the Walking Artillery Platform (my replays of Invoker) series again for DotA 2 if enough people are interested. Send me a message if you are!

07-12-2012, 05:39 PM	#28
sunnymarcell Banned Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 6,400 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Pushing makes the game a push over. pushing strategy doesnt apply for pubs. i dont know about you, but i very rarely see a pushing chen or enigma in my games. it only applies in competitive. and in competitive pushing strategy offers more situations to show your skills, and more enjoyable to watch than a farm-battle between 2 carries. pushing shouldnt be nerfed.

07-12-2012, 05:43 PM	#29
CaptainRagu Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 98	Re: Pushing makes the game a push over. The game is evolving and people dont like it. Playing noob dota everyone wants to get a carry, farm the cool late game items and have exciting fights at 60 minutes. Reality is the game is about taking down the enemy base. Pushing heros are no more op now than carrys were back before the meta changed.

07-12-2012, 06:08 PM	#30
FleshTRNDstone Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Somewhere in known space, South-Africa Posts: 1,358 Blog Entries: 15	Re: Pushing makes the game a push over. The point I'm trying to make, which seems only about 2 or so people in this thread has grasped so far, is that the whole pushing thing is being exploited, this goes for Dota1 and 2. I've done the exploiting myself, and I've found it to be least challenging, easiest and quickest. Sure you can counter pick, and counter-push, start pushing yourself, but that's just reinforcing it, not helping one bit. Even though it's an inferior game to an extent, Demigod has managed to create a perfect balance between pushing, ganking, carrying and turtling. ''Go play Demigod then'' is the last thing I hope to see, that'll be just retarded. __________________ Icarus the Phoenix (6.70 - 6.74c) Awaiting your rebirth