[INT-SCOURGE] Croo, Evolution's End

[Pollo]

My second hero suggestion! This one’s meant to be played as a carry/anti-tank/anti-mage/anti-carry (You’ll understand when you read his abilities). And so, without further ado, I present to you…




Evolution’s End
Croo

Background Story: Suggestions are welcome! Pointers:
-He’s some kind of mad scientist who replicates evolution through artificial means
-He’s evil-ish
-He’s scourge

Strength – 15 + [2.4]
Agility - 15 + [2.4]
Intelligence – 15 + [2.4]

Affiliation:	Scourge
Damage:	42-50
Armor:	1.5
Movespeed:	290
Starting HP/MP:	435/225
Attack Range:	600

Assimilate - (Active, targets enemy, neutral or friendly creep)

__________________

Croo assimilates a creep’s very being, destroying it and allowing Croo to take its form. Adds a portion of the creep’s base damage as bonus damage, and retains all active and passive abilities the creep had.

__	____.	________.	_______.	___.	_______.	__________________________.
	Mana	Cooldown	C. Range	AoE	Duration	Effects
1	80	25 sec	400	-	-	Adds 25% of creep’s base damage as bonus damage.
2	60	20 sec	600	-	-	Adds 50% of creep’s base damage as bonus damage.
3	40	15 sec	800	-	-	Adds 75% of creep’s base damage as bonus damage.
4	20	10 sec	1000	-	-	Adds 100% of creep’s base damage as bonus damage.

Notes:

• -Gains gold and exp as normal for the assimilated creep.
  -Croo instantly takes the place of the targeted creep after casting Assimilate, allowing him to use it to help chase or escape.
  -This ability is not intended to help disguise Croo; he will retain his hero colors and still appear as a hero on the minimap while under this ability’s effects.
  -Croo retains the assimilated creep’s base attack speed and casting and attack animations. No longer retains creep's movespeed; thanks Stoyan for change.
  -Effect will only end if Croo assimilates another creep or dies and is reborn.
  
  I can’t see codability being that great of an issue for this ability; it’d probably take a little more work than most other abilities, to be fair, but in terms of doability I think it’s more than possible.
  
  This skill is really what defines Croo; it allows him to be an effective jungler, and basically allows him much more versatility in his skillset than most other heroes – he can pop into the jungle and pick up new abilities for himself whenever he feels the need.
  
  Plus, it sounds like A LOT OF FUN.

Unnatural Selection - (Active, affects all enemy units in a line)

__________

Survival of the fittest is Croo’s motto- he despises the weak with a passion, and will do anything to purge them from his sight. Releases unnatural energy that ripples out from Croo in a line, dealing damage and slowing all enemies it comes into contact with. Additionally, enemy heroes lower level than Croo take bonus damage relative to the level gap between them.

__	____.	________.	_______.	___.	_______.	__________________________.
	Mana	Cooldown	C. Range	AoE	Duration	Effects
1	80	14 sec	850	200	5 sec	15% slow, 60+20x damage, where x is (Croo’s level – Enemy hero’s level.)
2	100	12 sec	850	200	5 sec	20% slow, 80+40x damage, where x is (Croo’s level – Enemy hero’s level.)
3	120	10 sec	850	200	5 sec	25% slow, 100+60x damage, where x is (Croo’s level – Enemy hero’s level.)
4	140	8 sec	850	200	5 sec	30% slow, 120+80x damage, where x is (Croo’s level – Enemy hero’s level.)

Notes:

• -Will not do less damage if the enemy is higher leveled than Croo.
  -Only does base damage to creeps, no added damage.
  
  -Animations should look like Magnus’s shockwave, tinted green.
  
  An unusual nuke that can allow Croo to really get out of hand, punishing enemies for being underleveled while not being completely useless if enemies are the same or higher level than Croo. Couple this with the other nukes Croo can get by assimilating certain jungle creeps, and you have some ganking potential all by yourself!

Adaptation - (Passive, orb effect that triggers on attack)

__________

Croo alters the very nature of his attacks, adding potent magical effects based on his strongest attribute.

__	____.	________.	_______.	___.	_______.	__________________________.
	Mana	Cooldown	C. Range	AoE	Duration	Effects
1	-	-	-	-	-	5% of target’s remaining HP dealt as bonus damage/15% blind/12 mana burned on attack
2	-	-	-	-	-	6% of target’s remaining HP dealt as bonus damage/20% blind/24 mana burned on attack
3	-	-	-	-	-	7% of target’s remaining HP dealt as bonus damage/25% blind/36 mana burned on attack
4	-	-	-	-	-	8% of target’s remaining HP dealt as bonus damage/30% blind/48 mana burned on attack

Notes:

• -If Croo’s strongest attribute is strength, his attacks remove a portion of the target’s remaining HP; if it is agility, he blinds the target, lowering its attack accuracy; if it is intelligence, he will burn mana on each attack.
  -If two of Croo’s attributes are tied for highest (quite possible, considering his stat growth) he splits two adaptation bonuses, gaining half the effects of both of them. (i.e. if you have level 4 adaptation and have equal strength and agility, your attacks remove 4% of the target's maximum health and blind by 15%. [Thanks goes to manafusion for this idea!])Note: Although it was a good idea, splitting two bonuses might not actually be codable. Need verification on this one.
  
  -Adaptation is an orb effect.
  
  I feel very proud of myself for having come up with such an ability; Adaptation is always pretty useful, allows Croo to be even more flexible with item builds and synergizes awesomely with his ultimate. That being said, let me know what you think about it.

Evolution’s End - (Passive)

__________

Croo learns much from enemy heroes as they lay dying on the battlefield.

__	____.	________.	_______.	___.	_______.	__________________________.
	Mana	Cooldown	C. Range	AoE	Duration	Effects
1	-	-	-	600	-	Permanently gains 4 points of an enemy hero’s primary attribute if they die within AoE.
2	-	-	-	750	-	Permanently gains 6 points of an enemy hero’s primary attribute if they die within AoE.
3	-	-	-	900	-	Permanently gains 8 points of an enemy hero’s primary attribute if they die within AoE.

Notes:

• -If the enemy hero is outside AoE but Croo gets the kill, he will still gain stats.
  -Gains stats, does not steal them. (Not anymore, anyway. Mad props to Khassar for changes!)
  
  What can I say? For sure, it’s an annoying skill, but I don’t think it’s overpowered and it ties into his evolution theme quite well. Moreover, it synergizes perfectly with Adaptation –if the enemy team has an abundance of strength heroes, for instance, Croo will eventually gain a lot of strength, causing Adaptation to start removing HP on attack – which is perfect against a team with a lot of strength heroes! Ditto for a team composed primarily of intelligence or agility heroes. Would really like your opinions on this one.

There’s my second hero suggestion; I think the concept by itself is okay, but I definitely need help on the numbers and any suggestions are welcome. I think this one has a lot of potential. Anyways, thanks for your time!

[Pollo]

Fixed skill borders real quick just now. Hope no one noticed the WoW borders I originally had...
EDIT: fixed hotkeys as well. I am a really careless person.

[GuyManDude]

Lame!

[Sgt Failure]

Well, it is kinda nice, but ulti is to much, -8 for each death? It is +40 stats PER teambattle won?! I'll come back.

[Pollo]

Originally Posted by Sgt Failure

Well, it is kinda nice, but ulti is to much, -8 for each death? It is +40 stats PER teambattle won?! I'll come back.

Considering a team battle rarely results in 5 deaths, and the ulti doesn't do anything else besides steal stats, I'm not quite sure it's OP. Silencer's last word is a non-ulti passive that does something beside steal int and draws few remarks, plus silencer can utilize intelligence very well. Granted, +8 is much more than +1, but I don't really think this ulti is broken... maybe if I get a few more remarks, I'll change it.

[xy4kuz4x]

Quick review

Stats seems like atropos.

Skill 1 - hero -> creeps? Hell no. Just why? Dmg bonus is nice but useless in late game.

Skill 2 - Zzz . . . More fun skill but still nice imo. But useless against enemy hero that have higher level.

Skill 3 - flexible skill, but no. If you grow the str, you able to waste your enemy quickly, agi is useless, int will be imba.

Ultimate - it's overpower! 8 str = 152 hp. 8 agi = 1.1 armor and 8% AS. 8 int = 104 mp. Imagine when there is 5 heroes died.

[FlamingFist]

all i can say is numbers are imba, ill give full reviews later

[Pollo]

Originally Posted by xy4kuz4x

Quick review

Stats seems like atropos.

Skill 1 - hero -> creeps? Hell no. Just why? Dmg bonus is nice but useless in late game.

Skill 2 - Zzz . . . More fun skill but still nice imo. But useless against enemy hero that have higher level.

Skill 3 - flexible skill, but no. If you grow the str, you able to waste your enemy quickly, agi is useless, int will be imba.

Ultimate - it's overpower! 8 str = 152 hp. 8 agi = 1.1 armor and 8% AS. 8 int = 104 mp. Imagine when there is 5 heroes died.

Skill 1 - Why not? You retain all your stats, gain bonus damage and add abilities.

Skill 2 -Eh, still a nuke that slows if you're lower leveled than them.

Skill 3- Think you totally missed the point on this one - moreover, str form is no more broken than n'aix's feast; it doesn't even recover HP. Eh, int does seem a bit imba on second thought though. Changed to a feedback effect.

Skill 4- Numbers nerfed - enough complaints to warrant a change.

Thanks for your feedback :O

[Pollo]

Adaptation's intelligence form changed from a short silence to feedback. Nerfed AoE and numbers on Evolution's End, as it was drawing a lot of criticism.

I need number tweaks, sure, but I'd also like to hear some comments on the skill's concepts.

[xy4kuz4x]

Skill 1 - i don't like point #2. I think, when he using this skill, he don't need to be same like a creeps.

Skill 2 - formula is imba. Different number of level will x 80?! No reduce it, increase initial dmg and make a cap dmg. I see a something that similar with lvl death.

Skill 3 - okay, 3 different effects. I suggest something original effect. Feedback = AM. Blind = Broodmom (with additional effect). Bonus dmg, there is no hero that used this but i had seen something like this couple weeks ago.

Ultimate - I just wanna say "CHANGE" the ulti. Stealing status isn't good. Even do you want it, reduce it number to 2 instead of 6 and increase the aoe, imo.

[manafusion]

so... when you assimilate... do you get gold for "killing" the creep?

also, for 3rd skill, rather than having no bonus is two or more is tied, have it's effects split down to the portion equivalent to the number of stats that are tied.

i.e:

at lvl 4 with str and agi the highest (tied):-
4% of target’s remaining HP dealt as bonus damage & 15% blind

at lvl 4 with all stats tied (i say impossible but put it in anyway):-
2.6667% of target’s remaining HP dealt as bonus damage/10% blind/16 mana burned on attack

[Pollo]

Originally Posted by xy4kuz4x

Skill 1 - i don't like point #2. I think, when he using this skill, he don't need to be same like a creeps.

Strangely enough, the few people I've asked for advice on this skill very much enjoyed the idea of looking like a creep and gaining its skills. I certainly think it's a fun idea.

Originally Posted by xy4kuz4x

Skill 2 - formula is imba. Different number of level will x 80?! No reduce it, increase initial dmg and make a cap dmg. I see a something that similar with lvl death.

Only if you're pubstomping. Consider if you're 2 levels higher than an opponent, which won't happen if you're losing - that's 280 damage, hardly imba. If you're lower levelled, the ability's damage is very low. I do see your point, though, and will add a cap if more people complain about this skill.

Originally Posted by xy4kuz4x

Skill 3 - okay, 3 different effects. I suggest something original effect. Feedback = AM. Blind = Broodmom (with additional effect). Bonus dmg, there is no hero that used this but i had seen something like this couple weeks ago.

But the skill by itself is original, even if the effects themselves aren't.

Originally Posted by xy4kuz4x

Ultimate - I just wanna say "CHANGE" the ulti. Stealing status isn't good. Even do you want it, reduce it number to 2 instead of 6 and increase the aoe, imo.

...
A skill that would only steal 2 stat points at max level is very, very weak, especially for an ultimate. I want to keep a stat steal of some sort in there, but due to the amount of criticism this skill has drawn, I'm open to suggestions for a remake.

Originally Posted by manafusion

so... when you assimilate... do you get gold for "killing" the creep?

You sure do - I said so in the notes section.

Originally Posted by manafusion

also, for 3rd skill, rather than having no bonus is two or more is tied, have it's effects split down to the portion equivalent to the number of stats that are tied.

i.e:

at lvl 4 with str and agi the highest (tied):-
4% of target’s remaining HP dealt as bonus damage & 15% blind

at lvl 4 with all stats tied (i say impossible but put it in anyway):-
2.6667% of target’s remaining HP dealt as bonus damage/10% blind/16 mana burned on attack

Implemented since it's a pretty good suggestion and I can't think of anything better. Thanks!

[SlashStrike]

I don't know what everyone is complaining about... This hero seems perfect to me Oo Except a little change to skill 1: I really suggest you add a sub-skill that allows you to become yourself again. Also, does he lose his own skills while in a creep? I would also suggest to add some more things other than damage (lvling up just for dmg is meh) also hp&armor would be nice. And please, don't let him have the creep's MS >.< That would suck =/ a +60 to the creeps ms would be ok. Other than skill 1, I say this hero is gr8 and a T-up from me

[Khassar]

Somebody has beaten Prototype on hard I see. About third skill, considering that those effects are orb effects, wouldn't they overpower each other if all three of them are active at once? Could cause some coding troubles, but besides that, nothing too bad. And about his ultimate, +8 won't be too much if we change 'steal' into 'gain', meaning that it won't reduce dying hero's stats, but only increase Croo's.

[Pollo]

Originally Posted by Stoyan

Except a little change to skill 1: I really suggest you add a sub-skill that allows you to become yourself again.

I'd like to, and I did think about it, except one jungle creep (dark troll warlords, I believe) have more than one active skill, leaving no room for a subskill that cancels transformation.

I also want it to be possible to directly assimilate a creep while you've already assimilated something, so replacing assimilate with something like a "cancel assimilation" skill doesn't seem like a great idea to me.

Need suggestions on this one.

Originally Posted by Stoyan

Also, does he lose his own skills while in a creep?

Oh god, no. That would suck.

Originally Posted by Stoyan

I would also suggest to add some more things other than damage (lvling up just for dmg is meh) also hp&armor would be nice.

Considering it; I think I'll get around to changing it a little in the near future, adding extra values relative to the creep's armor/HP/MP, etc., but not now. It sounds like a templating nightmare.

Originally Posted by Stoyan

And please, don't let him have the creep's MS >.< That would suck =/ a +60 to the creeps ms would be ok.

Changing MS to no longer be affected by assimilation.

Originally Posted by Stoyan

Other than skill 1, I say this hero is gr8 and a T-up from me

Thanks a lot

Originally Posted by Khassar

About third skill, considering that those effects are orb effects, wouldn't they overpower each other if all three of them are active at once?

Probably. This leaves me, once again, without a reliable 'solution' in dealing with third skill... Maybe I should just remake it ==

Suggestions are welcome.

Originally Posted by Khassar

And about his ultimate, +8 won't be too much if we change 'steal' into 'gain', meaning that it won't reduce dying hero's stats, but only increase Croo's.

Really good call, actually, and it even fits better flavorfully. Changing it now.

[manafusion]

overhaul skill name and redo the whole skill... i will think of a suggestion when i get back from college (maybe around 4pm)

[TribunXIII]

hey there, sry for the delay

Overall Concept(5)

• Cool concept, surely an unusual theme

[B]5/5[B]

Model(5)

• Fine

5/5

Stats (6)

• Unbalanced! A 7.2 Gain is seriousely to much(-3). Also, i dont like balanced stats. Int as main makes him also a good user of Disablers, what will make him a bit OP if we regard the skills and his other, also high stats. (-1)

2/6

Skillset/Cosemtic (6)

• First skill looks like a ranger skill (-1)

5/6

Assimilation (12)

• Concept: Possessing a creep is cool. But you should not gain BaT (-1). Bat is something hero-specific.
• Balance: Basically gives you at minimum a permanent +30 Attack and a few useful abilitys. Ablitys from creeps can be imbalanced (such as stun or purge) (-2) Dmg buff is huge in early.(-1)
• Name/Description is ok.

8/12

Unnatural Selection (12)

• Concept: I herd Lvl?Death & Shockwave. Why bashing low-lvl heros for beeing underleveled? Seems useless, since underleveled heros arent a big prob for a team. (-2)
• Balance: This spell heals a hero that is 2 lvls higher than u by 60HP? Wtf? (-2) Then, also this spell is useless late since about 100 dmg, nobody really cares. (-1) In early definitive overpowered, if you got a single line (-2)
• Description/Name is ok.

6/12
Note: You should work on the formula, and think of the use for your team.

Adaption: (12)

• Concept: 3 Orbs in one, not very new btw (-4)
• Balance: Since you have the possibility of 3 orbs: Manaburn: Too high, as high as maginas, and its maginas speciality (-1). Lifeleech: Naix, but 2x, Op (-1) Blind: Free Butterfly in a duel pawns? also number is over the top. and this is the only one u got no use from several hits, so you may blind a few enemys (-1). Tied: Hmm Op+Op = OP? (-2)
• Description/Name is ok

3/12
Note: Remake this one.

Ulti NEvolutions End (12)

• Concept: Super-Silencer/Pudge. Not very unique/new, since it makes nuthing but gaining attributes.(-2)
• Balance: If you use this well, what I assume, the numbers are off. 2+/5 str picks=> u play a tank, ask to gank them, 2+/5 Agi => Dps... usw. (-4) 8 is too huge. Ok it is a ult but cmon Sile +1(2, it is stealing) and pudge +1.8. It is a ult, and provides nothing other, tahts at max 4. But not more.(Compare: Trax ult +45 Agi. U easily are near 10 kills on the battlefield.)
• Description/Name is ok.

6/12

Synergies (15)

• ok, skill 1 is good for farmin and early killing, that helps skill 2, => killing for ult. skill 3 is a filler (-2), makes you moar OP which is dependant on your ult/items (-2). Ult does not synergize with skill 2 at all (-1)

10/15

Gameplay thoughts/Own opinion (15)

• get sololine, lvl skill 1 and 2, go forest till ure at least +4 lvls over others once you got lvl 3/4 skill (for extreme farming) and then bash them so hard with your wave and good items, and high attack, slow/stun abilitys from creeps, lvl even faster, gank, get HUGE attributes (also through your gain) and pwn them with you OP attris in late. Sounds kinda lame, but this is how it works. (-7 for lame) Only interresting is that he can play different roles based on teamplay and enemys picks.

8/15

58/100 Concept quite cool, beside ulti and orb, but main idea is interresting. But numbers are off, and he can be used too powerful.
How I review:

-I only point out negative points.
-Skills rating: 5 points concept, 5 points numbers, 2 points description
- Beside "Gameplay thoughts/Own Opinion" I try to be impartial

[Linism]

Nice concept. I think the model might be a bit unfitting though. I imagined a more Morphling like hero since Morphling is supposedly the peak of evolution. A Sludge thing might be nice, a human model is too... Prototype (like Khassar said). Skillwise,

Assimilate - Nice skill, seeing lots of fun potentials. BUT jarringly this is the only skill that is not adaptive, it is purely a DPS skill, since all it grants is bonus damage. Maybe instead of 100% base damage, split it to xx% base damage, yy% maximum HP (not the best suggestion but hopefully it turns your thinking wheels)?

Unnatural Selection - Starting with a skill as cool as Assimilate is kind of bad lol, it makes me feel like the rest are boring. Unnatural Selection is not bad and only OP in certain situation so no arguments against it.

Adaptation - Did you consider the effect being dependent on the enemy's Primary/dominant stat instead (dominant as in his highest stat, primary as in the tavern he comes from)? Not saying your current version is bad, but just offering you another perspective in case you didn't think about it. No arguments against this either.

Evolution's End - Like everyone else, +8 seems a bit too much, but at the same time I understand your worry of it being too weak an ulti. So my suggestion is, why don't you nerf this to a normal 4 level skill with the same potency as Pudge's (1.8 gain) and some side-effects maybe, and make Assimilate, the hands-down coolest spell this guy has, the ultimate.

Hope to see some more of this hero. Lastly, I need to repeat this, make Assimilate the ULTI, sure beats the hell out of a boring passive ulti! And the model, that's the only part of your suggestion I don't like.

[Khassar]

Hmz, I thought some more about this and here's what I suggest in order to make him and his skills more balanced.

Stats: Well, 7.2 is kinda high, even if we consider his low starting stats. If u ask me, it would be more balanced this way:
Int:20 + 1.9 per level
Str:20 + 1.9 per level
Agi:20 + 1.9 per level

OR

Int:19 + 2 per level
Str:19 + 2 per level
Agi:19 + 2 per level

I mean, he doesn't really need high stat growth due to his ult, but he needs good starting stats in order to get the upper hand against his enemies early game(and gain more levels) so that his nuke can be more powerful early-mid game.

Assimilate:
Most powerful non-ancient creeps have like 50-60 (centaur, furbolg, satyr hellcaller) attack dmg, so giving him +100% creep damage is like giving him a free relic, not to mention gain of the creep abilities and all the gold and exp from the kill. So here's what I propose:

Dmg: Make it 20%,40%,60%,80% OR remove it and add something else.
Abilities:Okay as it is now.
Mana cost:Well, 20 mana for insta creep kill is overpowered, make it 100-150.
Exp and gold gain: This skill can make you quiet rich in no time. Don't know how to balance this out, for start just increase cd by 5 sec for all levels.

Unnatural selection:
I see that there's some serious bitching about this skill, so I'll try to nerf it a bit. Let's cap it at 440 dmg(lvl difference 4), I know that this is his way to kill weaker heroes and buff up his stats, but more than this is going to be more powerful than fully channeled illuminate. Also, let's bring new mechanic in this skill:

Croo releases unnatural energy using his own biomass, damaging enemies in line depending on their level and slowing them.
So what's the catch? Whenever you assimilate someone you'll gain one charge of biomass(or should I call it critical mass?) up to maximum of two charges. Whenever you use unnatural selection it'll use one charge. If there are no charges u can't use your nuke. So how this reflects on Croo's gameplay? Well, you can't just pick your favorite creep and keep it's dmg and abilties forever, you'll be forced to use assimilate more often, even if there are only weak creeps around, making Croo a bit more harder to use and adding up some dynamic in his gameplay.

Adaptation: Well, I still have no clue how to improve this, idea is original, but 3-orbs-in-one-skill is kinda nasty, so I'll think about it some more.

Evolution's End:
Well, if u wanna too keep his +8 per kill ult, I advise you to change it in only-if-u-kill skill. +24(team fight, three kills) stats at once is too much, even if it's only 'gain', not 'steal'(I know, I know, you can kick me in the balls). However, I think that that something weaker AoE version can also be quiet good, let' say +3,+4.5,+6, maybe +2,+4,+6. If u ask me, something like +2,+3,+4 would be even more balanced, but hey, it's your hero, your skill, your decision.

Well, that's it.

And about linkyaw's suggestion, yeah, assimilate is far more original skill than evolution's end, and insta killing creeps like cent and furbolg with non-ulty skill could be a bit unbalanced, but it's up to you Pollo to decide. Of course, if u change assimilate into ultimate forget about biomass concept(there's no sense in ult skill giving charges for non-ult skill).

[Khassar]

And about assimilate, maybe you should make it castable only if creep has less than 100/200/300/400 hp, meaning you wouldn't be able to insta kill powerful neutrals like cents and furbolgs, thus making it balanced.