Just curious...

[Syaska]

What hero or combination or heroes could theoretically achieve the highest armor value (without using wtf mode obviously)?
I thought about Axe (call gives 30 armor, I don't think any hero can go on par with him, but I may be wrong). with Treant/Lich/Sven/Dazzle, a Meka, a Buckler, Wildkin and Frost Ogre, and cuirass aura. Just curious if any mechs forumers had any ideas on Additional sources of armor/better replacements?

[EebstertheGreat]

Slark can get up to +148.26 armor from Essence Shift alone. No other hero can come close, with the exception of Omniknight's ultimate, which gives +1000 armor.

[Syaska]

Originally Posted by EebstertheGreat

Slark can get up to +148.26 armor from Essence Shift alone. No other hero can come close, with the exception of Omniknight's ultimate, which gives +1000 armor.

Excluding Omni who just beats everything, that'd mean the highest possible armor would be a fully stacked Slark paired with Dazzle/Sven/Roof/Lich, near an enchanted Wildkin and an Ogre, and with an assault cuirass/RoB/Vlad aura plus mek plus buckler on one of the allied heroes. Or did I miss something in the plus armor item/heroes category?

[fr0zenknife]

Originally Posted by Syaska

Excluding Omni who just beats everything, that'd mean the highest possible armor would be a fully stacked Slark paired with Dazzle/Sven/Roof/Lich, near an enchanted Wildkin and an Ogre, and with an assault cuirass/RoB/Vlad aura plus mek plus buckler on one of the allied heroes. Or did I miss something in the plus armor item/heroes category?

Slark has to carry 6 shivas.

[EebstertheGreat]

Originally Posted by Syaska

Excluding Omni who just beats everything, that'd mean the highest possible armor would be a fully stacked Slark paired with Dazzle/Sven/Roof/Lich, near an enchanted Wildkin and an Ogre, and with an assault cuirass/RoB/Vlad aura plus mek plus buckler on one of the allied heroes. Or did I miss something in the plus armor item/heroes category?

The highest possible armor is achieved by a level 25 Slark in the following party. Assume: (1) all abilities are maxed, (2) all allied auras are in range, (3) all active abilities reach their cast point at the time Slark achieves maximum agi (14403*roof(120/0.25) = 1440, not 3*roof(120/(1.7/5)) = 1059 as previously thought based on Slark attacking with max IAS. By using other damage sources created before the fight (e.g. rune and manta illusions, dominated creeps, Necro warriors--items can be dropped on CD by exploiting Refresher earlier in the game), and cancelling attacks before they complete, Slark can theoretically steal stats every cooldown, which is 0.25 seconds., at a time we'll call t - 0) except Weave and one of Rubick's abillities, (4) Weave is cast at t - 30 s, (5) Rubick has stolen a (max level, Agha if applicable) armor buff from an enemy hero before battle and uses it around t - 2 s, (6) Rubick steals another enemy armor buff around t - 1 s and uses it at t - 0, and (7) Nothing is reducing Slark's armor.

Heroes		Murloc Nightcrawler		Grand Magus		Treant Protector		Lich*Either or both of Lich and Omniknight could be replaced by Shadow Priest or Rogue Knight. The point is having all four active armor buffs (two from Grand Magus).		Omniknight*Either or both of Lich and Omniknight could be replaced by Shadow Priest or Rogue Knight. The point is having all four active armor buffs (two from Grand Magus).
Active/Passive abilities		Essence Shift		Weave, Warcry*Or whichever two abilities are lacking from the team.		Living Armor		Frost Armor		Guardian Angel
Max armor bonus		201.6		30+12		4		9		1000
Items		6 x Shiva's Guard		AC or Vlads		Mekansm or Buckler		Helm of the Dominator		BoT,TB, PT, PB, AB, Boots
Armor bonus (to Slark)		90		5		2		3 (from Enranged Wildkin)		0

Slark has 0 base armor, which is reduced by 1 due to a gameplay constant. At level 25, he has 51 agi (15 + 1.5 * 24), which adds 51 * 0.14 = 7.14 armor.

So Slark's final armor (for at most one second) is 0Slark unit data: def=0 - 1Gameplay constants: AgiDefenseBase=-1.00 + 7.14Gameplay constant: AgiDefenseBonus=0.14; Slark unit data: AGI=15, AGIplus=1.5; 0.14 * (15 + 24 * 1.5) = 7.14 + 201.61440 agi from Essence Shift (see above) * 0.14 (see above) = 201.6 + 30Max armor reduction from Weave (Dazzle/Rubick) + 12Warcry (Sven/Rubick) + 4Living Armor (Rooftrellen) + 9Frost Armor (Lich/Rubick) + 1000Guardian Angel (Omniknight/Rubick) + 9015 (Shiva) * 6 = 90 + 5Devotion Aura (AC or Vlads) + 2Restore (Mekansm) or Armor Bonus (Buckler) + 3Toughness Aura (Enraged Wildkin) + 0lolnothing = 1356.6

If anybody knows any way to get more than 1356.6 armor in DotA, I would like to hear about it.

[fr0zenknife]

It still is %99 damage reduction however.

[EebstertheGreat]

Actually 98.7714384%.

[fr0zenknife]

Originally Posted by EebstertheGreat

Actually 98.7714384%.

I did the math, thanks.

[Syaska]

Originally Posted by EebstertheGreat

If anybody knows any way to get more than 1356.6 armor in DotA, I would like to hear about it.

Refresher->second Weave?(stacks on DotA 2, might be a bug, I know Ogre Magi Frost Armor stacks with Lich's one while it shouldn't).

[MauranKilom]

It doesn't stack in DotA 1, because the item armor bonuses it uses don't stack with each other and the trigger removes all of them before applying the current number. So the armor would switch between the 2 rising values, but never be the sum.

[1239]

If anybody knows any way to get more than 1356.6 armor in DotA, I would like to hear about it.

After some research I'm raising the bid by 18 to 1374.6 .

Different levels of Warcry stack

[MauranKilom]

How would you get 4 levels of warcry onto the same unit within the timeframe of the duration (without using duplicate heroes)?

[Yendor]

Originally Posted by MauranKilom

How would you get 4 levels of warcry onto the same unit within the timeframe of the duration (without using duplicate heroes)?

I can go up to three stacks. 4 is not possible IMO.

Sven has lvl.2 warcry and two unused skillpoints.
Lvl.2 already got stolen by Rubick.
Rubick and Sven have both refresher orb.
Rubick casts lvl.2 warcry.
Sven learns lvl.3 and casts it, so that Rubick can steal it and cast it.
Both refresh and do the same for lvl.4 warcry.

[fr0zenknife]

Originally Posted by Yendor

I can go up to three stacks. 4 is not possible IMO.

Sven has lvl.2 warcry and two unused skillpoints.
Lvl.2 already got stolen by Rubick.
Rubick and Sven have both refresher orb.
Rubick casts lvl.2 warcry.
Sven learns lvl.3 and casts it, so that Rubick can steal it and cast it.
Both refresh and do the same for lvl.4 warcry.

What if rubick steals another level while projectile is still flying?

[MauranKilom]

Anyways, spell steal doesn't care about the level of the spell when it was cast but the current level, right? So Rubick could have level 1 already, cast it, then sven levels up warcry, rubick steals level 2 and casts it, sven levels warcry to level 3, casts it, refreshes and levels it to level 4 and casts level 4 warcry.

But don't we need rubick for other stuff already? I mean, he could still have 1 other spell ready (refresher-trick) and steal another one with refresher during the fight...

[Yendor]

Originally Posted by MauranKilom

Anyways, spell steal doesn't care about the level of the spell when it was cast but the current level, right? So Rubick could have level 1 already, cast it, then sven levels up warcry, rubick steals level 2 and casts it, sven levels warcry to level 3, casts it, refreshes and levels it to level 4 and casts level 4 warcry.

But don't we need rubick for other stuff already? I mean, he could still have 1 other spell ready (refresher-trick) and steal another one with refresher during the fight...

Ah true, he already needs two spells.
But hey. Add a lvl.25 tinker in the enemy team and you're set.

[EebstertheGreat]

Originally Posted by MauranKilom

Anyways, spell steal doesn't care about the level of the spell when it was cast but the current level, right?

No, it is the other way around.

The obvious way to get extra armor is to exploit -noherolimit or the like, but in a normal match, I think the cap is 1370.6.

In my party, replace Lich with Dazzle, and have Dazzle dominate both the Wildkin and an Ogre Magi to place a frost armor (+8 armor instead of +9).

Rubick can then use levels 2, 3, and 4 Warcry in battle (with Refresher), giving +27 armor instead of +12.

So instead of the cap being 1356.6 it's 1356.6 + 15 - 1 = 1370.6.


I don't see how Rearm could help here.

[Yendor]

Originally Posted by EebstertheGreat

I don't see how Rearm could help here.

If mauran were right, it would have made a 4th stack of warcry possible.
Oh also NOW it allows the enmy team to have a lich.
=> +9 instead of +8 armor, since you can steal the licharmor due to masssteal-rearm.

[EebstertheGreat]

How would Rearm make it possible to cast four Warcries?

[Yendor]

Originally Posted by EebstertheGreat

How would Rearm make it possible to cast four Warcries?

[facepalm.jpg] I somehow thought rearm would increase the number of spells stealable, but I forgot that he need to steal rearm in the first place...