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Old 09-08-2012, 11:11 AM   #1
Ranaki
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Default why matchmaking without a visible rating is bad


Most of this applies to solo queue, more details about that later in the post:



I always pick a carry when I want to win. No matter what my team looks like.
You can check the One-Sided Matchmaking Game Log, where I post at least 1 stomp daily where I wanted to win, picked a carry, went mid and won it far too easily with an individual score of like 16 - 1 after 20 minutes.
When a scrub tells me otherwise, they have to somehow prove me wrong that the method to stomp i am using should not be applied. I don't have time to check their stats in 1 minute lol. Often they lie and they suck ass anyway so sometimes I just mute them. For me games often feel like as I'm solo against the enemy team and my team is just stealing farm from me.
I also buy my own wards and I buy my own courier if I have to.
The matchmaking is terrible and here is why:

When I play with 3 - 4 friends I know what my team is capable of and I pick something more secure to ensure a win, because I know what skill level they are in. If I play with friends that are good and want to win I pick that what is needed and fits in the team most perfectly. When I'm with friends that I want to teach, I often pick supports and try to let them carry, but I lose this way often. When I want to win with them after they complain like "we are never winning" I pick something like CK, Tinker, SS, Morph or something in that style and go mid and tell them what to do. Still works far better than solo matchmaking because they know that I know how to play.

Imo, the entire problem with the matchmaking is that you lack stats and visible rating.
People lie but stats don't. If I knew my team would consist of good players I would pick something that fits into the team and simply trust the ratings.
Don't give me bullshit like "rating and stats don't tell you anything" erm, yes they do. Matchmaking is based around numbers, the only problem is that WE CAN'T FCKING SEE THEM. If we could, games would definatly improve.
Sure, we would have a lot of elitists in dota2, but I'd rather play with some elitists that have a shit attitude and have a great satisfying game (even if i would lose) than playing with some casual noob that anyway has some sort of shit attitude that THINKS he is good and the game outcome is already decided after 20 minutes whenever I play a carry role or not. If I play a carry, 90% of the cases I will win. If I don't play a carry or a ganker, I win about 50% of the time because I simply can't do shit later at 50 minutes if the enemy team turns out to be decent while my team has like 4 typical russians in it.

Why would I trust the ratings if they were visible?
I would rather trust individual as much as detailed information about a player than nothing at all in dota. this is a team game after all, knowing which skill level your teammates are in is important.

But matchmaking queues you with people of your skill level
- If it would I wouldn't make this post.
The matchmaking here forces a 50% of skill level. Someone on your team could play with a shitty friend that says he is "good". You never know and it's not worth the odds. Rather pick a hard carry, mute all and go mid. Works 90% of the time in these scrub games.

If you keep on winning you get queued with better players
- I tried that for a while. And it did not work.
Also: In HoN for example I'd know when I reached a new bracket, here is just a guessing game. I can't fcking tell whenever my team is good by the picks they make because I don't know whenever they are 4 try-hard friends or actually are good. Asking them doesn't often help because I either get ignored or get a reply in russian and I already know I'm pretty much doomed because of communication issues.

Conclusion:
If you want a good matchmaking, copy the matchmaking of HoN and improve it.
Visible stats are a MUST in dota2, especially if you solo queue.

Matchmaking is supposed to improve your skills, but it doesn't because if I pick a hero I'm not good with without knowing what kind of people the players on my team are I have no idea whenever I'm going to be able to play the hero at it's normal potential or if it will end up with me being completely useless while waiting for someone to finish the game.

A solution which favours everyone would be to have another matchmaking queue. One with stats and rating, and the other one without, like the current.

I have to say though, Team matchmaking is mostly pretty accurate when I play with at least 3 other friends. even more accurate when I play with 4.
Still, stats and ratings would improve that experience as well.

I've brought this up a 1000 times and I still don't know why people are insisting that the current matchmaking is fine. It's not:
- At least half of the community wants to have a visible rating according to this poll: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...visible+rating
WHY is this still ignored? That is just even more proof that we must have an alternative matchmaking system.
Sure, it would separate the community, but the community is already very separated with opinions.
Some mod once said "Sometimes what the community wants might not be best for the community"
That is true, but if the community isn't satisfied the game will fail. And it seems like 54% of the community isn't satisfied. Doesn't valve care about HALF of dota2's players if not even more?!

The current matchmaking might be good for new players and people with low confidence that can't handle being called "bad" and that is a good thing.
So, that also supports my suggestion to add an alternative matchmaking with stats, so that people can chose what they like. I'd rather wait 5 minutes longer in the queue and have a match that i find good than how it currently is.

/edit: I want to inform all of you that what I mean is that the current matchmaking ruins the games for the good and more experienced players.
Why do I have to find 4 friends that are in the same skill level as me in order to play a CM game that is exciting when the same could be done in the solo matchmaking, like in HoN?


I keep referring to HoN because it's the closest example of what dota2 should be and should not be like.
HoN's matchmaking system is defiantly great for better players while the current matchmaking system in dota is more noob friendly.
Which is why dota2 should have two different matchmaking systems.\

>TLDR:
Stats and ratings would improve matchmaking because: read the god damn post if you want to know!
 
Last edited by Ranaki; 09-08-2012 at 02:41 PM.
Old 09-08-2012, 11:16 AM   #2
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

yeah give us some sort of visible rating. every competetive sort of game (maybe short of shooters) has a rating system. If its good for street fighter and starcraft its good for dota as well
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:18 AM   #3
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

agree, but the answer is one word

beta. valve will probably put time into this, there are bazillion and fuckallion of things that need to be added into the game.

Quote:
I Each player starts with clean papers, no league with 0 points and that would fall into the first league need to get 1000 points in this training stage, the player gets to win by about 50 points and spends 25 per lose (less than 0 points won't go .) This segment can be called a kind of training / practice for beginners and heating for the other.

II Wood League, here come the players scored 1000 points, the range of the league from 1000 to 1200. For the victory gives ~ 25 points for a defeat shoot 15 in the league below 1,000 points do not decrease, that is to fall back into the educational games is impossible.

III Bronze League. The range of scores of players 1200-1400, for the victory gives 15 points for a defeat shoot 10.


IV Silver League. The range of 1400-1600 points for the victory give 10, remove 5. Most likely it will be the main home of Silver players mid-skills and veterans.

V Gold League. The range of 1600-1800 points for the victory given five points, shoot 5. A more rigid framework, a more rigid system of ranking. On the interval 1600-1700 will be many more "random Silver" but the higher the rating, the greater will be the players, the more interesting games.

VI ML League. The range of scores 1800-2000 points. For the victory give 5 points for a defeat as well shoot 5. The strongest players, the most serious game. Since only the really good players can play as many games with a win rate appropriately.

2,000 + Elite League, but there is no difference, just a different icon for beauty.
this would be really nice imo.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:20 AM   #4
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViller View Post
yeah give us some sort of visible rating. every competetive sort of game (maybe short of shooters) has a rating system. If its good for street fighter and starcraft its good for dota as well
exactly, if you look at it from that aspect, a competitive game without a visible rating system or player ladder is a joke.
It would be far more interesting to see new people in tournaments that were high up on the player ladder a while before they joined a good team than just having some random people joining.

It would make people want to climb the player ladder, like in HoN, which would make everyone trying to win. In other words, it would create elitiests, but as I've said:

I'd rather play with a bunch of elitists that try to be good than playing with casual players that are shit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnymarcell View Post
agree, but the answer is one word

beta. valve will probably put time into this, there are bazillion and fuckallion of things that need to be added into the game.
Sadly, as it seems in the dev forums, this game will currently never have any visible rating system or stats. Which Is why I also did post this here in order to get people's attention and to encourage them to be more active in the dev forums so this game doesn't turn out shit.
Not even a concede function, which is pretty important in pub games where you play with pure assholes imo.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:22 AM   #5
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

A visible rating will result in an even worse attitude.
There are stats and there is a rating. There is no need for it to be visible and you gave quite a few reason in your OP why there SHOULDN'T be a rating. People will just look at your profile, say GG and leave. "I won't play with people <70% winrate" I can see it now.
Also, I read some of your posts and they will not be looked at like that. As the OP says, you have to describe the match properly.

Remember that there is a forum for this kind of feedback.
I will keep this open since this thread has at least some effort put into it but I will close it if there is no proper discussion. I advise you to post this on the Dev-Forums.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:23 AM   #6
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

I'm against it
Matchmaking with a visible rating only generates elitism and a "I'm better than you" attitude
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:28 AM   #7
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

I didnīt read your whole post last time but i disagree on showing stats.

Other then a rating stats passively promote a certain palystyle that isnīt 100% victory oriented. That is if you see your team falling behind a little bit a lot of players will consider the game lost and from then play to save theyr stats rather then a victory. Because if you lose you lose mmr and that sucks BUT if you manage to steal some kills or farm a lot while you should have been helping your team or buy unnessecary wards at least your stats will increase.

This kind of behavior should never be encouraged.

But a stat ladder is paramount imo EVERYONE VOTE ON THAT FUCKING POLL HE POSTED
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...visible+rating
 
Last edited by DaViller; 09-08-2012 at 11:39 AM.
Old 09-08-2012, 11:29 AM   #8
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymen View Post
A visible rating will result in an even worse attitude.
There are stats and there is a rating. There is no need for it to be visible and you gave quite a few reason in your OP why there SHOULDN'T be a rating. People will just look at your profile, say GG and leave. "I won't play with people <70% winrate" I can see it now.
Also, I read some of your posts and they will not be looked at like that. As the OP says, you have to describe the match properly.

Remember that there is a forum for this kind of feedback.
I will keep this open since this thread has at least some effort put into it but I will close it if there is no proper discussion. I advise you to post this on the Dev-Forums.
I'd rather play with elitists than playing with casual players. Already wrote that in my post.
Elitists might have a bad attitude, but at least they often are far better players than those lame casual players.

There are several ways to prevent what you've said: for example, in the loading screen all names should be hidden.
But actually, you CAN already check up someones win ratio and leave. But nobody does leave, i try to check up as many peoples win ratio as possible before the game starts just to know a little bit about them.
I do not leave though.

It makes no sense at all not knowing anything about your teammates.

Also it feels like Valve ignores such sort of opinions which is why I also post it here because i want people to be more active about this kind of stuff in the dev forums.
Most people are like "it's just in beta" but if they don't state their opinions, the game will stay as it is now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentry_ward View Post
I'm against it
Matchmaking with a visible rating only generates elitism and a "I'm better than you" attitude
I'd rather have elitism with a "I'm better than you" attitude than having the current system.


A reply for both of you guys' posts:
I'd rather play with elitists that have a bad attitude but provide a really good match than playing with casual players that still have a bad attitude and don't even deliver an exciting match.
You are a complete moron if you say that the current matchmaking at least provides a good attitude between players which is pretty much what you both have said.



Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViller View Post
I didnīt read your whole post last time but i disagree on showing stats.
While I would personally prefer stats, I support the idea of not having stats for the reasons you have said.

But a rating system is still VERY VERY important.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:32 AM   #9
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranaki View Post
I'd rather play with elitists than playing with casual players. Already wrote that in my post.
Elitists might have a bad attitude, but at least they often are far better players than those lame casual players.

There are several ways to prevent what you've said: for example, in the loading screen all names should be hidden.




I'd rather have elitism with a "I'm better than you" attitude than having the current system.


A reply for both of you guys' posts:
I'd rather play with elitists that have a bad attitude but provide a really good match than playing with casual players that still have a bad attitude and don't even deliver an exciting match.
You are a complete moron if you say that the current matchmaking at least provides a good attitude between players which is pretty much what you both have said.



While I would personally prefer stats, I support the idea of not having stats for the reasons you have said.

But a rating system is still VERY VERY important.
I'd not
I prefer to lose an enjoyable game than to win a game where everyone is an asshole
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:35 AM   #10
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentry_ward View Post
I'm against it
Matchmaking with a visible rating only generates elitism and a "I'm better than you" attitude
Well, if we still can remember Dota-League, there never was something like "I'm btter than you" attitude. Especially for me. played sig for a long time and never saw one guy with this attitude. btw. the pointsystem works also fine.

€: I'd rather to have a split between serious buisness and funny/custom games.
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:36 AM   #11
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymen View Post
A visible rating will result in an even worse attitude.
There are stats and there is a rating. There is no need for it to be visible and you gave quite a few reason in your OP why there SHOULDN'T be a rating. People will just look at your profile, say GG and leave. "I won't play with people <70% winrate" I can see it now.
Also, I read some of your posts and they will not be looked at like that. As the OP says, you have to describe the match properly.

Remember that there is a forum for this kind of feedback.
I will keep this open since this thread has at least some effort put into it but I will close it if there is no proper discussion. I advise you to post this on the Dev-Forums.
Im sorry but i disagree on the rating part. Stats do change a game to the worse but a rating instills a certain amount of dedication to win in players wich is desireable. I am only talking about rating here not visible stats.
At worst it will cause some elitism in higher ranking players but just look at how it is now.

The game is full of people who dont give a rats ass about winning the game and auto pick a carry or random every time.

Also if a person who is on a high ranking tells a lower level player something like" hay man you should get a force staff and some wards" the lower level player is less likely to feel insulted. Because people hate being lectured in general but even more from someone who isnīt proven to be better then tem.

THE POLL NEEDS YOU
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?...visible+rating
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:36 AM   #12
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by bury View Post
Well, if we still can remember Dota-League, there never was something like "I'm btter than you" attitude. Especially for me. played sig for a long time and never saw one guy with this attitude. btw. the pointsystem works also fine.
we are not talking about dota-league, we are talking about dota 2, which has 80k users online every day and is still in closed beta
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:38 AM   #13
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranaki View Post
I always pick a carry when I want to win. No matter what my team looks like.
That explains a lot to me.
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:39 AM   #14
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Because this game definitely needs more seperation of classes. Caste system was demolished for a good reason, I don't see why we should bring it back.

ps: If this sort of rating was added to the game, I still wouldn't want to have you on my team even if you had 90% win rate. I prefer those ''lame casuals'' over people who think they wrote the book of dota and have right to do whatever the fuck they want.

I am a casual, I play this game for fun, and I have my fun with mildly experienced players (I do hate playing with totally clueless people as well, don't get me wrong), not ultimate tryhards doing whatever they want and ordering everyone on my team as if someone made him the leader.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:39 AM   #15
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Ill make a quick post:

1.Go try HoN (cancerous mm people call out who should carry etc)
2.108 heroes in total. How do you define skill level on 108 heroes. Not even dendi can play all heroes at the very very very high skilled level. No one can, because it is a fcking TEAM GAME.
3.Visible stats = end of good games. People will be whoring kills like mad to buff their k/d.

MM is broken for sure but i dont think there is anyway to fix it but they could improve it as much as possible. In the end of the day mm will still force 50% w/l rate on you so.....

Anyhow, solution has absolutely nothing to do with making stat visible, actually, you can check that freely at dotabuff.com.
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:42 AM   #16
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by burningsera View Post
Ill make a quick post:

1.Go try HoN (cancerous mm people call out who should carry etc)
2.108 heroes in total. How do you define skill level on 108 heroes. Not even dendi can play all heroes at the very very very high skilled level. No one can, because it is a fcking TEAM GAME.
3.Visible stats = end of good games. People will be whoring kills like mad to buff their k/d.

MM is broken for sure but i dont think there is anyway to fix it but they could improve it as much as possible. In the end of the day mm will still force 50% w/l rate on you so.....

Anyhow, solution has absolutely nothing to do with making stat visible, actually, you can check that freely at dotabuff.com.
so i should check game stats outside the game? makes much sense for me...
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:43 AM   #17
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentry_ward View Post
I'd not
I prefer to lose an enjoyable game than to win a game where everyone is an asshole
So you are implying that currently there are no assholes in the game because there is no rating?
- You just proved yourself a moron.

Currently, there are no good games and a bad attitude between players.
A rating would provide: a bad attiude but GOOD games, which is what I play dota for.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Millennium View Post
Because this game definitely needs more seperation of classes. Caste system was demolished for a good reason, I don't see why we should bring it back.

ps: If this sort of rating was added to the game, I still wouldn't want to have you on my team even if you had 90% win rate. I prefer those ''lame casuals'' over people who think they wrote the book of dota and have right to do whatever the fuck they want.

I am a casual, I play this game for fun, and I have my fun with mildly experienced players (I do hate playing with totally clueless people as well, don't get me wrong), not ultimate tryhards doing whatever they want and ordering everyone on my team as if someone made him the leader.
Two words:

Seperate Matchmaking

With an alternative matchmaking, everyone (at least almost everyone) would be satisfied.

Quote:
Originally Posted by burningsera View Post
Ill make a quick post:

1.Go try HoN (cancerous mm people call out who should carry etc)
2.108 heroes in total. How do you define skill level on 108 heroes. Not even dendi can play all heroes at the very very very high skilled level. No one can, because it is a fcking TEAM GAME.
3.Visible stats = end of good games. People will be whoring kills like mad to buff their k/d.

MM is broken for sure but i dont think there is anyway to fix it but they could improve it as much as possible. In the end of the day mm will still force 50% w/l rate on you so.....

Anyhow, solution has absolutely nothing to do with making stat visible, actually, you can check that freely at dotabuff.com.
But! in HoN I have better matches than in dota2 because the people listen to the one with most rating.

I found the matchmaking system in HoN bad, until I played dota2.

Again: it makes no sense not knowing anything about your teammates in dota.

also, what sunnymarcell said.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:44 AM   #18
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by zwegat85 View Post
That explains a lot to me.
It works though.
If you would read my entire post you would know why I do that though.

I consider myself as a good player, letting other people carry is most of the time a loss for me, which i also said in that post.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:46 AM   #19
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranaki View Post
So you are implying that currently there are no assholes in the game because there is no rating?
- You just proved yourself a moron.

Currently, there are no good games and a bad attitude between players.
A rating would provide: a bad attiude but GOOD games, which is what I play dota for.
Do you want Valve to exclusively release DOTA 2: Ranaki Edition for you as well? So far you have only accomplished giving people here an image of a horrendously selfish person.

The reason why you play dota is not necessarily the reason everyone else should play.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:46 AM   #20
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranaki View Post
So you are implying that currently there are no assholes in the game because there is no rating?
- You just proved yourself a moron.

Currently, there are no good games and a bad attitude between players.
A rating would provide: a bad attiude but GOOD games, which is what I play dota for.
How do you define good games?

Just because you think so, does everybody else think so?

Generalize more pls.
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:48 AM   #21
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranaki View Post
So you are implying that currently there are no assholes in the game because there is no rating?
- You just proved yourself a moron.

Currently, there are no good games and a bad attitude between players.
A rating would provide: a bad attiude but GOOD games, which is what I play dota for.
I never said there are no assholes currently in the game, I said that with visible stats the amount of assholes would skyrocket
"Good games". That's my point as well, I don't consider a game good if all game long 9 people are insulting each other
You may play only for the win, good for you, but I don't. I want to have an enjoyable game, I'd rather have a 90 min game and lose it that win in min 20 because I enjoy long games more

Blizzard is a company I hate for what they do, but their decision to remove stats from all brackets except the top 2 in SC2 was one I agreed with

Promoting hate is NOT the way to make a multiplayer game, try to think with the "What's more fun?" attitude than the "I should win every game".
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:49 AM   #22
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranaki View Post
So you are implying that currently there are no assholes in the game because there is no rating?
- You just proved yourself a moron.

Currently, there are no good games and a bad attitude between players.
A rating would provide: a bad attiude but GOOD games, which is what I play dota for.
Yeah hes 100% correct on this one. Seriously right now its like this.

Since noone can somehow estimate how good the other players are people are more inclined to mass carry picking. If there is a rating system maybe you have some dude saying "hey i will carry i have the highest rating get me some support" that is still better then "we have riki and lycan and sf mid so i will get phantom lancer incase they all suck".

But dude for the sake of making yourself look not like a douchebag and people turning this into a flame fest dont mention yourself as better then most people. It may be true but most of them will use this to declare this thread as whining
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:54 AM   #23
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Please people mmr doesnīt turn the game into a flame fest more then it already is thats just a myth.

People in hon dont flame for mmr they flame for STATS like K/D or GPM. I think a rating system will help to make games better as they also promote working with your team to achieve victory rather then going "im the only good player here anyhow so fuck those other 4 guys". This will undoubtedly happen with some players once they start jerking off the theyr rating but its already happening right now without rating as well.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:54 AM   #24
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

I just cant understand why is there so many one sided games

2/3-1/2 games

and balanced ones

1/3-1/2 games

why sometimes everything seems fine while game after it you ask yourself, MM, seriously?
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:56 AM   #25
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViller View Post
Yeah hes 100% correct on this one. Seriously right now its like this.

Since noone can somehow estimate how good the other players are people are more inclined to mass carry picking. If there is a rating system maybe you have some dude saying "hey i will carry i have the highest rating get me some support" that is still better then "we have riki and lycan and sf mid so i will get phantom lancer incase they all suck".

But dude for the sake of making yourself look not like a douchebag and people turning this into a flame fest dont mention yourself as better then most people. It may be true but most of them will use this to declare this thread as whining
Then we don't need visible stats, we need better matchmaking that puts people of the same skill level together

And, please, let him speak however he wants, he is the perfect example of the attitide almost everyone will have if something like this is to be implemented: elitist, selfish, "I'm better than everyone here"
 
Old 09-08-2012, 11:57 AM   #26
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaViller View Post
Yeah hes 100% correct on this one. Seriously right now its like this.

Since noone can somehow estimate how good the other players are people are more inclined to mass carry picking. If there is a rating system maybe you have some dude saying "hey i will carry i have the highest rating get me some support" that is still better then "we have riki and lycan and sf mid so i will get phantom lancer incase they all suck".

But dude for the sake of making yourself look not like a douchebag and people turning this into a flame fest dont mention yourself as better then most people. It may be true but most of them will use this to declare this thread as whining
No, it will encourage people to flame and hate more because of "omg you have lower rating than me and so you are a bad carry noob report all plssss" and in all chat as well.

Playing well doesn't mean you are supposed to play the carry.
Most support players suck donkey balls because they don't know what do (read: they compete for lasthits and don't outzone that fucking WR at all).

And if all my 4 carries suck, then get a Mask of Madness and AFK farm the opponents jungle.
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Old 09-08-2012, 11:59 AM   #27
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymen View Post
A visible rating will result in an even worse attitude.
There are stats and there is a rating. There is no need for it to be visible and you gave quite a few reason in your OP why there SHOULDN'T be a rating. People will just look at your profile, say GG and leave. "I won't play with people <70% winrate" I can see it now.
Also, I read some of your posts and they will not be looked at like that. As the OP says, you have to describe the match properly.
Or you could just make it only visible for yourself...
 
Old 09-08-2012, 12:02 PM   #28
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

ребят кто нибудь может помоч с ключем от доты 2? очень уж хочется поиграть в нее,но не могу получить ключ
 
Old 09-08-2012, 12:02 PM   #29
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by zwegat85 View Post
How do you define good games?

Just because you think so, does everybody else think so?

Generalize more pls.
A good game is a game that is exciting.
Currently all games for me are either a stomp, or i can't win because my team is so bad that not even the best dota player ever would be able to win with that team.

Every game I join in dota2 is a pure gamble whenever i'll win or not.
In HoN, I at least know a bit, so it's a bit less of a gamble whenever I will have a good or bad team. Since both teams know about that, the games get more exciting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millennium View Post
Do you want Valve to exclusively release DOTA 2: Ranaki Edition for you as well? So far you have only accomplished giving people here an image of a horrendously selfish person.

The reason why you play dota is not necessarily the reason everyone else should play.
In the poll 50% of the community do want a visible rating.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 12:06 PM   #30
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranaki View Post

In the poll 50% of the community do want a visible rating.
*People who saw the poll.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 12:07 PM   #31
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranaki View Post
A good game is a game that is exciting.
Currently all games for me are either a stomp, or i can't win because my team is so bad that not even the best dota player ever would be able to win with that team.

Every game I join in dota2 is a pure gamble whenever i'll win or not.
In HoN, I at least know a bit, so it's a bit less of a gamble whenever I will have a good or bad team. Since both teams know about that, the games get more exciting.


In the poll 50% of the community do want a visible rating.
the whole community is 274 members?
valve gonna go bankrupt
 
Old 09-08-2012, 12:07 PM   #32
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranaki View Post
So you are implying that currently there are no assholes in the game because there is no rating?
- You just proved yourself a moron.

Currently, there are no good games and a bad attitude between players.
A rating would provide: a bad attiude but GOOD games, which is what I play dota for.




Two words:

Seperate Matchmaking

With an alternative matchmaking, everyone (at least almost everyone) would be satisfied.



But! in HoN I have better matches than in dota2 because the people listen to the one with most rating.

I found the matchmaking system in HoN bad, until I played dota2.

Again: it makes no sense not knowing anything about your teammates in dota.

also, what sunnymarcell said.
Cons > pros. You saying you got better games from HoN O_O i strongly disagree.

I was at 1650-1700+ (impossible to get pass that range, i mostly solo queue) and these pink/blue guys are fcking dicks ALL the time. Anything went wrong will cause ALOT of flaming in team, from 'wow no ward' (which they still say that when the support warded all the time LOL) to 'wow feeder' (the poor support who gave all the cs/hero kill to carry and have a stat of 0/8/10 in the end).

Games were horrible in HoN. People flaming/blaming each other almost every game. I don't give a fck to win/lose, is a fcking game, you try your best and you go play to win, you win sometimes and you lose sometimes but so many of these people use these visible stats as their bragging/griefing rights to blame everyone when the game lost which made the game horrible. Played HoN for 3months and luckily get my beta key very quickly after TI1 and i gtfo and never look back. Note that i am usually the neutral guy in team (rarely get flamed etc) but seeing the orange guy gets flamed so often is just disheartening.
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:11 PM   #33
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Like tobi said (he asked valve the same question back then), the whole point of mm is to let the players have some enjoyable match making game but making stats visible adds absolutely nothing to that purpose.

and yes, if you want, go dotabuff to check out their stats, otherwise, respect your team mates and play your best to win. This goes same way when people look at you, dont tell me you never had an off day.
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:13 PM   #34
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Good behavior is generally valued more than being a good player. You can get banned from the game for your behavior but you can't get banned for being bad at the game. What is a good game for you? Personally, I like to have fun and meet new people.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 12:17 PM   #35
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranaki View Post
In HoN for example I'd know when I reached a new bracket, here is just a guessing game.
That is what bothers me too. They create fucking skill levels but you can't see if you advance or what level you currently are in.
There's certainly a discussion on how much detail the public stats should show but PLEASE PLEASE let me see how I advance/go down again. Ffs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bury View Post
Well, if we still can remember Dota-League, there never was something like "I'm btter than you" attitude. Especially for me. played sig for a long time and never saw one guy with this attitude. btw. the pointsystem works also fine.

€: I'd rather to have a split between serious buisness and funny/custom games.
Ye I was about to mention dota-league too, where it worked pretty good without elitism.
The problem is, people activeley joined dotaleague and the "elitists" stayed on bnet -apem pro rus games, while they're all thrown into matchmaking in dota 2.

For me the elitists aren't the good players but the wannabes that blame everyone but themselves for a loss.
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:17 PM   #36
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

No Freaking points, no thx NO NO NO NONO NON ON ON ON ONONON O NONONONONONO N

FRACKINGLY POINTS OF ANY KIND, NO
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:29 PM   #37
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Ok, so to the last guys that replied:

Why are only the new players and noobs allowed to have a good matchmaking?
Why aren't the good players allowed to have good matches?

We're talking about solo matchmaking now.

The whole point is apparently that the same matchmaking as it is in HoN would ruin the game for the new players.
Problem is:
The game is already getting ruined for the new players EVEN THOUGH there are no stats or any sort of visible ranking.

This means:
Valve's idea has failed. The attitude of the players isn't bad because of the ranking, it's because of something else.
If it were bad because of the ranking, everyone would be kind towards each other in dota2, but that isn't the case at all. THe community in dota2 is as outrageous as in HoN for example.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymen View Post
Good behavior is generally valued more than being a good player. You can get banned from the game for your behavior but you can't get banned for being bad at the game. What is a good game for you? Personally, I like to have fun and meet new people.
Again:
What is the problem with having an alternative matchmaking?
This would be a solution that suits almost everyone.
new players that don't want to be called bad, or you guys for example that want to play with people that don't like to be called bad can continue play the current matchmaking, while most of the elitists will stick to the ranked matchmaking.
Doesn't that sound great?

I can also get to know good and nice people in a matchmaking with stats.
Yet again, if you imply that the attitude of the people in dota2 is any better than in HoN even though dota2 doesn't have stats you are a moron.


Quote:
Originally Posted by burningsera View Post
Like tobi said (he asked valve the same question back then), the whole point of mm is to let the players have some enjoyable match making game but making stats visible adds absolutely nothing to that purpose.

and yes, if you want, go dotabuff to check out their stats, otherwise, respect your team mates and play your best to win. This goes same way when people look at you, dont tell me you never had an off day.
there are still other problems.

imo solo matchmaking should try to be as close as possible to the competitive games.
the current matchmaking seems to focus in order to make players improve themselves. this is plain boring for players like me.

Sure, I have a team I play with, but I want to be able to play solo matchmaking and have good matches like in HoN. I was/am 1850 mmr there and almost every game was a good game in the solo matchmaking.
Unlike in dota2 where every game except for one once in a while is plain shit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pilz View Post
That is what bothers me too. They create fucking skill levels but you can't see if you advance or what level you currently are in.
There's certainly a discussion on how much detail the public stats should show but PLEASE PLEASE let me see how I advance/go down again. Ffs.
+1
I wouldn't even mind if they had sort of ranks for every bracket instead of MMR.
I'd like as much information about myself and my play style and other's on my team as possible in order to know whenever i can rely on my team or have to press the "Pick Lycan" button in order to win.
 
Old 09-08-2012, 12:36 PM   #38
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

valve needs to fix matchmaking so players of the same skill would be put together, stats would accomplish nothing positive and many negatives
 
Old 09-08-2012, 12:41 PM   #39
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

MM sucks as it is right now and I fully support visible ratings. Bad behaviour is not dependant on numbers but on characters and people with bad behaviour will have it now or with visible ratings anyway.

Also, if someone feels bad over his own rating then grow up and stop whining. You can have fun in a game even if you are not good, no need to cry or stop playing because your score is not good. I'm pretty sure I won't be very high ranked but I still support the idea.
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Old 09-08-2012, 12:43 PM   #40
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Default Re: why matchmaking without a visible rating is ba

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentry_ward View Post
Promoting hate is NOT the way to make a multiplayer game, try to think with the "What's more fun?" attitude than the "I should win every game".
I don't promote hate.
In the higher HoN brackets there barely was any flaming going on.

If I have to pick one of those 2 you said:

For new players it would be the "What's more fun?"
for the experienced players it would be "I should win as many games as possible"
 
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