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Old 09-19-2012, 09:23 AM   #41
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Default Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pick?


Quote:
Originally Posted by elan View Post
orb dmg to pure maybe and nerf numbers?
Orb damage is pure already, the problem is that it's blocked by BKB
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:50 AM   #42
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

Ah I see. its weird. Shouldnt it work on autocast like regular orb? or are all hero ability orbs blocked by bkb?
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:52 AM   #43
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

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Originally Posted by elan View Post
Ah I see. its weird. Shouldnt it work on autocast like regular orb? or are all hero ability orbs blocked by bkb?
Are you should you've played this game?
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:57 AM   #44
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

Look at join date lowbie. Well, maybe you think having anime girls in sig and avatar makes U more manly and allows you to act high and all. Small tip: Get a real one.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:42 AM   #45
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

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Originally Posted by elan View Post
Ah I see. its weird. Shouldnt it work on autocast like regular orb? or are all hero ability orbs blocked by bkb?
The Damage is Pure damage. Pure damage gets blocked by BKB. But OD can still do a lot of auto attack damage (since he is int main) against the magic immune hero. BKB doesn't make you invincible against OD. It just reduces the damage youre taking. Also quite funny, the Pure damage works against heroes that are under Omni's ultimate.
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:47 AM   #46
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

Because they didnt pair it with IO. Io gives all Destro needs:

Atack speed.
Some gangs for extra income while farming.
Damage reduction.
Escape through io ulti and Io bonus MS.
A stun.
Movespeed to be able to chase.


Once Destro gets some small farm its like if the fountain takes a haste potion, grabs one testicle, and starts runing arround map killing things in 2 seconds of auto atacks.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:03 PM   #47
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

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Originally Posted by Typhox View Post
The Damage is Pure damage. Pure damage gets blocked by BKB. But OD can still do a lot of auto attack damage (since he is int main) against the magic immune hero. BKB doesn't make you invincible against OD. It just reduces the damage youre taking. Also quite funny, the Pure damage works against heroes that are under Omni's ultimate.
Not exactly. BKB doesn't actually block pure damage. The reason why Arcane Orb gets blocked is because its damage AMOUNT is calculated as pure (not blocked by armour or magic reduction), but its damage TYPE is magic, which is blocked by magic immunity. This is a key difference, because it means that Hood of Defiance as well as AM's Spell Shield do not reduce the damage of Arcane Orb, but BKB, Repel, and Naix's Rage will block Arcane Orb's damage completely. The pure damage also means that armour will not reduce the damage of Arcane Orb, which is why Omni's ultimate, which grants +1000 armour, will not work against it.
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:20 PM   #48
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

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Originally Posted by frivolity View Post
Not exactly. BKB doesn't actually block pure damage. The reason why Arcane Orb gets blocked is because its damage AMOUNT is calculated as pure (not blocked by armour or magic reduction), but its damage TYPE is magic, which is blocked by magic immunity. This is a key difference, because it means that Hood of Defiance as well as AM's Spell Shield do not reduce the damage of Arcane Orb, but BKB, Repel, and Naix's Rage will block Arcane Orb's damage completely. The pure damage also means that armour will not reduce the damage of Arcane Orb, which is why Omni's ultimate, which grants +1000 armour, will not work against it.
Okay, thanks for the scientific explanation. I still prefer the easy to remember one: Pure damage doesn't hit magic immune
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Old 09-19-2012, 03:29 PM   #49
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

lol u are wrong man. there are sources of pure dmg which do dmg magic immune units. It just works like that with OD cuz his orb is in fact spell. maybe your explanation is easy to remember but it isnt by any means true:P
For example omniknights dmg from heal will hit bkbed hero, also true with spectres desolate and pudges hook.
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:47 PM   #50
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

His biggest dilemma is that his damage is more dependant upon his items then most carries... especially when its Int based damage. YOu have to build intelligence which does nothing for survivability. So you'd have to get high int items which gives you maybe 30 str if you build the best str items you can. I feel he would work as a carry but you'd have to plya the 4 protect 1 to make sure he gets all 6 of his items with maybe a BH trying to give you extra money from tracking. If not a morph or sniper or AM would just kill you before you could do anything.

Just wait for medusa and you'll have the truest long range carry you could ever imagine, in the mean time use OD as a pub stomp and when you want to ranged carry go for Sniper/Drow... just make sure you have a really good support and don't go mid
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:20 PM   #51
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

Quote:
Originally Posted by elan View Post
lol u are wrong man. there are sources of pure dmg which do dmg magic immune units. It just works like that with OD cuz his orb is in fact spell. maybe your explanation is easy to remember but it isnt by any means true:P
For example omniknights dmg from heal will hit bkbed hero, also true with spectres desolate and pudges hook.
Well then, but how do you know which skills are magic pure and which are "just" pure?
For example, Sun Ray also doesn't hit Magic Immune.
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Old 09-20-2012, 04:12 AM   #52
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

Could he even last into mid/late game in professional play?
He feels worse than a glass cannon.
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:54 AM   #53
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

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Originally Posted by Typhox View Post
Well then, but how do you know which skills are magic pure and which are "just" pure?
For example, Sun Ray also doesn't hit Magic Immune.
Only way to figure it out is to test it yourself in-game or check the advanced mechanics forum. There should be a full list of which spells deal pure damage with magic attack type, and which spells are pure damage without magic attack.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:49 AM   #54
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

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Originally Posted by elan View Post
Look at join date lowbie. Well, maybe you think having anime girls in sig and avatar makes U more manly and allows you to act high and all. Small tip: Get a real one.
Well that escalated quickly.
It's funny how you feel the need to call me lowbie without even knowing how the internet work, or just fact-checking this very forum, or learn to type in a search box.
Damn standards nowadays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elan View Post
lol u are wrong man. there are sources of pure dmg which do dmg magic immune units. It just works like that with OD cuz his orb is in fact spell. maybe your explanation is easy to remember but it isnt by any means true:P
For example omniknights dmg from heal will hit bkbed hero, also true with spectres desolate and pudges hook.
And here comes the fail train.
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Old 09-20-2012, 06:57 AM   #55
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

Quote:
Originally Posted by elan View Post
orb dmg to pure maybe and nerf numbers?
Orb is already pure..
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:09 AM   #56
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

Quote:
Originally Posted by elan View Post
lol u are wrong man. there are sources of pure dmg which do dmg magic immune units. It just works like that with OD cuz his orb is in fact spell. maybe your explanation is easy to remember but it isnt by any means true:P
For example omniknights dmg from heal will hit bkbed hero, also true with spectres desolate and pudges hook.
You are wrong. Pure damage does not go through BKB. Pudge's hook only drags you to him, it does not damage you. Omni's heal doesn't damage magic immune targets. Get your facts straight.
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Old 09-20-2012, 09:20 AM   #57
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

sorry messed some info with HoN. Anyway got annoyed by the explanation that pure dmg doesnt go through magic immunity, cuz its rly not that simple.
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:26 AM   #58
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

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Originally Posted by elan View Post
sorry messed some info with HoN. Anyway got annoyed by the explanation that pure dmg doesnt go through magic immunity, cuz its rly not that simple.
But pure damage really does not go through magic immunity. There are some spells like Dismember, Primal Roar, Black Hole that partially go through magic immunity. All of them take their effect on the target(s) but don't deal any damage.
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Old 09-20-2012, 10:29 AM   #59
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

Also: http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=204911
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Old 09-20-2012, 04:57 PM   #60
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

since he is obscene destroyable.
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:31 PM   #61
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

its been stated already but basically this is his flaws which make him a risky pick for pro games.

Item dependent meaning he needs a lot of farm
Squishy especially early in the game
Easily countered in the late mid to late game via bkb and orchid

Over all hes too risky to try and use in less hes setup with a team thats looking to win within the first 20 minutes thus not giving the other team any chance to farm anything to counter him but again OD still needs to farm him self to be of any real use.
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:39 PM   #62
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

How about a support role then? Simply providing infinite mana to Your teammates while pushing as well as having a 4 second disable and the ability to burn enemies mana.

His squishines doesnt matter (almost all supports are squishy). Doesnt need items to do those things and lategame hell have some nice damage.

Not to mention he kills illusions very quickly and he doesnt need items to do so.

Naga is pushing with illusions? Send OD, illusions die after a few hits.
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Last edited by RoseEsque; 09-20-2012 at 05:51 PM.
Old 09-20-2012, 05:43 PM   #63
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

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Originally Posted by RoseEsque View Post
Naga is pushing with sirens? Send OD, illusions die after OD is at 1/4 HP and trying to flee from Naga
Yes.
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Old 09-20-2012, 05:51 PM   #64
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

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Originally Posted by Madness101 View Post
Yes.
Thats assuming that naga will be there herself.

If naga nets You, You can prison Yourself which will last for almost the whole duration of net.

You get a carry that does exceptionally well with infinite mana and You roll Your enemies.

Heroes that combo pretty well with OD as a support:
Stalker, Broodmother, Luna, Brewmaster, CK, Gyro, Naga, Jugg, Mirana
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Old 09-21-2012, 12:17 AM   #65
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

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Originally Posted by RoseEsque View Post
Thats assuming that naga will be there herself.

If naga nets You, You can prison Yourself which will last for almost the whole duration of net.

You get a carry that does exceptionally well with infinite mana and You roll Your enemies.

Heroes that combo pretty well with OD as a support:
Stalker, Broodmother, Luna, Brewmaster, CK, Gyro, Naga, Jugg, Mirana
He doesn't have the AS, naga sends 3 illusions which die after 1 or 2 hits, uses riptide and do a couple of hits.

He's just a pile of poo as a support. Where would he get any farm? He can't throw a cash to do a crap, he can't tp to a lane and obliterate the incoming wave of pushing creeps in 2 seconds, and he certainly can't jungle well enough with a complete support set.
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:03 AM   #66
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

People should consider trying to actually get a Rod of Atos instead of rushing Hex and failing to get it on time. Rod of Atos was basically made for OD. Seriously, it gives him 250 HP, 25 intelligence and a slow for him to land those orbs. It's also easier to farm and actually allows him to get an early Vitality Booster, which means a lot for OD.

Also, his ult makes people think that without intelligence items it's useless. That's not true. It will burn almost all the mana of multiple heroes. Even though it does less damage, its still useful. With that being said, Bloodstone is a very good item on OD because, again, it gives him raw HP to survive and the extra mana buffs the orb. Combine that with Rod of Atos and OD is already twice as hard to kill when compared to the Scythe + Force Staff OD. It ahould be your support's job to force staff you away from trouble anyway.

But I agree that OD is weak becauae he is a glass cannon in an era when glass cannons are obsolete. Same goes to the other glass cannons: Sniper, Drow and Shadow Fiend.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:34 AM   #67
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

OD is too easy to be shut down in a fight. Silence or BKB completely nullifies his autocast.
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Old 09-21-2012, 08:58 AM   #68
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

He was a common pick like 2-3 years ago in competitive games. He would still work very well as pick if the lineup was right.

However there is more valid options out there now days... If you want a kind of int carry silencer is a more common choice due to all the silence he brings. As hardcarry you rather want sylla, morph, am and so on.

Problem with that bird is that he needs momentum to be any good, possibile the biggest momentum hero in this game. And he's not like storm that can escape things, he's squishy as hell. A few roamers that can play and he can't really do much for the entire game.

So yes, he's one of the best damage dealers in this game, however to get him there is very hard in CW/Scrims.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:05 AM   #69
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

About support OD not working beacuse of the lack of farm:

Notice that some support items give int, thus giving him damage.

He gets a lot of damage for free basically.

Also, his passive absolutely eliminates the need of getting arcane boots.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:12 AM   #70
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

every popular carry is difficult to gank. od has a pseudo disable and no tank. his dps is pretty high but that's only if people don't get bkb. plus his range is awkward as heck.
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Old 09-21-2012, 09:15 AM   #71
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Default Re: Why is Outworld Destroyer not a competetive pi

I played OD as hard support only once, but it was extremely successfull (I supported a Slardar on the hard lane, harassed, etc). However, that might have been just coincidence.
THe obvious advantage in having him as support is that unlike other supports, he becomes very strong himself into late game, even by buying only support items like Arcane Boots, Mek, Force Staff or Scythe of Vyse.
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