Original heroes

[ShowThemHell]

Originally Posted by Mumbo-Jumbo

How could a spell look that is not possible with the current version of DotA?

He's talking about the future.

Idk anyway. Maybe the spell like Puppet master ultimate?

[DrFrank]

Originally Posted by Mumbo-Jumbo

How could a spell look that is not possible with the current version of DotA?

Tell Cymen to check icewolf's thread in AI/Maps section

[Mumbo-Jumbo]

Originally Posted by ShowThemHell

He's talking about the future.

Idk anyway. Maybe the spell like Puppet master ultimate?

The Puppet Master imbues the essence of a target enemy in his Puppet. The Puppet can then be attacked by the Puppet Master or any of his allies. The puppet takes increased damage, and transfers damage taken to the target as Superior Magic damage.

?
Thats not a problem at all.

[QQWRD]

Want a spell that might probably be a headache/might even be impossible to code in dota?
This ultimate:
Time Paradox
The whole game is reverted to 2 minutes ago. The TimeRipper won't be able to use it's ultimate a second time untill it levels it again.
How to code in dota 2? Take current state used for spectating and make it the current state of the game.

[ShowThemHell]

Hmm...May be that's not what i think his ult is, i don't play HoN anyway.

But how about taking control of an enemy hero for a short period, and being able to use the target's skills to benefit the team.

Or creating an replica of the enemy which is being able to use the skills?

They are may be codable, but it would take a lot of hard works and tons of bugs before finishing.

[RaidenStorms]

Originally Posted by Mumbo-Jumbo

How could a spell look that is not possible with the current version of DotA?

Vector targeting?

EDIT:

I'm just gonna leave this right here.
http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63396

[Mumbo-Jumbo]

^

Dynamically modifying attack range
Buff Timers
Manipulation of cooldowns, checking cooldowns.
Detecting whether damage comes from spells or from attacks.
Detecting critical strikes/bashes/evasion.
Spell Reflection

1. Hard but possible. it would require to retrigger the whole attack of an hero, there were some maps where this was done.
2. Doable aswell, even in the thread is stated that it would just be to much work
3. Doable, take out the cooldown and replace the ability with a ability that you update with a trigger. this ability can show the manacost for the ability and the remaining time of the cooldown as icon if you want it.
3/4. See my statements about damage-detection-systems:
http://www.thehelper.net/threads/dam...-system.48917/
This is a GUI-Solution, there are much more complex and powerfull scripted versions avaible.
5. Doable with damagedetection in any case, also possible with single-target spells right now.

All of them are a little bit complex, but avaible.
Mouse Tracking is possible, but only on terrain (not on the UI).

Originally Posted by ShowThemHell

Hmm...May be that's not what i think his ult is, i don't play HoN anyway.

But how about taking control of an enemy hero for a short period, and being able to use the target's skills to benefit the team.

Or creating an replica of the enemy which is being able to use the skills?

They are may be codable, but it would take a lot of hard works and tons of bugs before finishing.

Hmm, both possible in arround 10 lines.

[RaidenStorms]

So basically, you're going to tell me things which I already knew from that thread and that is: some things are actually doable, but require way too much work and may cause some bugs. We already have bugs, and I don't see how you're going to get rid of them unless you start over on a completely new engine.
Thing is, no on here is underestimating WarCraft 3's capabilities but in terms of thing you can do on a single engine:
Source Engine > WorldEditor + JASS

[QQWRD]

So let me get this straight: you are aware of the limitations, yet you insist that it's better to continue using the old engine? You just say "doable, it's just lots of work". Well, people don't want to spend that much time implementing one feature using 1000 different tricks to achieve something that's far more easy to do if you work within a new engine. Why do you think IF agreed on working on Dota 2 in the first place? He was probably aware of WC3 engine limitation more than you are.

[Mumbo-Jumbo]

Originally Posted by RaidenStorms

So basically, you're going to tell me things which I already knew from that thread and that is: some things are actually doable, but require way too much work and may cause some bugs. We already have bugs, and I don't see how you're going to get rid of them unless you start over on a completely new engine.
Thing is, no on here is underestimating WarCraft 3's capabilities but in terms of thing you can do on a single engine

No. The introduction of a damage-detection-system would reduce bugs, and afaik the makers of LoD-DotA also included a (probably far-from-perfect, but i don't know further details) damage-system without having even access to the unencrypted map. Also the inclusion is not what makes it hard, but that you would have to retrigger/remake many abilities - However, Icefrog should have enoughpeople experienced in Scripting to do this stuff between two versions- the point is more that he doesn't feel like he needs to to so, i suppose.
People stated that DotA hits the limitations of DotA, and this is straightline bullshit - this is everything i say, and if you ask questions/link a thread with wrong informations, i try to make things clear.

Source Engine > WorldEditor + JASS

WorldEditor is not even used to develope DotA anymore afaik (at least icefrog stated this once). It is not a question that the Source-Engine is powerfull, but the possibilities given in Wc3 should reach to do nearly everything you want.

[QQWRD]

Originally Posted by Mumbo-Jumbo

but the possibilities given in Wc3 should reach to do nearly everything you want.

That's the problem: nearly. I do hope we will see exclusive heroes land in Dota 2 "soon".
My experience with JASS scripting is so little I'm not gonna tell you what this unique hero will do, but I'm sure as hell there will be one, sooner or later. Again, Rubick's spellsteal is a good enough example of WC3 limitations.

[kitchen]

This is a game with heroes like Slardar, Lion, Centaur, and Drow. Imagine if those heroes were added now instead of Shredder, Rubick, Wisp, or Slark.

[ralje]

Originally Posted by Mumbo-Jumbo

WorldEditor is not even used to develope DotA anymore afaik (at least icefrog stated this once). It is not a question that the Source-Engine is powerfull, but the possibilities given in Wc3 should reach to do nearly everything you want.

Paliise, make that, gibbe moni.

Also your arguments are stupid. Every engine that you can modify in it's core is better than an engine you can't modify in it's core. Why is your argument stupid? Well first, let's see, wc3 does not support better graphics. WC3's graphics rendering methods are old, compared to the new especially updated for dota with mutliblend and all the new shit Glorious Source Engine.

Let's say, people don't care for graphics, tru dat, but I'll try and point a few things wc3 lacks right now over source:

1. Recording of demos into pictures/movies frame-by-frame method, or any method.
2. Reconnect.
3. Matchmaking, dota stats, you need to use platforms, with different mm dbs, different commands etc. While good in some cases no team MM or anything.
4. Not as flexible as an engine which you can modify at its core, maybe you can do that and this, but you'll never be able to do this nad that. Also the clips you showed that it could be done, yea it could, but does it make it playable? No, it doesn't.
5. No customizations, no steam, no nothing, no automatic updates, maybe it's good for some people, but bad for others.


All your arguments are bad cause:
"Imagine you need to build a house, with WC3 you have a hammer and scissors and a screwdriver, with Source you have every tool you need. That's fine, you can hammer nails and shit, put things, live in the house, maybe even make a stove of some kind to keep you warm during the winter. Yeah, now try to install sun panels, isolation and canalization."


ALSO GLORIOUS SOURCE

GLORIOUS SOURCE

GLORIOUS SOURCE

GLORIOUS SOURCE

GLORIOUS SOURCE

GLORIOUS SOURCE

GLORIOUS SOURCE

GLORIOUS SOURCE

DO THAT IN WC3 NAO! nahp

[Subway]

Rikimaru is an original hero.

[Ritmas]

Originally Posted by ralje

Paliise, make that, gibbe moni.

Also your arguments are stupid. Every engine that you can modify in it's core is better than an engine you can't modify in it's core. Why is your argument stupid? Well first, let's see, wc3 does not support better graphics. WC3's graphics rendering methods are old, compared to the new especially updated for dota with mutliblend and all the new shit Glorious Source Engine.

Let's say, people don't care for graphics, tru dat, but I'll try and point a few things wc3 lacks right now over source:

1. Recording of demos into pictures/movies frame-by-frame method, or any method.
2. Reconnect.
3. Matchmaking, dota stats, you need to use platforms, with different mm dbs, different commands etc. While good in some cases no team MM or anything.
4. Not as flexible as an engine which you can modify at its core, maybe you can do that and this, but you'll never be able to do this nad that. Also the clips you showed that it could be done, yea it could, but does it make it playable? No, it doesn't.
5. No customizations, no steam, no nothing, no automatic updates, maybe it's good for some people, but bad for others.


All your arguments are bad cause:
"Imagine you need to build a house, with WC3 you have a hammer and scissors and a screwdriver, with Source you have every tool you need. That's fine, you can hammer nails and shit, put things, live in the house, maybe even make a stove of some kind to keep you warm during the winter. Yeah, now try to install sun panels, isolation and canalization."


ALSO GLORIOUS SOURCE

GLORIOUS SOURCE

GLORIOUS SOURCE

GLORIOUS SOURCE

GLORIOUS SOURCE

GLORIOUS SOURCE

GLORIOUS SOURCE

GLORIOUS SOURCE

DO THAT IN WC3 NAO! nahp

and another the dude is talking about spells, world editor possabilities, this douche speaks about client possabilities.

[ralje]

No, dumbass, if you read carefully the whole conversation goes from heros wc3, to how wc3 lacks to source, that's why he posted those videos, to prove wc3 doesn't lack, but it does. It does.

[Mumbo-Jumbo]

Originally Posted by ralje

Paliise, make that, gibbe moni.

Would take to long, but i can give you a crisis-like 10000-barrel explosion:
http://www.load.to/vExEZQV1KC/10000_...ng_barrels.w3x
type "explode" to trigger 8)

Also your arguments are stupid. Every engine that you can modify in it's core is better than an engine you can't modify in it's core. Why is your argument stupid? Well first, let's see, wc3 does not support better graphics. WC3's graphics rendering methods are old, compared to the new especially updated for dota with mutliblend and all the new shit Glorious Source Engine.

1. It is possible to modify wc3 at core, but it is not wished by the community.
2. Wc3 supports better graphics (then used now). Just look a bit arround in the Toolssection.
Looks like not my arguments but you are stupid.

Let's say, people don't care for graphics, tru dat, but I'll try and point a few things wc3 lacks right now over source:

1. Recording of demos into pictures/movies frame-by-frame method, or any method.

Try Replays.

2. Reconnect.

Stop playing bnet.

3. Matchmaking, dota stats, you need to use platforms, with different mm dbs, different commands etc. While good in some cases no team MM or anything.

Easy to integrate, integrated in the most communitys.

4. Not as flexible as an engine which you can modify at its core, maybe you can do that and this, but you'll never be able to do this nad that. Also the clips you showed that it could be done, yea it could, but does it make it playable? No, it doesn't.

The Flight simulator is still full playable in multiplayer. The Ego-Shooter can be recreated for actuall versions.

5. No customizations

Lol, wut?

no steam

I consider this as an advantage - while i do not complete refuse to use DRM, i'm happy when i don't have to.

no nothing

?

no automatic updates

Can be done, just check out the link i posted earlier in this thread.

maybe it's good for some people, but bad for others.

wut?

All your arguments are bad cause:

Actually, i just showed up that all your arguments mainly base on missing knowledge.

"Imagine you need to build a house, with WC3 you have a hammer and scissors and a screwdriver, with Source you have every tool you need. That's fine, you can hammer nails and shit, put things, live in the house, maybe even make a stove of some kind to keep you warm during the winter. Yeah, now try to install sun panels, isolation and canalization."

You are aware that WoW is nothing but a improved wc3-engine?

[QQWRD]

Originally Posted by Ritmas

and another the dude is talking about spells, world editor possabilities, this douche speaks about client possabilities.

Spell discussion? I though it was over, but ok! Again, tell me moar about that Rubick's ultimate. I bring evidence to my point, where's your evidence of WC3 being flexible enough to make it work properly?

[ralje]

Oh, lol I thought I was in a reasonable conversation, excuse me. I can still argue, but I just don't wanna waste time, play your modern wc3 engine and I'll play my old source.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Ritmas

What a great contribution you've done to the argument, Mr. Freeman.

Oh sorry, I forgot, you were mute.

I can already feel a fanfic of this guy and mumbo jumbo fapping to WC3 Engine together. I wish I didn't but it's that much those two guys love that ancient engine.