[MECHANICS] Rearm

[FireS]

Thanks to Cp6uja_ for giving me the idea for this buff in this post.

As we all know rearm is so annoying when leveled up early in game, as it makes the skill useless due to it's mana cost.
So I thought this buff could spice it up a little bit!

Changelog:

• 24/11/09 - Changed the shift queue system (Thanks to Dynes and green.bear).
• 26/11/09 - Changed the topic title to fit the mechanical change rather than the buff. Also added the "Unnecesary buff" reply to the CONS section.

Changes are in green

Rearm - (Channeling) After a certain time to focus, reloads the Tinker's weapons.

Notes:

Basically, this allows Tinker to decide whether if he wants or not to use his ulti lvl 3, 2 or 1, depending on the situation.

• If the channeling is aborted after the rearm time is reached, the mana recover won't happen but rearm effect is still there.
• When shift-queued, the next action will happen after the rearm occurs, not the whole channeling (Thanks to Dynes and green.bear).

PROS:

• [+] Better use of higher levels Rearm.
• [+] The mana cost does not change if the skill needs to be used as it is actually.
• [+] Skill can be leveled early.

CONS:

• [-] Difficult to code?
• [-] Some people may say it's unbalanced and Tinker do not need a buff

[Dynes]

Erm, the reflex/shift queue guys might complain, and not that its difficult to code...
It could just be simultaneous +75 mana/sec for 3 s (cancellable), and a -425 mana/sec for 1 sec (then a rearm), it achieves your desired effect for that lvl3 (whch is -350 mana for 1s, +75 mana/s afterwards)...

I did think of something as granting some little mana regen afterwards, but Rearm is just rearm, it resets skill cooldowns, why want more?

[FireS]

Originally Posted by Dynes

Erm, the reflex/shift queue guys might complain, and not that its difficult to code...
It could just be simultaneous +75 mana/sec for 3 s (cancellable), and a -425 mana/sec for 1 sec (then a rearm), it achieves your desired effect for that lvl3 (whch is -350 mana for 1s, +75 mana/s afterwards)...

I did think of something as granting some little mana regen afterwards, but Rearm is just rearm, it resets skill cooldowns, why want more?

It's not that I'm really making it imba. The main reason for this buff is that the manacost increase is so huge, that makes this skill not being leveled when it's suposed to. Which IMO is not the purpose of an ulti.

However, you cannot just lower the cost as, like you said, it gives quite a great effect. With this, you can level your rearm normally, and balance will still be there when needed, don't you think?

[Dynes]

Yeah, but its much easier now, before there was no potential endgame items like Bloodstone, easy area damage/slow/+int items like Shiva's Guard, etc... (BKB nerf...)

Refresher -> 375 Mana, 180 cooldown.
Rearm -> 350 Mana, 1 second cast time, almost no cooldown.

Tinker will either farm or kill heroes fast to get sufficient items to counter the mana cost, every second counts in a fight, and there is a heavy price to pay. So null for now.

[JJE92]

At first I didnt really get the idea, but now that I understand it, I like the idea.
But the channeling might actually be a huge nerf for Rearm in certain situations, thats what I dislike.

[Stomp]

great idea!
just add some special effect on tinker after each second for better control

[BorisPeace-]

T-Down. Mana cost is high with a reason. I doesn't mean you should get just the first level and that's it. It gives you MUCH more control in teamfights. However without enough mana/manaregen (aka getting your first mystic staff) you shouldn't level it up.

[FireS]

Originally Posted by BorisPeace

T-Down. Mana cost is high with a reason. I doesn't mean you should get just the first level and that's it. It gives you MUCH more control in teamfights. However without enough mana/manaregen (aka getting your first mystic staff) you shouldn't level it up.

Did you read it well?
This skill does not improve manacost at all. Stays the same but allows you to use either 3, 2 or 1 second rearm based on channeling.

People nowadays only skills lvl 1 just because mana cost improves DRAMATICALLY and untill lvl 14 or so you don't even have enough mana to use it correctly.

Anyway thanks for the feedback!

[Zack1996]

I don't really know about this. Lategame, Tinker needs to spam his skills more than ever. If he stands there channeling, it would be kinda bad, since he may be owned outright.

Anyway, I'm ok with this suggestion, if Tinker players like it. Kinda interesting, but somehow rather complex IMO.

[green.bear]

Might be kind've a pain for shift-queue as mentioned. I wonder if there would be some way around that; could you somehow make the channel for healing mana occur after the rearm so queues would move? That would mess up people that would want to queue after full manaing, but... As for the idea I do like it. Initially I was turned off because I saw buff on the same line as rearm, but all this is is allowing you to use a lower level of your ultimate. I think it's pretty ingenious. There are a couple times I wish I hadn't leveled something up because the mana cost screws you, this is a pretty neat idea. Hope it gets implemented, gl.

[FireS]

Originally Posted by Zack1996

I don't really know about this. Lategame, Tinker needs to spam his skills more than ever. If he stands there channeling, it would be kinda bad, since he may be owned outright.

Anyway, I'm ok with this suggestion, if Tinker players like it. Kinda interesting, but somehow rather complex IMO.

Originally Posted by green.bear

Might be kind've a pain for shift-queue as mentioned. I wonder if there would be some way around that; could you somehow make the channel for healing mana occur after the rearm so queues would move? That would mess up people that would want to queue after full manaing, but... As for the idea I do like it. Initially I was turned off because I saw buff on the same line as rearm, but all this is is allowing you to use a lower level of your ultimate. I think it's pretty ingenious. There are a couple times I wish I hadn't leveled something up because the mana cost screws you, this is a pretty neat idea. Hope it gets implemented, gl.

Thanks for feedback! As for Zack's question: Channeling can always be cancelled via other actions, so it's not a problem for skill spam....

UNLESS you are talking of what green.bear points out (I did not think about this, actually).
It's a BIG problem that I did not think of, the queues. It'd be really good, for example, to make any queue cancel channeling after rearm occurs, so the mana healing would not happen at all.
Thanks for pointing out, (Dynes was first but I did not understand him at all).

I'll wait for a few suggestions and add this one to the topic.

Thanks all!!!

[FireS]

^ Added the suggest + added a changelog.

Can someone make a testmap for this? I know nothing of mapmaking >_<

Thanks!

[NoThlnG]

T-Up. At first, I misunderstood it but now, I understand. Really nice idea

[FireS]

Originally Posted by NoThlnG

T-Up. At first, I misunderstood it but now, I understand. Really nice idea

Thanks for support

[JohnnyBalboa]

T-up no question...It's not a great buff (he doesn't need) just balanced....

[Ali Radicali]

T-down, Tinker doesn't need a buff. Learn to skill Rearm when you need it. No need to dumb down the skill, if you level it too early it's your own damn fault isn't it?

[FireS]

Originally Posted by Ali Radicali

T-down, Tinker doesn't need a buff. Learn to skill Rearm when you need it. No need to dumb down the skill, if you level it too early it's your own damn fault isn't it?

As everybody is understanding this as a buff, I just renamed the topic title.

@Ali Radicali

Well, it's not my fault that a skill gets useless when I level up when I am supossed to.
Ok, you DO know when to level the skill because you have been in a lot of games and you do understand that this skill wastes a lot of mana when used but... what about the people that levels the skill when the cap is removed? (6, 11, 16).

Appart from that, on a higher level of metagame, the big difference with tinker is that leveling this skill early will make your farming skills SO MUCH slower than before. (As you need to go back tped a lot more).

Notice that tinker does have an ulti with 0 cooldown, while any other ulti is either a passive either an ultimate with big cooldown, allowing the user to use it once ocasionally and in a situoational manner or maybe a combo.

However, tinker DEPENDS on his ultimate a few minutes later in mid-game, as his killing capabilities become WAY weaker (No extra nukes, extra DPS or anything) than any other caster (Lina, lion, jakiro, lich..).

Why would I loose something (Farm / kill) just because I leveled up my ultimate? Isn't it suposed to be better with more levels? For me, it's senseless.
So I decided that, instead of buffing the skill, just let the user decide wheter he wants to use ulti lvl 1, lvl 2 or 3 which makes both, the balance and the consistance work.

I hope you understand my point

Anyway thanks for the feedback, positive and negative!!

[SeaErChin]

T-Up. I seriously need this for my tinker @ level 11. Current one costs too much mana for you to use it effectively without a imba mana pool. So you need to use BoT, return to fountain, regain mana and tp back to spam. That combined with the high mana cost of your spells means that you won't be effective without a high mana pool. this would partially solve that problem! t-up!

[FireS]

Thanks for support!

Does anyone know a good mapmaker so I can actually ask for a testmap for this? ^^

[p811025]

Hey, I think you should make level 3 to restore 100 mana on the second and third second. So if you channel 2 seconds, it is the same as level 2 ult, and 3 seconds is same as level 1 ult.

definitely t-up.

Edit: sorry, dont know any map maker. And to the people who this is a buff, its not. It just allow you to use level 3 ult as level 1 or 2 ult.

Edit 2: after thinking about it, the only buff on this suggestion is that tinker won't lose all the mana he used to cast when he is interrupted. But he is also nerfed since he need extra mana finish rearm before he restores mana.