[Remake][Skill][Warp Mana]

[Thiede]

Mana Break as a skill is ok as it is. But AM as a hero needs a boost. Mana Warp helps AM to carry.

Original Skill: Mana Break (Antimage, Necro Warrior)

This remake would not change Necro Warrior but focus only on Antimage.


Warp Mana

Description: Each attack warps mana into a corrupted form based on skill level. The corruption state of mana temporarily induces a stygian damage element.

Level 1: Dissipates 8 mana and reduces armor by 0.08% mana pool per hit. Stacks, lasts 8 sec per charge.

Level 2: Dissipates 16 mana and reduces armor by 0.08% mana pool per hit. Stacks, lasts 8 sec per charge.

Level 3: Dissipates 24 mana and reduces armor by 0.08% mana pool per hit. Stacks, lasts 8 sec per charge.

Level 4: Dissipates 32 mana and reduces armor by 0.08% mana pool per hit. Stacks, lasts 8 sec per charge.

Target 1000 mana: 0.08% of 1000=0.8
-0.8 armor per hit
Takes 7.5 hits to match up with desolator's -6.
Target 2000 mana: 0.08% of 2000=1.6
-1.6 armor per hit
Takes 3.75 hits to match up with desolator -6.

Some Cons:
Less damage earlygame.
Indirect nerf to mana void.
Lowered amt of mana burnt, but Manta Style solves this

Some Pros:
Less damage on non-mages, more damage on mages.
More damage lategame, may open up carry possibility.
Not imba early game.
You may hit the max -20 armor. But only when you're very lucky (hits to accumulate -20 armor within 8 sec)

Balance:
1)Maybe make the -armor ability not carry over to illusions.
2)Maybe make the mana warped deal no damage. Or 0.4 damage per mana point.
3)Burns too little mana? Maybe 25% chance to warp 2X mana.




Reason:
The controversy: Being the anti-mage, Magina's role was supposedly to drain the largest mana pools in seconds. This was supposed to eventually silence the mages and prep up his devastating mana void. But in reality, that would be imba and gets people's knickers in a twist. It's imba even if you balanced it such that you burn less mana from agi and str heroes. Not to forget Manta Style, which triples his mana break.

Leave that mana burn role to illusion heroes like PL, period.

Furthermore, the current situation is such that Manta Style burns 3X mana and forces Magina to rely on his Mana Void. Mana Void is essentially a high CD, situational skill with the damage 100% dependent on missing mana. Best used as a finisher to NK (net kill) or KS (kill steal). No team support.



Inspired by a post I made:

Re: [Buff] Yet another Magina overhaul

Originally Posted by Calanthe

That's where the controversy lies. Being the anti-mage, Magina's role was supposedly to drain the largest mana pools in seconds. This was supposed to eventually silence the mages and prep up your devastating mana void. But in reality, that would be imba and gets people's knickers in a twist. It's imba even if you balanced it such that you burn less mana from agi and str heroes. Not to forget Manta Style. On hindsight, Manta Style... your suggestion would be insane.

Hmm... because it seems most people are so opposed to having mana break burning more mana, I suggest do it the other way around. Burn less mana but do something else like reduce armor or deal more damage. So magina is less dependent mana void, more dependent on whacking. And balance it such that heroes with higher mana pools get more damage. After all, we want to deal damage not empty mana pools but merely scratching our targets.

Warp Mana
Maybe this could work:
Level 4: Dissipates 32 mana and deal 1.2 damage for each mana point

Or:
Warp Mana
Level 4: Dissipates 32 mana and reduces armor by 0.1% mana pool per hit. Stacks, lasts 5 sec per charge.

1000 mana: -1 armor per hit
Takes 6 hits to match up with desolator.
2000 mana: -2 armor per hit
Takes 3 hits to match up with desolator.

Maybe I'll go start my own suggestion. You are allowed to use mind if you wish.

[Roger Black]

So, the -armor is based on max mana pool, not current mana pool?
Is it still an orb effect?

[Thiede]

Originally Posted by rogerblack

So, the -armor is based on max mana pool, not current mana pool?
Is it still an orb effect?

Yes, based on max mana pool. If it was based on current mana we've more to code wouldn't we? And mages get punished less after when we've just reduced their mana? Then there's no point in reducing mana in the first place,wouldn't it? It doesn't matter anyway: if it's based on max mana pool then numbers will be lower; based on current mana then numbers higher

It should still be an orb effect. Like I said if there is really an issue with burning too little mana we can do either:
- increase mana void numbers
Or
- % chance to burn more mana

[Nerevarie]

AM is good LEAVE HIM A LONE

[Thiede]

Originally Posted by The-Shaman

AM is good LEAVE HIM A LONE

Sure sure. He's good. He's fun. But his power is diminishing as the metagame evolves. There are getting more and more disables and he has no protection from them. Furthermore he is moving too far away from being an Anti-mage as his effectiveness against mages is decreasing. I don't want to give a history lesson but in the past, the metagame had less disables and more pure nukes so his spell shield was useful. Now disables just go thru any protection he has. Getting Heart or Linkens on him solves things but are we really gonna waste his slots and let him come out as a tank with mediocre damage output? It would be a shame because he is agility and need to produce damage rather than be a tank.

Ok, my remake does not solve his survivability problems or attempts to do so. That is not the intention. Leave him fragile. What my suggestion intends to do however, is potentially open up another playstyle/role for AM: carry. I find that after the linkens and heart he becomes shit in terms of damage output and useless.

EDIT: The short version: he is fragile so balance it with more damage output. Increase his offense capabilities.

[InNeedOfFreedom]

AM needs a remake
his skills really does not synergies
and very hard to farm with no farming tool
and QB overrides mana break

[hajasmarci]

Originally Posted by NeoFreedom

and QB overrides mana break

rly? :O

[Thiede]

Originally Posted by NeoFreedom

AM needs a remake
his skills really does not synergies
and very hard to farm with no farming tool
and QB overrides mana break

QB does not override mana break
But yes, without any farming tool he's shit. But with a farming tool he can be a farming god.

[yami-joey]

I'll just say I would t-Up with this, Magina really needs something new IMO.

[Thiede]

Originally Posted by yami-joey

I'll just say I would t-Up with this, Magina really needs something new IMO.

One of the reason for the remake was because I had the same opinion as you: "Magina really needs something new". AOE to mana void? new visuals for blink and mana void? Icefrog is basically putting a new layer of carpet over a rotten carpet. The hero is essentially the same under the pretense

[The Clown]

Perhaps I'll get flamed for this, but the AM from Heroes of Newerth (called Magebane - inspired, right?) is far superior to this one. His blink not only increases his Magic Resistance, but adds a bit to all surrounding allies and and his passive deals damage based on how much mana an enemy spell costs to cast.

If you're interested, clicky.
http://heroes-newerth.com/heroes/magebane

[mingwoon]

edit : wrong thread

[Fire525]

I don't think this is a bad idea, but any remake will upset people. I find the current AM fun to play, but I can see why people say that he has lost his effectiveness against mages

[xy4kuz4x]

do not fit with his theme

[Thiede]

Originally Posted by xy4kuz4x

do not fit with his theme

Ah, that is precisely what I have given up on: making something that fits his theme. Anyway many heroes have skills that don't fit their theme and still do well. Do you realize that there can never ever be a true Anti-mage? Think about it.

1) Give him anti-disable... people will whine imba because he already has blink. Any build-in linken or repel makes him irritatingly hard to kill for several mage users.

2) Give him silence, people whine because they say there's already the silencer. Orchid malevolence. Many silence skills in the game already. No originality.

3) Give him AOE burn a la Nether Ward, give him Mana Leak like KotL, can you guess the public reaction?

4) Touch his Blink in any way... good luck with that.

5) Give him any active skill. Reply: he has no mana to support. Curse his intel growth.

6) A good way to make an Anti-mage is to have spell shield incorporated into his base stats. Every hero starts with 25% but maybe he could have more, like 35%? 50%? Pumping spell shield in the laning phase is too defensive and a waste. He also needs a harassing skill, like Mana Burn. These are logical solutions but unfortunately upsets balance. And if put into the game will make the noobs rush to pick him.

Most mages have too good disables. Well, a good Anti-mage needs a good anti-disable.

Most mages have good laning ability and early game. They rely on a good early game. Well, a good Anti-mage needs even better laning ability than those mages. He needs to destroy their early game. Our current AM is useless early and mages destroy his early game. Then he relies on luck in the lategame to attempt to kill mages. At this very point we have Guinsoo's Hex. Shiva's armor. Good luck!

What is left: continue to buff his anti-mage abilities or focus on something else: carry. Now that will help him in pubs at least? Now I know my remake does not help much but it is better than nothing. Imagine: Another DotA version and Soul Steal remains unchanged. That was just an example. As the metagame evolves Magina is just going down the drain. We don't want him to end up like Soul Steal. Useless and defunct.

Sure you can have allies to help you disable. But then I can try to be smart: I can also create a skill for a new item: magina-nomicron: summons an anti-mage to fight for you. Has spell shield, mana break, etc. There's no difference.

If Icefrog seriously wants to remake this hero he should create a thread in the Requests forum to discuss.