Skill and item request restrictions.

[The Observer]

What are they?

there's "you cannot lessen the enemy heroes money" and "gain interest by not buying anything". i don't want everything to flood into my mind so if anyone can post it here it'll be a great help.

and if anyone can post "everything" (that is also the ones icefrog might not accept) that'll be great. and if a there's already an existing topic, please close this and post the link here.

Some stuff to remember:
1. Use these as guidelines, not as limit setters. There's the law, but i won't believe that someone who has read this hasn't listened to torrented music.
2. The skill restrictions mostly apply to normal skills.
3. Icefrog can break any rules himself because he's chuck norris.


Current List:

Heroes:
1. Cannot construct permanent structures.
2. Cannot have skills that can repair damaged towers. (Exception is Living Armor)
3. Cannot have skills that can affect enemy hero's XP and Gold.
4. Cannot have skills that can affect your XP and Gold. (Exception is Goblin's Greed and Track)
5. Cannot have skills that have 5 effects.
6. Cannot have a skill that gives you more money when not buying anything.
7. Cannot have an "Unlearn" Skill.
8. Summon skills are overused and "may" possibly be not implemented
9. Fire, Earth, Ice, and Lightning themes are overused and "may" not be implemented.
10. True sight skills are prohibited. (True sight skill which is like a magic sentry effect, not a single targeted true sight skill like track)
11. Skills that gives global sight(Omniscience) is prohibited
12. Skills that grants Instant kill to enemies (Exception is Demonic Conversion and Death Pact)
13. Resurrection skill, whether single or area resurrect (Exception is Skeleton King's ult)
14. Skill that renders you invulnerable. (Exception is song of the siren)
15. Skills that enables you to make weapons.

Items:
1. Items that are only combining them into one slot but has the same effect (S&Y is an exception)
2. Whole recipe price should not exceed 7000 gold. (i think Dagon is an exception)
3. Should not have 5 or more effects (exception is S&Y and i think Assault Cuirass)
4. Items that increases gold (Exception is Hand of Midas)
5. Items that gives you more money/interest by not buying anything.
6. Items with ripoffs of heroes' skills (Midas with goblins greed, etc.)
7. Items that use consumables as recipes
8. Items that use items that drops upon death in the recipe.
9. Items that increases XP gain is unacceptable.(Exception is bloodstone)
10. Items that grants Omniscience
12. Items that grants instant kill to enemies
13. Items with resurrection skill (Exception is aegis, which is not purchasable)
14. Items that gives permanent stat bonuses that doesn't occupy any inventory space (Tomes)
15. Items that will exceed a bonus of 60% attackspeed
16. Items that will exceed a bonus of +90 movespeed
17. Items that will exceed a bonus of +35 stats to a single attribute
18. items that will exceed a bonus of +15 armor
19. The use of Buriza, Divine, HoT, Skadi, Satanic, Butterfly, MKB, Radiance, Guinsoo, Refresher, and possibly Assault in any recipe is not allowed (since it will break Rule 2)
20. Items that affects the cooldown or manacost of skills(Exception is Refresher)
21. Items should not exceed the value of 8000 gold.
22. Items that renders you invulnerable.
23. Items that give you more inventory slot.

[Lill]

Add heroes that build towers or buildings to that list. They we're forbidden on DA, so they should be here too.

[NoThlnG]

Items that is merely combining several items or effects such as item with critical strike and maim, etc.

[Zirath]

There is a whole list of rules for things:

http://forums.dota-allstars.com/inde...owtopic=281580

Maybe someone should make this thread and sticky it.

[crazy sheep]

What I remember off the top of my head:

Skills:

Should not be allowed to build or repair [existing] buildings. Obvious exceptions so far have been Living Armour [repairs towers] and Tombstone [summons building].
Should not affect enemy gold and xp collection.
Should not affect your own hero's xp collection.
Should not have more than 4 different effects. For example:

Originally Posted by allowed skills

Shadow Strike deals damage [+1 effect] and slows [+1 effect] -> allowed.
Adaptive Strike deals damage [+1 effect], stuns [+1 effect] and knockbacks [+1 effect] -> allowed.

Items:

Should not cost more than 7000 gold for the total build, ie: items and recipes.
Should not grant more than 5 different effects. The reason for this is because of the balance involved. You don't need an item with 7 different auras, not including the stats, damage, MS/AS, HP, mana and armour grants yet.

Originally Posted by The only exception

The only exception to this rule so far is Sange and Yasha, due to the subpar effects it grants: +16 Str [+1 effect], +16 Agi [+1 effect], +12% MS [+1 effect], +12 damage [+1 effect], +15 AS [+1 effect], Greater Maim orb[+1 effect] -> total of 6 effects.

[Zirath]

Sange and Yasha isn't an exception because stat bonuses and AS/MS bonuses can be paired together, so over all its only 4 effects. Yasha's AS/MS is based on Endurance Aura.

The 5 effects clause is not for balance. It is because the game engine will not allow more than 5 effects on an item.

[The Observer]

yeah i remember that items shouldn't have 5 effects and cost more than 7k gold and that you cannot just stack effects in one item to be able to like put 2 items in 1 slot (my first item idea had all of this restrictions)

and yes, sticky those rules in here also. Or Ice could implement new/lesser ones.

[crazy sheep]

Originally Posted by Zirath

The 5 effects clause is not for balance. It is because the game engine will not allow more than 5 effects on an item.

AFAIK, the only time stat bonuses can be combined is when all stats are raised by the same amount. Hence:

Originally Posted by effects

Circlet of Nobility -> +2 Str, +2 Agi, +2 Int -> 1 effect overall

but

Wraith Band -> +6 Agi, +3 Str, +3 Int -> 3 effects overall

As for the game engine, someone told me he coded an item with 6 auras.
[This is from the Phase Scythe item suggestion.]

Originally Posted by GetTriggerUnit-

I actually found the way to add more than 4 abilities. It was kinda simple. See my map, the item has 7 abilities, 1 castable spell and 6 auras. It doesn't even requires trigger.

T-up for your item buddy.

[Zirath]

Hrm, that interesting, but I would have to see the map for myself.

And no it can be different stat bonuses. Check the World Editor, the ability to change stats does not have to be a static value for all 3 stats.

EDIT: Okay, he manually changed the string. You can do that in TFT, but you couldn't in RoC. Though it is generally discourage because changing values in that way sometimes creates bugs. For example, you can make Shackles heal someone without triggering, but it sometimes bugs and doesn't work.

[doomsheep]

4. Cannot have skills that can affect your XP and Gold.

track is an exception D:

EDIT: i dont get this (from the old forum)

It is also recommended that the following items not be used in recipes:
Hyperstone
...

whats wrong with hypers?

[Zirath]

Originally Posted by doomsheep

whats wrong with hypers?

I've wondered about that too. Does anyone know the reason for that?

[Chreepac]

Why would you ever restrict your ideas? Some pretty dumb restrictions, but apparently it is A-OK if Icefrog breaks any of them, then its considered quite a remarkable move.

[k900]

Add to items:

- items that allow a hero to unlearn their current skill points and pick new, i.e. Tome of Retraining. It's been said that such items will cause bugs.

- items that modify exp gain are forbidden. I guess because of balance issues.

- items that modify attack range. Perhaps balance issues again.

@above poster - some restrictions will not be broken. Ever. And most of those that were actually broken were mere recomendations, not restricting the suggesters in any way.

[1nvok3r]

Originally Posted by asam3

4. Cannot have skills that can affect your XP and Gold.

Lolgoblinsgreed

[crazy sheep]

Some more restrictions I recalled after waking up this morning.

Items:

All item suggestions should NOT rip off skills from existing heroes.
All non-basic items should preferably retain the original grants from their components. Exceptions are usually allowed in the case of removing damage grants to fulfill the "5 effects" rule, eg: Perseverance loses the +10 damage grant when you upgrade it to Bloodstone.

Originally Posted by grants retained

Wraith Band retains the +Agi from Slippers of Agility and also retains the +all stats from Circlet.

Max AS grant: 55% -> Hyperstone already fulfills this criterion.
Max MS grant: 90 -> Boots of Travel already fulfills this.
Max stat grant: 35 of any stat. -> HoT [+35 Str], Mjollnir [+35 Agi]
The following items are highly discouraged in making new items:

Originally Posted by discouraged items

Gem of True Sight
Hyperstone
Any of the 2 wards
Any Tier 4 item - especially Boots of Travel

=============================================
@Chreepac: These restrictions are more for balance than to restrict creativity. For example, if you gave every hero a 2 second Storm Bolt-like item, that would more or less ruin games.

@k900: Bloodstone - modifies XP gain.

@Zirath: Didn't realize that stat gains are one effect only, thanks for pointing that out.

@asam3:

5. Items that gives you more money by not buying anything.

Didn't really get that, could you explain please?

[Lifeburns]

@above: he mean some item that give you interest.

Cp6uja_ has been stressing items shouldn't be made of consumables.
Goblin's Greed affect the gold you get, in some way.

[NoThlnG]

Items that uses consumable item like Potion, Tango, Portal, etc.

Items that uses droppable item like Gem, Divine, etc. (I don't know whether this is forbidden or strongly discouraged)

Item that uses kellen dagger of escape.

[cezar_sl]

Originally Posted by k900

Add to items:

- items that allow a hero to unlearn their current skill points and pick new, i.e. Tome of Retraining. It's been said that such items will cause bugs.
True. A lot of triggers run when "A unit learns a skill".

- items that modify exp gain are forbidden. I guess because of balance issues.
Obvious.

- items that modify attack range. Perhaps balance issues again.
it's a coding issue. i've run into it on DA.com a while ago while making a hero. It's easy to add attack range, but really hard to take it back (i.e. drop the item).

@above poster - some restrictions will not be broken. Ever. And most of those that were actually broken were mere recomendations, not restricting the suggesters in any way.

Most of these rules are common sense.
Also, why are you guys even discussing this? (When some of you have no idea what the W3 engine can and cannot do).

[chadpiety123]

I think repairing towers should be allowed as long as it is not the core effect or the only effect of the skill, rather it should only be a side effect, and the skill in itself should fulfill a role in fights and stuff. Considering that it is a burst repair, it should be negligible enough to allow a tower kill.

[mjs]

Maybe skills and items that grant instant/immediate resurrection of heroes or buildings should also be included here.