[Neutral/AGI] Murkfin the Loner (Murloc!)

[babohtea]

*Remember that all numbers can and will be changed*
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Change Log:

7/27/09

• Added hero idea to playdota.com. Included 2 original skills and ultimate.
• Replaced Forsaken Bonds with Mutual Banishment as the Ultimate
• Reworked Fear Toxin
• Added Shadow Walk

7/28/09

• Edited Color Scheme of Icons

7/29/09

• Changed Name to Murkfin.
• Tweaked skills to account for summons.
• Allowed spells coming from within Mutual Banishment to have full effect.
• Changed pinging of piercing scream to vision.
• Replaced Shadow Walk with Curse of Solitude.
• Readjusted Piercing Scream to reduce damage and give move speed instead of slowing.
  

7/28/09

• Edited Color Scheme of Icons

10/18/09

• Revived Murkfin
• Reworked Fear Toxin to make it unique from Desolate
• Reworked Curse of Solitude to compensate for changes in Fear Toxin.
  

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Under Construction

Please note that this hero idea is not complete, many abilities may be swapped in and out and it is even missing a skill. Message me if you have suggestions for the third skill. I'm mainly looking for feedback on my current ideas, not an approval of the entire hero yet. I'll be sure to update this when I feel it is ready to be "scrutinized".
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Hero Info

Murkfin
the Loner

Affiliation: Neutral
Model: Murloc Nightcrawler (Warcraft III - Neutral -> Creeps -> Murloc)
Theme: Loneliness, darkness, despair.
Roles: Pseudo-initiator/chaser.
Attributes and Stat Growth: Coming Soon
Starting Stats: Coming Soon
Attack range: 150 (melee)
Movement Speed: 315

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Skills

Piercing Shriek

Description: Murkfin releases a piercing scream, striking fear into the hearts of those who hear it. Deals damage and slows. If the targets are alone, the effects of their terror are amplified and their location will be known to him. Sensing their fear, Murkfin's speed increases in order to hunt them down.
AOE: 1000
Skill Type: Active, AOE around self, self-buff.
Cooldown: 11/10/9/8
Manacost: 75/75/75/75
Cast Time: Instant (no casting animation)

Level 1 - 25 damage, Gains vision for 2 seconds and stuns for 1 seconds if alone.

Level 2 - 50 damage, Gains vision for 3 seconds and stuns for 1 seconds if alone.

Level 3 - 75 damage, Gains vision for 4 seconds and stuns for 1 seconds if alone.

Level 4 - 100 damage, Gains vision for 5 seconds and stuns for 1 seconds if alone.

Explanation:

This skill is sort of an aoe detector/stun. When it is first cast, everyone in the AOE will receive 25/50/75/100 damage. Then it checks to see if any of the targets allies are within 450 range of the targets. If there are no units close by, Murkfin will gain vision (like a ping) of the targets and the targets will be stunned for 1 seconds

Note: Summons/Enemies do NOT count towards allied units when calculating whether a hero is "alone". Murkfin counts as -1 ally.

Uses: Spam it like the annoying frog mating call you always hear. Honestly, this skill is too useful in general.
Animation: Coming Soon!

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Fear Toxin

Description: Murkfin has developed hallucinogenic toxin that absolutely terrifies the enemy. However, for each nearby ally the enemy has, the effects are reduced.

Skill Type: Passive

Level 1 - -2 armor, 12% slow, every nearby ally gives back 4% move speed.
Level 2 - -3 armor, 16% slow, every nearby ally gives back 4% move speed.
Level 3 - -4 armor, 20% slow, every nearby ally gives back 4% move speed.
Level 4 - -5 armor, 24% slow, every nearby ally gives back 4% move speed.


Explanation:

Sort of based off of vipers new Nether Toxin. Every time ___ attacks, it will deduct 2/3/4/5 armor and slow movement by 16/20/24/28%. Afterwards, the skill will calculate how many of the target's allies are within 350 range of the target, and give back 4% movement for every ally. Murkfin counts as -1 ally.

Uses: Coming Soon!
Animation: Coming Soon!

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Curse of Solitude

Skill Type: Active, single target (enemy)
Cooldown: 18/16/14/12
Mana cost: 90/100/110/120
Cast Time: Instant

Level 1 - 10% miss, 15 damage per second if the target has an ally within 400 range of the target. For each additional ally within 500 range of the target, there will be a bonus 5 damage per second. Cap of 125 damage (actual, calculated after hero resistance). Lasts 9 seconds.

Level 2 - 15% miss, 20 damage per second if the target has an ally within 400 range of the target. For each additional ally within 500 range of the target, there will be a bonus 6 damage per second. Cap of 250 damage (actual, calculated after hero resistance). Lasts 9 seconds.

Level 3 - 20% miss, 25 damage per second if the target has an ally within 400 range of the target. For each additional ally within 500 range of the target, there will be a bonus 7 damage per second s. Cap of 375 damage (actual, calculated after hero resistance). Lasts 9 seconds.

Level 4 - 25% miss, 30 damage per second if the target has an ally within 400 range of the target. For each additional ally within 500 range of the target, there will be a bonus 8 damage per second. Cap of 500 damage (actual, calculated after hero resistance). Lasts 9 seconds

Explanation:

Basically this skill is a slow/miss debuff + DOT skill. If there are no units by the target, it will experience the full slow/miss debuff. If there are 10 allied units by the target, it will experience ridiculous DOT but there will not be any slow effects on it.

Heres the exact breakdown at level 4:

0 allied units: 0 DOT.
1 allied units: 30 DOT.
2 allied units: 38 DOT.
3 allied units: 43 DOT.
4 allied units: 51 DOT.
5 allied units: 59 DOT.
6 allied units: 67 DOT.
7 allied units: 85 DOT.
8 allied units: 93 DOT.
9 allied units: 101 DOT.
10 allied units: 109 DOT.

This skill is not useless when there are no enemies near the target, but otherwise works as a very good skill to isolate the enemy. It won't deal more than 125/250/375/500 damage for balance issues though. Honestly, I think it'll be more than enough to convince people to separate, who's going to sit through a 500 damage DOT?

Uses: Coming Soon!
Animation: Coming Soon!


Old Skill:

Shadow Walk

Description: Murkfin, after spending years alone in the dark, has learned how to manipulate darkness in order move more quickly.

Skill type: Active, self buff (Shadow Walk), aura (Dimmed Vision)
Duration: 8/10/12/14 seconds
Cooldown: 16 seconds at all levels
AOE of Aura: 550

Level 1 - 20% movespeed increase, gains Dimmed Vision Aura.

Level 2 - 20% movespeed increase, gains Dimmed Vision Aura.

Level 3 - 20% movespeed increase, gains Dimmed Vision Aura.

Level 4 - 20% movespeed increase, gains Dimmed Vision Aura.

"Dimmed Vision" - Aura

• Lose allied vision OR 10% miss rate
• 10% slow
• Lose Creep/Tower priority

Pick one: Miss or loss of allied vision. Loss of allied vision = the player will not be able to see what other heroes or what the scourge/sent sees, but only what the hero or units under the hero's control. Some may be against messing with "sight", so this is why I gave a miss alternative.

Explanation:

I think its less confusing than some of my other skills. Basically, its like a spin off of "wind walk". You gain a MS bonus, and enemies lose allied vision and are slowed slightly when you are near them.

Creep Priority?: Woah, you lose creep priority? That means that creeps won't attack you unless you're the only thing they can see. Normally you can do that easily without a skill: Just order your hero to attack an allied unit - the AI immediately drops priority. Now, you can just do it while moving.

Uses: Escaping or Chasing, or support (imagine: taking away allied vision to disrupt teamwork, allowing your escaping friend to run to safety, provided you are hugging the other heroes.)
Animation: Coming Soon! (I'm thinking invisible animation, only others can see you (like phantom lancer) with some black stuff hanging around you)

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Ultimate: Mutual Isolation/Solitude (you pick)

Description: Murkfin has perfected a technique in order to truly take advantage of an enemies solitude. He has perfected a magic that would separate both Murkfin and the target from the outside world. When cast, Murkfin teleports to the target and both of them are banished into a separate realm to fight alone.

Skill Type: Single target offensive. (Enemy heroes Only)
Duration: 5/6/7 seconds
Cooldown: 40/35/30 seconds
Mana Cost: 100/110/120
Cast Time: Instant

Level 1- 500 cast range, Murkfin will blink to the target. Both the target and Murkfin receive the buff(?) Mutual Banishment for 6 seconds.

Level 2- 700 cast range, Murkfin will blink to the target. Both the target and Murkfin receive the buff(?) Mutual Banishment for 7 seconds.

Level 3- 900 cast range, Murkfin will blink to the target. Both the target and Murkfin receive the buff(?) Mutual Banishment for 8 seconds.

Mutual Banishment:

Units under Mutual Banishment

• Cannot be attacked by outside sources, and vice versa (similar to normal banishment, but they can still attack each other)
• Heroes under Mutual Banishment are immune to most spells (think BKB) from outside sources. (but they can still cast spells on each other)
• Heroes under Mutual Banishment can still cast spells.
• Units under Mutual Banishment will still be visible to others
• If a hero is hit with Mutual Banishment, all units under his control will be banished as well
• Heroes/Units under Mutual Banishment will be treated as if they are completely alone in regard to Murkfin's skills as well as others (Soul Rip).
• Units under Mutual Banishment have no collision.

Explanation:

Haha, this skill is fun. Basically it puts you and the target on a 1v1 situation, and no other heroes can target either you or your target. Fear Toxin and Piercing Scream can now be used to their full potential. Not only offensively, but removing you from their targeting system can truly be used to escape as a last resort as well. Spells can go in and out, but their damage will be reduced and their extra effects (stun, entangle) will not do anything.

Animation: Coming Soon! (I would like a universal sound effect, similar to Pudge/Spectre's Ult. Anyone have ideas? Murlocs usually aren't very... understandable.)
Uses: Coming Soon!

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Synergies

Skill Synergy: Coming Soon!
Hero Synergy: Coming Soon!
Item Synergy: Coming Soon!

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Reminder:
This idea is completely under construction. I'm completely open to new ideas, especially regarding the missing skills. Here is a list of things I'm trying to do and am open for suggestions in:

• Icons
• Animations
• Starting stats/stat gains (I really don't know how to "balance" this
• The third skill
• Simplifying my current skills

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Thanks

• Zirath (Ideas, Icon coloring)
• Bimjowen (Skill Names, ideas)
• Chadpiety (Ideas)
• Anyone else who gave feedback.. but there hasn't been many yet.

[Zirath]

First Blooding this as you type. I'll update my review as you update your hero.

1. Very large AoE on this, but I guess its to scout mostly. So far I like the concept of isolating someone from their teammates. Its still not a decently large nuke (260), so I would not expect heavy ganking with it.

2. Erm, this counts both creeps and heroes right? Its imbalanced if its only heroes. This puts the hero as a ganker/carry already. Potential for large damage. He doesn't have a way of clearing creeps so he needs a partner to benefit fully from the damage bonus.

3. No skill here.

4. This is how you expect people to separate. While its good in theory, I feel this won't really let you abuse your other skills because the heroes can move out of the 300 AoE near the end of the effect to prevent the stun and make it difficult to gain damage. I feel that it can be avoided and provides weak synergy with the other skills. It also orients him for team battle as he doesn't have a strong ganking skill in his set.

I think one skill that would benefit this hero would be something similar to Blink Strike except that when you cast on a target, you and the target are teleported away to another location. Either random or determined by the placement of the hit (like Arrow or Hook).

As he is, he's not quite a ganker and he's not quite a carry.

[babohtea]

Originally Posted by Zirath

First Blooding this as you type. I'll update my review as you update your hero.

1. Very large AoE on this, but I guess its to scout mostly. So far I like the concept of isolating someone from their teammates. Its still not a decently large nuke (260), so I would not expect heavy ganking with it.

2. Erm, this counts both creeps and heroes right? Its imbalanced if its only heroes. This puts the hero as a ganker/carry already. Potential for large damage. He doesn't have a way of clearing creeps so he needs a partner to benefit fully from the damage bonus.

I'll review the rest as the hero is finished.

Yes it includes creeps (for the second skill)
I'm still trying to find ideas for the third skill (maybe a unique windwalk?) as well as simplify the current ones (they're rather complicated).

Regarding this: I'm afraid with the second skill + ultimate, this hero would come to fulfill too many roles at once (carry initiator.. anyone?) I guess the numbers could be tweaked for the ultimate so its not as much of a rigged initiating skill.

I'm also considering weakening his ultimate and making it his third skill and using the "blind effect" as his ultimate? What do you think?

[Zirath]

Originally Posted by babohtea

Yes it includes creeps (for the second skill)
I'm still trying to find ideas for the third skill (maybe a unique windwalk?) as well as simplify the current ones (they're rather complicated).

Regarding this: I'm afraid with the second skill + ultimate, this hero would come to fulfill too many roles at once (carry initiator.. anyone?) I guess the numbers could be tweaked for the ultimate so its not as much of a rigged initiating skill.

I'm also considering weakening his ultimate and making it his third skill and using the "blind effect" as his ultimate? What do you think?

Blind effect as the ultimate seems really weak because it can be played around (main reason we still have no blind effect in the game).

The ultimate isn't a great initiating spell tbh because it can be avoided and the hero has no way of keeping up with enemies really effectively (low duration slow and he doesn't have a speed boost of his own). At this point, I feel that the ultimate is the weakest skill because it relies on you finding enemies grouped together. Its only good to counter gank really, which makes it very winmore in nature.

Avoid WW effects, they are overused and boring.

[babohtea]

Regarding your suggestion for "blink strike". This is extremely hard. I'm sure many other people have suggested it before. Its really hard to create a "random teleportation skill" or a displacement skill without it being imbalanced or just completely broken.

I'm considering doing a combination of hook, hookshot, and swap. Maybe you can target the enemy, and you will both be teleported to the midpoint between the two of you? The problem I'm thinking here though is that its like swap minus the risk, making it therefore imbalanced.

Or, you blink to the enemy and both you go "etheral" and nobody can interact with you or your target, and neither you nor your target can interact with others - only you and your target will be able to. In a sense, it will create a one vs one situation? I'm not sure regarding the balancing of this kind of move either. What do you think?

I'll avoid a WW skill - however: I want to know what you think about disabling "ally sightvision?" In a sense this makes juking much easier as well as limiting a targets ability to run to allies for help. Pings of course will be disabled if this is going to work. I know there's typing saying "Hey I'm in the river" but honestly I think the situation would change so fast typing locations would be useless. There's ventrilo, I guess. Can you really describe where you are in vent? Its mostly meant to impede single target spells or chasing in a fight.

[1nvok3r]

I didn't look at the skills yet, but "the loner" sounds like he's not very teamplay-oriented.

[babohtea]

Originally Posted by 1nvok3r

I didn't look at the skills yet, but "the loner" sounds like he's not very teamplay-oriented.

Its not like that, really. Hes more designed to isolate the other team. I'm going to make a story about how he was separated at a young age, how he learned the torment of being alone and how he now uses it to fight others. Its not like hes designed to solo everything, but more like force the other team to solo.

This is my current idea, Zirath.
I'm going to make his ultimate an "isolation skill" (involving teleports or whatever, I'll figure it out.) I'll remove the blind effect from fear toxin, and make the third skill an aoe blind that gives him a movement speed increase as well as slowing enemies by a small %.

I guess I'll trash the ultimate idea completely for this hero, at least.

[Zirath]

I'm aware the blink strike effect is impossible to balance as random, which is why you would have to base it on the angle you hit your target. You need some "1v1" mechanism for this hero to really benefit from its other skills. He needs to be able to physically isolate targets or his passive will be wasted.

People have been pitching the disabled sight stuff for ages. Icefrog hasn't picked up on it. There might be a reason why. I'm not really sure though.

EDIT (From the post you just made): I'll wait to see your result.

[babohtea]

Alright, I'll work on updating it. I'm really interested as to what Ice Frog has to say about vision reducing skills. I mean, they've already given Balanar a vision-increasing scepter, if that says anything about how powerful vision can be.

Originally Posted by Zirath

I'm aware the blink strike effect is impossible to balance as random, which is why you would have to base it on the angle you hit your target. You need some "1v1" mechanism for this hero to really benefit from its other skills. He needs to be able to physically isolate targets or his passive will be wasted.

People have been pitching the disabled sight stuff for ages. Icefrog hasn't picked up on it. There might be a reason why. I'm not really sure though.

EDIT (From the post you just made): I'll wait to see your result.

I've updated it, take a look!
One thing I'm finding rather paradoxical in this hero idea... He can "carry", but only because he has the capability of dealing large amounts of damage. In an actual team fight.. hes only going to be able to take down one?

[zer11]

i fucking love him i want him in dota ~_~

[Baldoro]

Here's something for You, however I think it doesn't fit to the rest of icons.
Hmmm... or it does ^^.

[Zirath]

Some nice changes you've made there. He has the traditional problem that many lower tiered heroes have: the inability to take out more than one person (Spiritbreaker, Troll, Pudge, Void tend to have this problem too). He is pretty ganking oriented right now and can really fuck up one guy.

3. This is a nice touch to the hero's theme. Practically, I'm not sure much it can be used but it does help to isolate enemies better.

4. hrm, 5 x (80 + ~70) + 260 = 1000 (approximately) damage nuke at level 9. I guess that makes him a pretty scary ganker even when people have allies. The numbers may be overpowered, but the concept is there.

I think this hero came together pretty well. I think the basic mechanics are there and now the cosmetics needs work. I'll let other people argue about balance and the like for now.

I personally hate the icons for the first two skills because they don't fit the hero well. The first one doesn't exactly have the Warcraft look but specifically the colors are off. I tried to do a little recolor work to fix it but I don't have Photoshop right now so its limited (used Paint.NET):


Here's a re-color for Fear Toxin because you don't want to reuse icons if you can:


Also I found an image on hiveworkshop that might help for the skills:



Either will preserve the purple theme which fits the model pretty well.

For a name, I'll try to pitch a few (partial theft from wc3 engine):
Murkshadow, Darkscale, Scarscale

I'll try to think up some better ones a little later.

I hope this helps.

[king_james]

How about Mur'Loch, the Shadow Walker?

Overall, its a nice hero, no concerns. Mutual Banishment is somewhat one of the better skills I've seen in PD. Excellent.

[Baldoro]

Originally Posted by Zirath

Some nice changes you've made there. He has the traditional problem that many lower tiered heroes have: the inability to take out more than one person (Spiritbreaker, Troll, Pudge, Void tend to have this problem too). He is pretty ganking oriented right now and can really fuck up one guy.

3. This is a nice touch to the hero's theme. Practically, I'm not sure much it can be used but it does help to isolate enemies better.

4. hrm, 5 x (80 + ~70) + 260 = 1000 (approximately) damage nuke at level 9. I guess that makes him a pretty scary ganker even when people have allies. The numbers may be overpowered, but the concept is there.

I think this hero came together pretty well. I think the basic mechanics are there and now the cosmetics needs work. I'll let other people argue about balance and the like for now.

I personally hate the icons for the first two skills because they don't fit the hero well. The first one doesn't exactly have the Warcraft look but specifically the colors are off. I tried to do a little recolor work to fix it but I don't have Photoshop right now so its limited (used Paint.NET):


Here's a re-color for Fear Toxin because you don't want to reuse icons if you can:


Also I found an image on hiveworkshop that might help for the skills:



Either will preserve the purple theme which fits the model pretty well.

For a name, I'll try to pitch a few (partial theft from wc3 engine):
Murkshadow, Darkscale, Scarscale

I'll try to think up some better ones a little later.

I hope this helps.

Nice icons, remake of my fix =).
Good that You did them, they fit much more.

[babohtea]

Updated Icons, I'll probably pick a name later. Does anyone know how to make the "hidden" messages? Like the things with "show spoiler" or "show"?

[Mfunn]

^ [.spoiler] whitout the "." [./spoiler] name it murky :>

[dixing]

funny thing is I have a hero I was going to post that builds a little around the same theme, just with more touch on the range of sight of enemies, but with the intention of isolating them indeed. so the idea is nice!
second spell is the overpowered spectre skill... at least thats what it sounds like, the penalty here doesnt change the idea itself :O
1st spell, kinda nice, not too hard to code and usefull! very usefull!
3rd spell... ok I guess, suits its purpose!
ultimate is a nice idea, havent thought of that when building my hero, went a different way a bit :O
good job, looks nice.

[babohtea]

Updated name to Murkfin, more info in the changelog.

I may change the "Piercing Scream" Icon if anyone still thinks that it doesn't fit WC3 after the color change (Thanks Zirath, you're awesome, I was trying to find out how to do that)

[Light-Coke]

In my eyes, this hero serves somewhat similar role as Spectre. I'm not saying he is a carry that requires farming and such, but he is specialized to kill isolated heroes.

Skill 1 & 2 obviously aims killing heroes with no allies.
Spell 2 has somewhat similar idea as Spectre's Desolate, anyhow, it's acceptable, there isn't endless pool of simple&effective abilities, so similarities will happen.
Although, as with Spectre, she has her ultimate, this hero has no real way to approach isolated units, and that's when he works best. The ultimate is blink combinated with complex ability, and that's basically only way.

Otherwise you just have to guess where could be lonely heroes, and find them.
That MS boost ability might help with that, but otherwise it lacks synergy with your other abilities, and is rather irrelevant, and not very original.

I dislike how the spells works with mechanical functions of the game. I don't understand what's the role of pinging an enemy, and I don't think abilities should mess with features like that. Also that losing friendly sight is bad idea, and goes under the same cathegory as pinging.



This hero is obviously under construction. And you should work on the lay-out, so reading the skills would be easier (the yellow text wall isn't good. Add 'enters' between levels, so you can seperate them).

Overall, it needs fixes and adjustments, but I think it'll evolve to something

[Zirath]

I'm still skeptical about Shadow Walk because it doesn't feel practical. I would almost rather have something that just straight pushes enemies (like Force Staff) as the skill to isolate people. There's still something very boring about Shadow Walk that doesn't fit this hero, which is right now a strong ganker.

You should consider changing your format at this point. It should look like this:

http://www.playdota.com/forums/5494/...tion-template/

That should make it easier to read.