[Skill remake] Soul Steal

[kanzakill]

Well, right now there's a blind competition
I think this can help the small bird (bat?) TB find the way home
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Change log:

July 28
+ Created and then changed
+ Added reasons
10 March
+ Added TC;DR version

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Current skill:


Proposal:

TC;DR version

After attacking a unit, TB will lower that unit's max hp without further damaging that unit (which means that unit won't lose hp when its max hp gets lowered).
TB will also regains a few hp.

Soul Steal
* Ability Type: Passive
* Targeting Type: Unit
* Ability Hotkey: L

Effects:
+ After TB attacks an enemy unit, reduce that unit's max hp based on the hp it lost (because of TB's normal attack). Then give the hp it lost in the reducing process back to the target. (Which means the target doesn't lose any hp because of the process )
+ TB regains a portion of the amount of hp the target lost in the reducing process.
+ Target gets its max hp back 10 seconds after TB last hits on it.
(complicated?)

Numbers:

Reduce target's max hp by 45/60/75/100% the hp it lost (because of BT's normal attack)
Regains 20% of hp the target loses in the reducing process

Simple description:

-You use TB with Soul Steal leveled to attack a target.
-The target loses hp as normal because of TB's attack.
-Then the skill reduces target's max hp. Normally, current hp will also be reduced when you reduce max hp. This skill reduces ONLY max hp. The current hp stay as it is after target got attacked by TB.
-Then TB regains a few hp..

Ta da!

Example how it works:

Let's say we have TB with 100 attack power
Soul Steal at level 1
An enemy with 0 armor and 1000/1000 hp
------------------------------
TB attacks that target, deals 100 damage
The target's hp is now 900/1000
Now the skill takes place, reduces target's max hp by 45 (45 % of the hp that target lost (100))
Now the target's hp is 860/955
TB regains 8 hp (20% of (900 - 860))
Target regains the hp it lost in the process, now its hp is 900/955
And TB attacks again ...
The target's hp is now 800/955
Now the skill takes place
Now the target's hp is 762/910
TB regains 7.6 hp (20% of (800 - 762))
Target regains the hp it lost in the process, now its hp is 800/910
...
Let's say the target is able to escape with 800/910 hp
After 10 seconds since TB last hit, the target gets it max hp back. Now it has 800/1000 hp

Let's say we have TB with 100 attack power
Soul Steal at level 4
An enemy with 0 armor and 1000/1000 hp
------------------------------
TB attacks that target, deals 100 damage
The target's hp is now 900/1000
Now the skill takes place, reduces target's max hp by 100 (100 % of the hp that target lost (100))
Now the target's hp is 810/900
TB regains 18 hp (20% of (900 - 810))
Target regains the hp it lost in the process, now its hp is 900/900
And TB attacks again ...
The target's hp is now 800/900
Now the skill takes place
Now the target's hp is 711/800
TB regains 17.8 hp (20% of (800 - 711))
Target regains the hp it lost in the process, now its hp is 800/800
...
Let's say the target is able to escape with 800/800 hp
After 10 seconds since TB last hit, the target gets it max hp back. Now it has 800/1000 hp

Notes:
+ Give the skill to images if possible.
+ Don't make it an orb skill if possible.

Reasons:
+ Current skill is boring and doesn't have (good) synergy with other skills
+ Current skill is not (very) versatile
+ The PROS
+ Well, all (boring) ladder spells should be removed (IMO of course )

PROS
+ Fits life manipulating theme
+ Heavy synergy with all other skills (especially ultimate, keeping the target's hp percentage high while still damaging the target)
+ Jungling
+ Survival

CONS
+ Imba?
+ Complicated?
+ Codeable?

By the way, if this idea can't make it as a passive, it can be changed into an active skill

[Cp6uja]

Effects:
+ After TB attacks an enemy unit, reduce that unit's max hp based on TB's attack power.
+ TB regains a portion of the amount of hp the target loses in the reducing process.
+ Target gets its max hp back when its hp percentage reaches 100%
(complicated?)

Yes. Also it sucks. Why are you guys choosing this ability, leave it already.

[kanzakill]

Originally Posted by Cp6uja_

Yes. Also it sucks.

Man, please don't comment since I've been changing it

Why are you guys choosing this ability, leave it already.

Try telling that to all dumb gums in this forum

OK, ready for comments (mostly criticisms?)

[kanzakill]

Originally Posted by kanzakill

Man, please don't comment since I've been changing it


Try telling that to all dumb gums in this forum

OK, ready for comments (mostly criticisms?)

So, anyone please comment

[dark.88]

It is very complicated because you posted the effects as the way it's coded instead of what the skill will appear to people when they play it. I could be wrong.

It would have to be an orb effect because if it wasn't then the player could spam "S"(stop) and get healed really fast, and also kill units almost instantly. If it was an orb effect it would have problems stacking with other orbs. TB is a good hero to get orbs on, so I wouldn't want him to be crippled because of this.

The skill is still confusing to me, but i tried to the best to understand it.

[kanzakill]

Oh yes, I posted the way to code it yet I didn't notice. Thank you, I'll try to fix that.

Originally Posted by dark.88

It would have to be an orb effect because if it wasn't then the player could spam "S"(stop) and get healed really fast, and also kill units almost instantly. If it was an orb effect it would have problems stacking with other orbs. TB is a good hero to get orbs on, so I wouldn't want him to be crippled because of this.

Let me check the War3 editor first, I believe there is a condition "when X unit deals Y damage to Z unit".

P/S: and the post above yours was reported so don't mind about it.

[Blub-]

If I've understood this correctly what this skill basically does is:

1) It gives TB a lifesteal (starts with nearly 20% and decreases the less hp his target has)

2) TB's damage simply decreases his target's max hp which means the target will stay at "full" hp until its max hp are so low that it dies with one hit

Some effects of 2) are:

- %-based dmg will be reduced (bad)
- %-based heal will be reduced (good)
- any heal will basically be less effective (good)
- you can sunder the low hp (but full hp) target and still regain max hp while leaving the target at even less hp (like 1 hit away from death if the target's max hp were really low) (good)
-> These effects will mostly take place when TB is the only one damaging the target otherwise it will be mainly a lifesteal

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by Cp6uja_

Why are you guys choosing this ability, leave it already.

What do you mean?

[Henry]

I agree with changing SOUL STEAL, but your remake is kinda complicated KANZA...

[babohtea]

Wayy too confusing, and the fluctuating health is confusing.

[mjs]

It's a good concept. Since Sunder works with hp percentage, this would synergize well with TB's ultimate. Thumbs up!

[EternityPala]

T-Up for concept. But numbers may need changing.
From what i think this skill does, it makes TB an imba jungler.

[kanzakill]

After 2 hours messing with War3 Editor, I have failed

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Thanks for all comments you guys, I'm adding a more simple description to OP.

Added an example of skill at level 1 so it's easier to compare.

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Originally Posted by Blub-

If I've understood this correctly what this skill basically does is:

1) It gives TB a lifesteal (starts with nearly 20% and decreases the less hp his target has)

2) TB's damage simply decreases his target's max hp which means the target will stay at "full" hp until its max hp are so low that it dies with one hit

Some effects of 2) are:

- %-based dmg will be reduced (bad)
- %-based heal will be reduced (good)
- any heal will basically be less effective (good)
- you can sunder the low hp (but full hp) target and still regain max hp while leaving the target at even less hp (like 1 hit away from death if the target's max hp were really low) (good)
-> These effects will mostly take place when TB is the only one damaging the target otherwise it will be mainly a lifesteal

Correct me if I'm wrong.

All is right except the red part

The decreasing of target's max hp is caused by the skill, not TB's attacks. TB's attacks will still deals damage as normal.

You see, when you reduce max hp, the current hp will also be reduced. I just want to state that the skill only reduces max hp, no more.

I added another example so you can compare.

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Originally Posted by EternityPala

T-Up for concept. But numbers may need changing.
From what i think this skill does, it makes TB an imba jungler.

Err, I don't know
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@Henry, babohtea, mjs:
I didn't ignore you guys, it's just I can't find a good way to reply without doing "thank you" spam
--------------------------------------------------------------
@dark.88:
I'm still wrestling with War3 Editor

[Blub-]

Originally Posted by kanzakill

All is right except the red part

The decreasing of target's max hp is caused by the skill, not TB's attacks. TB's attacks will still deals damage as normal.

You see, when you reduce max hp, the current hp will also be reduced. I just want to state that the skill only reduces max hp, no more.

I added another example so you can compare.

I know that the current hp won't be higher than the max hp, guess I should've said that though.

[kanzakill]

Originally Posted by Blub-

I know that the current hp won't be higher than the max hp, guess I should've said that though.

I changed the skill so now it reduces max hp based on the damage TB dealt, not on his attack power.
That way, the current hp will never be higher than max hp

[TheRealTechN9NE]

Aint the mathcraft wrong? I mean, I suck at maths but I think it is. Changes in red:

Originally Posted by kanzakill

Example how it works:
[spoiler]Let's say we have TB with 100 attack power
Soul Steal at level 1
An enemy with 0 armor and 1000/1000 hp
------------------------------
TB attacks that target, deals 100 damage
The target's hp is now 900/1000
Now the skill takes place, reduces target's max hp by 45 (45 % of the hp that target lost (100))
Now the target's hp is 855/955
TB regains 9 hp (20% of (900 - 855))
Target regains the hp it lost in the process, now its hp is 900/955
And TB attacks again ...
The target's hp is now 800/955
Now the skill takes place
Now the target's hp is 755/910
TB regains 9 hp (20% of (800 - 755))
Target regains the hp it lost in the process, now its hp is 800/910

Since the target loses 100 hp with each strike, Tb also always steals 45 Hp and gains 9 Hp.

Also, having it maxed, it would destroy synergy with Necro on the one hand, but on the other hand, it would help all other team members, because heals are nullified (with SS maxed, you basically only reduce max life, you dont deal any "real" damage; means the enemy's Hp pool will shrink like that 500/500->400/400->300/300->200/200->100/100->0/0).
And how will this work against effects like Dispersion/armor? It would have to be reduced as well, because a hero cant have like 420/400 Hp (Example of Spectre with maxed Dispersion against a TB with 100 Attackpower)

[kanzakill]

I've taken of that case already:

Originally Posted by kanzakill

I changed the skill so now it reduces max hp based on the damage TB dealt, not on his attack power.
That way, the current hp will never be higher than max hp

And I checked it again, my matchcraft wasn't wrong. You got a little confusion there.
When you reduce/increase the max hp, the value of (current hp:max hp) stays the same.

[TheRealTechN9NE]

But if the heal is based on the damage you deal, it should stay the same for every attack as long as your damage stays the same. Or not?

Imagine SS lvl 4 (100% of your attack damage taken from max health).

You deal 100 damage->the skill reduces max Hp by 100->you get healed for 20Hp. And this stays the same for every attack.

[kanzakill]

Originally Posted by TheRealTechN9NE

But if the heal is based on the damage you deal, it should stay the same for every attack as long as your damage stays the same. Or not?

Imagine SS lvl 4 (100% of your attack damage taken from max health).

You deal 100 damage->the skill reduces max Hp by 100->you get healed for 20Hp. And this stays the same for every attack.

No, it'll change and it's not based on the damage you dealt. It's 20%x((target's hp after TB attacks it but hasn't reduced its max hp) - (target's hp after TB reduces its max hp))
But that change is pretty pathetic.
100 damage dealt, lv1 SS: 8hp first hit, 7.6 hp second hit
100 damage dealt, lv4 SS: 18hp first hit, 17.8 hp second hit

Anyway, I can use a less complicated formula in case you feel it's too complicated

[TheRealTechN9NE]

Ah ok, I misinterpreted it then.

[kanzakill]

Originally Posted by TheRealTechN9NE

Ah ok, I misinterpreted it then.

No don't mind. Actually that was my low skill to fully express things

I just want to ask, should I change the heal so that it heal you more when the target's more injured? I checked some other SS remake suggestion, especially dark.88, and I think it quite makes sense that way?