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Old 05-11-2013, 12:31 PM   #1
jet112
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Question Spirit Breaker Combo's


Hello Everyone, im new to the forum but not new to DoTA.

id like to address a topic that have been addressed many times on this site.
Spirit Breaker Balance.
as some of you know spirit breaker is at 4# ranked with 1.7m games played in total. the hero itself indeed uses broken teamwork against the team but some thing's about this hero are just absurd.
1. Empowering Haste gives 18% movement speed at level 4, did anyone said yasha?, this guy escape faster than he kills and can bash you if you try to stop him.
2.Charge of Darkness - 2.1 sec stun on lvl 4 ability and 700 movement speed in total which exceed the top movespeed in the game, goes through anything, can escape highground before anyone get the pleasure of handling him. also scales with greater bash which ill discuss later.
3.Greater Bash - 17% to knockback on attack is not a big deal, but what happens when you pair it with mask of madness? the chance is doubled. so what happens in reality is that you miss 40% of your attack's to bara greater bash and he kills you even if your a hard carry, which to remind you that bara is mostly an initiator and in no way a carry.
Nether Strike- probably what makes the argument here, stun him? go ahead, chain stun him for 5 seconds or what you can do, suddenly he appears and smashes you again, this time with mask of madness turned on, who has higher movespeed at this point? spirit breaker. teleport scroll? no problem just bash or nether strike. ghost scepre? nether strike force staff? nether strike.
spend money on warding the river while he comes at 700ms and dives your towers, good luck. bring team over? he bashes them all. didn't work for him? he just charge at a creep 20k miles away.

valve really gotta do something about this guy,its just a matter of time until every all pick games will have bara with mask of madness and you must speak your mind before it becomes an exploit.
with all the thing's i mentioned above you need to premahex him at lvl 16 or you can never kill him (theoretically.)
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

oh lol...
may i ask you? huskar is op 2?
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:36 PM   #3
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

He is quite easy to shut down if you have at least 2 heroes with disable, also MoM is trash on him every since empowering haste does not give him damage anymore.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:36 PM   #4
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

He is actually OK.

If the game turns into a very early 5v5 deathball meta, SB is basically useless, because charging into a deathball without enough tanking items is just suicide. And unlike Nynx, he has no AOE spell and no skill like Spiked Carapace for escape.

He shines the most when it's a fairly late deathball meta, which is common in pubs. Between 10-25min, if the enemy team spreads out, pushing, farming, then he's extremely powerful and snowballs quite quickly. Once you have MoM and Armlet on board, most heroes are just food.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:36 PM   #5
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

most of bara's are getting MoM right after boots, so just stun him if he activates it. In early stages greater bash is not procing too many times.

Also learn how stun him while he charges
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:37 PM   #6
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

It seems you have much to learn about the game. A hero that's near shit-tier everywhere other than low level pubs is by no way OP. You'll learn how to beat him soon enough.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

While I do think Bara is much less shit than most people make him to be, he is not overpowered. Also Empowering haste is a shit skill in reality. Netherstike being a dick to forcestaff users? Well gotta agree with that one.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakkis157 View Post
A hero that's near shit-tier everywhere other than low level pubs is by no way OP.
You are absolutely right. Because

1. In high-level games the deathball meta starts very early
2. High-level players have much better time disabling him while he's charging

This guy contributes very little in a 5v5 clash, somewhat like Bloodseeker. He can't even quickly sniper-shot one enemy; Chaos Knight and Lycan are much better at that.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

mask of madness bara if I'm not mistaken is one of the old moves out there. It is nothing new.

emp haste is already nerfed if i'm not mistaken. It no longer provides bonus damage just pure ms.

he is just on the level of pubstomper if I'll gonna rate him.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

so what your saying that sb weakness is enemy traps? build shadowblade.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:43 PM   #11
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

You must be bronze.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:45 PM   #12
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

Quote:
Originally Posted by jet112 View Post
so what your saying that sb weakness is enemy traps? build shadowblade.
buy sentry and dust

SB is only good against uncoordinated teams
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:46 PM   #13
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

Bara is OP 1v1, he is pretty mediocre in a teamfight, unless he snowballs and gets ahead by killing people 1v1 due to noobs playing.
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowProgr View Post
buy sentry and dust

SB is only good against uncoordinated teams
so dust him, dust will expire because he drive at 502ms, forcing your team to play the game of fear is not a great idea, thats exactly why he needs balance, part of the game is to counter push tower's with 1 or maybe 2 people, so your giving it away to spirit breaker?
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:54 PM   #15
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

He is a snowball hero, so don't let him do it.
Also don't ever go alone if your enemy hase Spirit Breaker, and don't face 2v2 if your enemy has SB etc.
And unlike popular belief, he's a solid hero to wreak pub (Not pub in noob, pub in public match making).
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Old 05-11-2013, 12:54 PM   #16
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

Quote:
Originally Posted by jet112 View Post
so dust him, dust will expire because he drive at 502ms, forcing your team to play the game of fear is not a great idea, thats exactly why he needs balance, part of the game is to counter push tower's with 1 or maybe 2 people, so your giving it away to spirit breaker?
um, disables? seriously, if he gets ShadowBlade he won't be tanky enough to survive 2 stuns (with activated MoM)
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

Charge is easy to counter......just bring ward place in jungle,when something fast approaching you, prepare your stun/disabler bam! fail...

well SB is not bad who doesn't want a teammates who can join any gank in anytime?
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:01 PM   #18
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

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Originally Posted by ShadowProgr View Post
um, disables? seriously, if he gets ShadowBlade he won't be tanky enough to survive 2 stuns (with activated MoM)

dosen't matter dude, lets say riki has the advantege of being undercover at all times, and his job is to sweep kills all across the map, he needs to roam around all the time to do so, same thing with every roaming hero in the game, to find the right time and place to be to make a good use of your skillset, bara skips that entire process with one ability and one good ward, put some thought in him and your almighty.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:06 PM   #19
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

Quote:
Originally Posted by jet112 View Post
dosen't matter dude, lets say riki has the advantege of being undercover at all times, and his job is to sweep kills all across the map, he needs to roam around all the time to do so, same thing with every roaming hero in the game, to find the right time and place to be to make a good use of your skillset, bara skips that entire process with one ability and one good ward, put some thought in him and your almighty.
you can easily counter-gank him with your good ward, if you see him coming, prepare stuns and stun him before he hits you with charge. He cannot survive if being focused.

Also sometimes having allies TPing to help you is useful against bara.

But as I said before SB is pretty good against teams w/o teamwork. Just don't wander alone.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:07 PM   #20
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

His innate bulk and magic immunity from ulti allow him to stack several bracer and simply charge through deathball aiming for that drow/sniper/skywrath/tinker/etc standing behind their team, ulti, see the team clump to buttrape him only to find he tank way too much damage while his team clean up the mess. He is like a bulkier, unignorable beastmaster as he essentially stun someone for 3+ second,except that he got way better rightclick and present himself directly in front of the stunned victim.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:11 PM   #21
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowProgr View Post
you can easily counter-gank him with your good ward, if you see him coming, prepare stuns and stun him before he hits you with charge. He cannot survive if being focused.

Also sometimes having allies TPing to help you is useful against bara.

But as I said before SB is pretty good against teams w/o teamwork. Just don't wander alone.
i would accept your argument if bara had a lower hp, or was agi hero for instance. if you read what i wrote before you will find that bara can escape better than your entire team combined.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:16 PM   #22
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

SB is a hero you pick against enemies with no coordination(Random pubs), his usefulness drops as the teamfigths and teamroams start, by the way MoM is trash rush a urn, bkb and armlet that will solve most of the problem this hero has. I personaly pick sb against PL, and other ricer heroes, sometimes a orchid works against specific lineups.

SB is fucked if the entire enemy team roams and takes towers together at levels 4-6 tough. And good warding and tps stop his usefulness and turn him into freee reliable gold that comes rigth into your face to get killed, He is a bursty single target disable ganker, he aint a "bulky" hero, and most pubs make this worse by buying a MoM, so just move in packs ward and enjoy the free levels he will give you whenever he tries to gank.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:22 PM   #23
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

>not new to dota
>SB is overpowered

pick one
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:34 PM   #24
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

Common mistake of SB player:
1. Mask of suicide
2. Gank forever and ever
The moment enemy show a sign of tp countergank/mass push/deathball, abandon ganking and join your own deathball. He got capability to 3s single target stun that is hard to counter if you use your brain, while forcing enemy team into bad position and possibly waste some projectile based disable. Don't theorycraft as if SB got no team to back him up.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:40 PM   #25
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

Quote:
Originally Posted by A5G_Reaper View Post
Common mistake of SB player:
1. Mask of suicide
2. Gank forever and ever
The moment enemy show a sign of tp countergank/mass push/deathball, abandon ganking and join your own deathball. He got capability to 3s single target stun that is hard to counter if you use your brain, while forcing enemy team into bad position and possibly waste some projectile based disable. Don't theorycraft as if SB got no team to back him up.
im not saying he is the complete hero, im just saying he is a little imbalanced, and about a subject of teamfight's, he does have a teamfight impact just check the charge of darkness description.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:41 PM   #26
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

I agree with you, SB is severely underpowered and brings nothing to a team. He is requires a huge buff or a partial remake, the latter makes more sense.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:44 PM   #27
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

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Originally Posted by Pro. View Post
I agree with you, SB is severely underpowered and brings nothing to a team. He is requires a huge buff or a partial remake, the latter makes more sense.
now that's a troll if anything, he is somewhat of a pudge tier character but with more mobility and impact, 4th highest winrate says your wrong.
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:44 PM   #28
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

Quote:
Originally Posted by A5G_Reaper View Post
Common mistake of SB player:
1. Mask of suicide
2. Gank forever and ever
The moment enemy show a sign of tp countergank/mass push/deathball, abandon ganking and join your own deathball. He got capability to 3s single target stun that is hard to counter if you use your brain, while forcing enemy team into bad position and possibly waste some projectile based disable. Don't theorycraft as if SB got no team to back him up.
Or, you know, pick rubick with his 2 sec stun, reliable displacement and whichever ability of the other team's arsenal you want, while requiring zero farm
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Old 05-11-2013, 01:50 PM   #29
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koutsiog~ View Post
Or, you know, pick rubick with his 2 sec stun, reliable displacement and whichever ability of the other team's arsenal you want, while requiring zero farm
rubick doesn't have the luxury of choosing the enemy hero staying behind their team as stun target, or half the bulk of SB, or global presence on demand, where is the similarity to compare them?


@OP
Bash while charging use your normal ms value, so ts quite minuscule to count as a nuke. The stun is nice tho.
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Old 05-11-2013, 02:00 PM   #30
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

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Originally Posted by A5G_Reaper View Post
rubick doesn't have the luxury of choosing the enemy hero staying behind their team as stun target, or half the bulk of SB, or global presence on demand, where is the similarity to compare them?


@OP
Bash while charging use your normal ms value, so ts quite minuscule to count as a nuke. The stun is nice tho.
but he does have the luxury of not relying on a 17% chance bash, moving the enemy a meaningful distance, stunning his team for 1.75 if they're close enough to the landing point, having a selection of 20 - passives spells, not stealing farm and actually being a useful hero all game long
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Old 05-11-2013, 02:07 PM   #31
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

I play SB quite often in pubs when I see the other team picking drow or sniper (squishy food etc). He can be easily countered by wards and stuns like for instance earthshakers fissure. I will say however he is not quite as useless as people think he is. when a team fight is about to happen I tend to charge the farthest person on the enemy team. that way my charge will stun them as I go through them giving my team a chance to start smacking the enemy team while I back out the back for a sec then start beating on the weak ones.

If you pair it with a sceptar he has an aoe stun when he uses his ulti causing more stuns and knockback plus having only a 20 second cooldown. Think running through all them= stuns as I go through+ ulti the middle = more stuns and knockback. Pair Spirit Breaker with Lifestealer and the enemy team better never go alone. If you get shadowblade on him its quite funny to pop shadowblade right before the initial charge stun the enemy team is like wtf hacker lol?

Enemy team got a drow/sniper/gyro with shadow blade roaming? Not much of a problem with spirit breaker just buy dust/ward/gem and go to town. He isn't op though that's for sure, really good teamwork with alot of stuns/disables will pretty much slaughter him if he is focused. Funny thing is I consider when I am playing sb that I tend to be a healer using my urns left right and center on my own teammates lol. When playing sb my greatest enemy is 1. Bane and 2. Myself (why myself because when playing sb people tend to get cocky lol)

Funniest wtf moment I ever had was when rubick stole my ulti once. We faced off and when I went to ulti he did to at the same time causing us to wind up on the opposite ends of each other doing absolutly no damage.

Edit: I will say however his usefulness does tend to drop fairly fast in late game.
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Last edited by Roboraptor; 05-11-2013 at 02:30 PM.
Old 05-11-2013, 02:20 PM   #32
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koutsiog~ View Post
but he does have the luxury of not relying on a 17% chance bash, moving the enemy a meaningful distance, stunning his team for 1.75 if they're close enough to the landing point, having a selection of 20 - passives spells, not stealing farm and actually being a useful hero all game long
The bash on attack is just icing on the cake, its main use are during ulti and charge.

The comparison itself is flawed. They have no similarity at all, that one is better than the other depending on situation. sb got a wicked anticarry and ganking potential, rubick got his cc. Let's conclude the discussion now shall we? They fill too different role to be compared.
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Old 05-11-2013, 02:28 PM   #33
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

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Originally Posted by A5G_Reaper View Post
The bash on attack is just icing on the cake, its main use are during ulti and charge.

The comparison itself is flawed. They have no similarity at all, that one is better than the other depending on situation. sb got a wicked anticarry and ganking potential, rubick got his cc. Let's conclude the discussion now shall we? They fill too different role to be compared.
In what role is SB better than rubick?
rubick has a better teamfight potential, ganking potential (unless you're against the kind of noobs that never ward and when they see a SB charging them they sit there and farm) and pushing potential
the only thing SB does better than rubick is carry, and if SB is your carry you've already lost the game, unless you're playing against the aforementioned kind of players
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Old 05-11-2013, 02:28 PM   #34
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

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now that's a troll if anything, he is somewhat of a pudge tier character but with more mobility and impact, 4th highest winrate says your wrong.
"You are" or "you're" would be the words you're looking for; your is the second person possessive adjective, used to describe something as belonging to you.

Now that we've got that out of the way, public games win rates mean as much as your mother's opinion on Dota's balance.
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Old 05-11-2013, 02:43 PM   #35
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roboraptor View Post
I play SB quite often in pubs when I see the other team picking drow or sniper (squishy food etc). He can be easily countered by wards and stuns like for instance earthshakers fissure. I will say however he is not quite as useless as people think he is. when a team fight is about to happen I tend to charge the farthest person on the enemy team. that way my charge will stun them as I go through them giving my team a chance to start smacking the enemy team while I back out the back for a sec then start beating on the weak ones.

If you pair it with a sceptar he has an aoe stun when he uses his ulti causing more stuns and knockback plus having only a 20 second cooldown. Think running through all them= stuns as I go through+ ulti the middle = more stuns and knockback. Pair Spirit Breaker with Lifestealer and the enemy team better never go alone. If you get shadowblade on him its quite funny to pop shadowblade right before the initial charge stun the enemy team is like wtf hacker lol?

Enemy team got a drow/sniper/gyro with shadow blade roaming? Not much of a problem with spirit breaker just buy dust/ward/gem and go to town. He isn't op though that's for sure, really good teamwork with alot of stuns/disables will pretty much slaughter him if he is focused. Funny thing is I consider when I am playing sb that I tend to be a healer using my urns left right and center on my own teammates lol. When playing sb my greatest enemy is 1. Bane and 2. Myself (why myself because when playing sb people tend to get cocky lol)

Funniest wtf moment I ever had was when rubick stole my ulti once. We faced off and when I went to ulti he did to at the same time causing us to wind up on the opposite ends of each other doing absolutly no damage.

Edit: I will say however his usefulness does tend to drop fairly fast in late game.
Well SB never have potential in late game he only shine in Early/mid after that? Only provide Vision,Chaser(CoD),Aura speed.
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Old 05-11-2013, 03:03 PM   #36
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

Quote:
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In what role is SB better than rubick?
Anti BKB.
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Old 05-11-2013, 04:07 PM   #37
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

Everyone here seems to tread SB as if he were a totally useless hero that cannot do anything except suicide. But even on higher levels (not THE highest, just higher) he can still do very well if he's played smart. His damage output is pretty nice, and while charge and empowering haste are at best mediocre abilities, I think his bash and ulti have potential. He is actually much harder to play than most people think, too.
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Old 05-11-2013, 04:18 PM   #38
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Exclamation Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro. View Post
"You are" or "you're" would be the words you're looking for; your is the second person possessive adjective, used to describe something as belonging to you.

Now that we've got that out of the way, public games win rates mean as much as your mother's opinion on Dota's balance.

please try not to be grammer nazi while trying to argue, its just makes you obvious as a person, now that we got that out of the way..

55% winrate right? imagine all the players and all the situations that bara has been involved in, and all the possible thing's that can happen during a dota fight, in high skill or low skill bracket mash all those together and add the fact that spirit breaker is still 5% more effective in almost every public games than any other hero, to be honest Dendi and ChuaN are still playing public matches so they are also part of that 55% spirit breaker has.
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Old 05-11-2013, 04:23 PM   #39
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

We run sb + Naix all the time versus carries with no escapes in pubs of course Works wonders

Sb Naix furion tiny wisp now meta
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Old 05-11-2013, 04:35 PM   #40
theonly_USA_pro
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Default Re: Spirit Breaker Combo's

Spirit: Broken

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