[TWEAK] Phantasm

[kanzakill]

As you might know already, Phantasm is an ultimate skill. But still it makes normal images So I think this suggestion can make it more unique.

Note:
This suggestion doesn't increase Phantasm's attacking power nor images' defense at all

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Right now, people can tell which is the real Nessaj by hitting it, thus making it just a normal image skill.

Proposal:
Make enemies not know which is the real Nessaj

The way to do it:
+ Instead of letting images take 200% normal damage, let them take just 100% normal damage (this way enemies won't know which is the real Nessaj).
+ When an image loses equal or more than 50% of its hp, kills that image instanly.

Thanks to kitchen I found a way to balance this skill
+ Reduce the cooldown to 140/120/100
+ Reduce manacost to 150/175/200
+ When an image dies, the damage it dealt is given back to the ones it attacked. Ex: an image crits Riki for 600 damage, feels so much pain . But then purges that image with his diffusal blade. 600 hp is given back to Riki, and he feels liek pro
It's just a phantasm

Thoughs? Anyway that change made this suggestion a remake suggestion

[Siraraz]

So when I want to try kill an enemy while I'm under 50% HP, with my Images... they will die if the enemy cast an AoE spell :O......

I don't like the die on 50%, the 100% normal damage is a bit scary as well. I don't think theres a problem with Phantasm except its cooldown.

[Cp6uja]

Way too much op. I don't care if he needs to drop to 50%, I need to know NOW which is real, I can't destroy 3 images with 2000Hp down to 1000Hp, thats insane.

T-Down. Only reduced CD is needed, nothing else.

[doomsheep]

i like.

@cp6etc: the real ck cant hide anyway, he wants to cast blink/stun.

[Cp6uja]

Originally Posted by doomsheep

i like.

@cp6etc: the real ck cant hide anyway, he wants to cast blink/stun.

I do that first, and then use ulti . . .

[doomsheep]

I do that first, and then use ulti . . .

u noob u lose valuable stun time!

his spells are spammable btw <.<

[Zack1996]

Originally Posted by doomsheep

u noob u lose valuable stun time!

his spells are spammable btw <.<

Tell Icefrog to make the delay between cast and Image appearing to near 0. Make the Images start auto-attacking a hero stunned by Chaos Bolt, and reduce the cooldown. There. Phantasm is good xD

T-Down to your suggestion. Its rather OP. And illusions don't grant gold (do they?)

[Light-Coke]

Out of curiosity, why was the post above edited?

[fffxc2]

Originally Posted by Cp6uja_

I need to know NOW which is real

I think thats the point, it makes you unable to know which is the real one (kinda chaos'y imo).

Probably the best way to do this is that when the images are created store the about of hp they have and when they take 50% of that amount remove them. That way they still work fine even if your are only at like 60% hp. (60% starting means they would get removed at 30% hp)

Definitely a t-up though, doesn't make the images themselves any stronger than they are currently, just makes it basically impossible to know which is the real ck for the duration which should be fair to set it off from other image spells since it is an ultimate.

[Unnamed_]

Originally Posted by Zack1996

Tell Icefrog to make the delay between cast and Image appearing to near 0. Make the Images start auto-attacking a hero stunned by Chaos Bolt, and reduce the cooldown. There. Phantasm is good xD

T-Down to your suggestion. Its rather OP. And illusions don't grant gold (do they?)

No, they don't, but it could easily be done.

OT:
It is a very tricky suggestion.First of all, with illusions taking 2 times less damage, but dying at 50% HP, you give them no bonus at all, unless the fact that it will be harder to find the real CK.Still, he has to cast skills, so he isn't that hard to be found.That said, this is no buff whatsoever.
BUT..you want to make his images give gold to the enemy?!!?!?
WTF man, CK is already a weak hero only seen in pubs and some TDAs.

This whole idea is a huge nerf to him, and his team.HUGE T-Down on this suggestion + this belongs to remakes, has nothing to do with gameplay.

[doomsheep]

i didnt notice the gold part before, WTF is it for?

WTF man, CK is already a weak hero only seen in pubs and some TDAs.

actually its the opposite, hes good but never seen in pubs.

[kanzakill]

Originally Posted by Unnamed_

BUT..you want to make his images give gold to the enemy?!!?!?
WTF man, CK is already a weak hero only seen in pubs and some TDAs.

Just checked about the bonus gold for images. It can be done but it costs a lot of codes deleted that idea.

Originally Posted by doomsheep

i didnt notice the gold part before, WTF is it for?

Err, don't know. The sleepiness did it, not me

actually its the opposite, hes good but never seen in pubs.

I saw him in pubs about 5 times yesterday

@ fffcx2:
Man, remember that each of the images have 100% attack power

[Unnamed_]

You deleted the gold because it is a lot of coding?Coding doesn't take a lot of map space, nor is something you should worry about.
The gold should've been removed because it doesn't fit, not because it is a long code - with JASS it isn't that long, with GUI is.

[KenpachiSlardar]

thumbs down man
that makes him overpowered.....

[fffxc2]

Originally Posted by kanzakill

@ fffcx2:
Man, remember that each of the images have 100% attack power

Also remember that your suggested change won't make the images any stronger than they are currently, only make the real hero impossible to pick out from the images for the duration and that is only if you don't cast anything else, because the cast animation from a chaos bolt or blink strike will give the real one away.

[UrbanSpirit]

What most people don't realize is that Phantasm is the ultimate pushing skill, you can ignore the enemy team and take down barracks in a few seconds with 3 100% dmg illusions. It doesn't need a buff.

[kanzakill]

Originally Posted by Unnamed_

You deleted the gold because it is a lot of coding?Coding doesn't take a lot of map space, nor is something you should worry about.
The gold should've been removed because it doesn't fit, not because it is a long code - with JASS it isn't that long, with GUI is.

It's deleted anyway so don't care about small details man

Originally Posted by fffxc2

Also remember that your suggested change won't make the images any stronger than they are currently, only make the real hero impossible to pick out from the images for the duration and that is only if you don't cast anything else, because the cast animation from a chaos bolt or blink strike will give the real one away.

Well I thought that it may be too OP that he can tank very well his images. Anyway, after playing Nessaj a few times this afternoon. I realized that:
1st
HE DOESN'T HAVE MANA FOR THE ULTIMATE SKILL!
Which means, the skill right now doesn't worth that much mana.

2nd
NO ONES PICK ULTIMATE SKILL UNTIL LATEGAME

So I think that it's pretty balanced (and fairer) this way. And remember, the duration is only 20 seconds!

Originally Posted by UrbanSpirit

What most people don't realize is that Phantasm is the ultimate pushing skill, you can ignore the enemy team and take down barracks in a few seconds with 3 100% dmg illusions. It doesn't need a buff.

Man, you give a killer/ganker a pushing skill and say it's ok?
Who would choose it over your lifesaving Blink Strike / crazy Critical Strike?
And by the way, the skill right now doesn't worth that much mana, as stated above.

So, ...
CHANGES WE NEED!

[UrbanSpirit]

Do you realize the fact you're suggesting to buff a skill that gives you 400% dps output? (i'm not even considering the x3 criticals...)
CK is a ganker/killer? Why? He's a fucking late game monster who can take down a whole team, a tower and the barracks in those 20 seconds of ultimate.
His skillset allows him to be a good roamer, but that doesn't mean that he can't push or even carry with some items. You don't change the skills to make a hero fit a specific role, it is decided by the players acording to the game.
And who said that you must skip the other skills in order to get Phantasm? We ALL know that the skill order must be stun/blink/stun/blink/stun/blink/stun/blink/stats/Phantasm/Phantasm/crit/crit/crit/crit/Phantasm.
Please, go play some games with him instead of making retarded close-minded statements like that one.

Or watch this replay:
[IDEC]SF by MiSeRy | Replays.Net DotA??Rep?? | DotA????? DotA AllStars | Dota.Replays.Net

The only thing that needs to be fixed is his casting animation.

[kanzakill]

The only question:

Originally Posted by UrbanSpirit

Do you realize the fact you're suggesting to buff a skill that gives you 500% dps output? (i'm not even considering the x3 criticals...)

What are you talking about?

[UrbanSpirit]

It's 400%, fixed.

If you still don't get the point, read his ultimate:
Nessaj DotA Hero - DotA Allstars Official Websites