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Old 12-21-2009, 09:09 AM   #1
Iamyournoob
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Default How to play Invoker!


Good day to you!

I have recently discovered my love for invoker. I have already played him a couple of times some while ago, but I never got Scepter on him...

However. When I first tried him I went for the idiot glass cannon build with Forge Spirit and Power Treads + Desolator. I didnt really bother about using invoke. I just focussed on having deafening blast and forged spirits ready (late game). Early game I sticked to Forge Spirit, Ice Wall and Cold Snap. It worked. At least in Publics.

Well I played him again and I started off with the same build. Forge Spirit for last hitting and lane control. It worked. But instead of going Desolator I decided to get Agha and when I had it ready, I fell in love with Invoker's playstyle. I surely need a lot of practice but the variety of spells this dude has is purely amazing.

Now after a couple of more games I am facing the following problem:

I find Exort for damage in order to last hit very important. It is a must to level. The same goes for Quas because of the regen when facing strong harassment. And those two things combined mean: Forge Spriti ---> even better last hitting and deny as well as pushing.
However: I want to have Wex. Because of Deafening Blast. Because of Meteor to fend off pushes/ to push. I want that awesome tornado thing. And EMP is a pain in the ass.

So to finally get to the point after all this jibber-jabber:

When is the best moment ot get Wex?
After getting one point in Wex, which of the three spells should I level afterwards? Focus on one of them or level Wex so that they are all equal in levels and then max the one which is best for the game situation?

Regards
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Old 12-21-2009, 02:25 PM   #2
TobiasOat
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Default Re: How to play Invoker!

My best guess is to adapt to your enemy's lineup?

You could also refer to this (from Esryok's guide)
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Old 12-21-2009, 02:34 PM   #3
JukeboxDragon
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Default Re: How to play Invoker!

I don't find that an effective chart, because Invoker can be a much greater carry than most agi heroes.
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Old 12-21-2009, 06:42 PM   #4
AzureD
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Default Re: How to play Invoker!

Yeah but what can make Invoker a carry can make already strong carries even stronger if you use your skills to support them and not yourself.

Anyway I play the E+Q Invoker build a lot. It depends on the game but you can go with maxing Exort to 4 first. Then maxing Quas to 4 next. Then get 1 Wex and possibly 2 Wex. 2 Wex makes your Tornado into a useful spell. With 2 Wex you can combo into Tornado, Meteor, Deafening Blast. Or Tornado + Ice Wall + Whatever you deem necessary. All this time get Invoke when you feel it is appropriate.

For example I often stay with level 1 invoke until I am level 10 just so I can get double spirits at level 9. At that point in the game double spirits is one of your strongest spells. However sometimes I need the disables more so I get invoke earlier and delay spirits so I can use Ice Wall + Cold Snap if I need it.

Quas is often the last thing I max out after it reaches level 4. Although maxing quas after 2 levels of wex is ok too. I just like maxing wex more for the Tornado + Meteor + Deafening Blast + EMP combo in team fights. Also the super long range tornado is good for sniping and scouting and can be used for a Tornado + Sunstrike long range snipe combo. Does exactly 764 magic damage at a max of 3100 range with 4 Quas, 7 Wex, 7 Exort. Nice for those chases where enemy has gotten really far from you. They die if they have less than 573 hit points unless they have other forms of magic resist.
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:08 AM   #5
(TK)WhiteWolf
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Default Re: How to play Invoker!

I usually put one point of each in early to have access to all spells. So I put 4 in exort, 4 in Quas that means I have 2 Forge Spirits and so I max only Wex. But depending on the game could be more useful max Quas or Exort first and so Wex.
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Old 12-22-2009, 08:56 AM   #6
Zachpwnsu
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Default Re: How to play Invoker!

Extort
Wex
Extort
Invoke
Extort
Quas(quas when you hit lvl 6 so you can use deaf blast + meteor)
Extort
Quas
Extort
Invoke( lvl 10 2 spells )
Quas
Invoke(lvl 12)
Quas( When you hit lvl 13 you can solo rosh with the 2 spirits. )
Wex
Quas
And so forth. Get lvl 17 (invoke 4 sec cd)


Level 15 though you can start to use tornado meteor deaf blast combo. YOU NEED 5 QUAS in order to keep them in the air long enough to cast the meteor and then the deaf blast.
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Old 12-22-2009, 10:51 AM   #7
Iamyournoob
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Default Re: How to play Invoker!

Thanks for the input. Some good thoughts on this that really helped me. I often do not really need clear advices but rather ideas, general ways of thinking to understand the role of a hero. I think in the end it all comes down to playing Invoker a lot and find an own playstyle. But I like the idea of not getting more than two/four points in Quas.

One question: How about items? Scepter-rush?
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Old 12-22-2009, 12:43 PM   #8
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Default Re: How to play Invoker!

EQ build all the way.

I usually start off -

E
R
Q
E
Q
E
Q
E

Q - At this point, lvl 9, you can have 2 Spirits. Abuse it, at lvl 9, very few with the exceptions of well fed str heroes, can stand toe to toe with you(3 exort) and your summons without dying.
R - needed for second invoke space, soon as I have this I invoke QQER for ice wall. Again, abuse this. Trapping someone in ice wall and wailing on them with 3 exort orbs invoker and 2 spirits is usually a death sentence for them.
W - ghost walk, life saver. Get used to QQWRV, once you have the 2s CD on invoke atlvl 17 w/ aghanims, you're not only a monster, but you can run away like no-ones business with Ice wall, cold snap, ghost walk, tornado, you literally can cause hell to any attacker.

After that, E or Q, whatever really, somtimes even W if teamfights going on alot, then just quickly invoke EEWR and throw a meteor somewhere. QWER after that and blast something, maybe throw a tornado, then get out

For roaming (which you should be doing), EEQRQQER sets you up with Spirits and wall, hotkeys F and G, both easy to reach and press. Inform your allies of a sure kill (lets face it, no-one escapes a wall with 3 people and 2 spirits wailing on them), throw down the wall right across their escape path (dagger helps alot here, usually next item after Aghanims), and take the gold from their dead body.

Just a point on 'support' Invoker. Don't bother. Tornado>EMP is a good combo, but its not enough to pick Invoker for. You can support by QQQRY for cold snap, and throwing that down on their carry, and later on when W is a bit higher, you can support AFTER you cause chaos. That meteor is insane, people don't like it. It can scatter a whole team, which pretty much means your team wins the fight.

Edit- A great tip I saw some guy doing few days back. He was sentinel, bottom lane, and was using EQ build. He stood in the cut off forests by the side shop, hidden and with a TP scroll ready, and was microing his spirits to last hit on the lane a short way away. No-one knew were he was, he was safe. They eventually came and killed his spirits, they didn't even try and find him, so he summoned more and kept going. Made him a shit ton of gold without being ganked in the slightest.
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Last edited by SirTrash; 12-22-2009 at 12:47 PM.
Old 12-22-2009, 03:02 PM   #9
Esryok
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Default Re: How to play Invoker!

Items I commonly get when using a Forge Spirits build are:

Blink Dagger - You can start a battle by blinking in or behind the enemy targets and dropping both the Elementals and the Ice Wall. At higher levels it's also not a bad idea to then switch to Deafening Blast and stun/pacify your enemies as your team moves in.

Eul's Scepter - Use the cyclone, run up, drop Ice Wall and Elementals. When they drop down they'll be in for some hurt. If you can't kill them for the three seconds minimum they'll be slowed by the wall you can always toss off a Cold Snap.

Radiance - Radiance is great with Cold Snap, and helps you chew through creep waves quickly so you can keep your elementals focused on a tower.

Shiva's Guard - A hefty boost to your EHP, and a decent nuke and slow. Helps when you are trying to gank or push. The slow keeps them in range of your elementals longer.

Mekansm - I like Support Invoker. This also helps in pushes, allowing you to boost your creeps' and your summons' EHP before taking on a tower.

Guinsoo - You need mana, and this helps a lot. The disable is also great for chaining with your other abilities (Ice Wall, Cold Snap, really short range Tornados). Boosts your HP too.

Stygian Desolator - If you feel like being a one man armor reducing machine (don't delude yourself though, Slardar takes that prize hands down) you can get this. Great for ganks, and boosting the damage of your allies.

Bloodstone - If you find yourself in lots of team battles and are just racking up kills/assists, go for this. Mana is good, EHP is even better.

Linken's Sphere - If you are pushing a lot this gives you a small window of time to go invisible, or counter attack, or just plain not get instagibbed. Again, EHP and mana help.
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Old 12-22-2009, 09:35 PM   #10
Zachpwnsu
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Default Re: How to play Invoker!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamyournoob View Post
Thanks for the input. Some good thoughts on this that really helped me. I often do not really need clear advices but rather ideas, general ways of thinking to understand the role of a hero. I think in the end it all comes down to playing Invoker a lot and find an own playstyle. But I like the idea of not getting more than two/four points in Quas.

One question: How about items? Scepter-rush?
Rush guinsoo for unlimited mana/ guinsoo damage. When you finish your guinsoo youll have around +100 damage and you will never run out of mana when you need it most. Then depending on the game, if your losing bad, you rush scepter. If you guys are dong ok then you get boots of travel so you can farm easily. SCEPTER IS A MUST ON THIS HERO. At least for me because 5 seconds to invoke another skill is just WAY TO LONG
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Old 12-23-2009, 12:19 AM   #11
AzureD
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Default Re: How to play Invoker!

Getting scepter at the right time depends on build. Always always get it. But do not always rush it. Well, with E+Q build I pretty much rush aghanim. With a W+Q build I delay it till after my Euls.

Something to try in pubs with E+Q build is to solo Roshan at level 10. It is possible to do it at level 9 too but takes a little more time than I like.

I also very strongly recommend you get a level in wex by the time you you reach level 11 with E+Q build.
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Old 12-23-2009, 12:24 AM   #12
(TK)WhiteWolf
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Default Re: How to play Invoker!

I disagree about rush Guinsso(mainly for a new invoker player), first of all you will suffer farming the expensive components of Guinso. Second, Aghamim > Guinso everytime. For what you need mana if you can't chain more than 3 spells(because "high" Invoke cooldown at level 3)?

Another thing... while you spend a lot early game potential(because of lack of items, once Guinso components take a good time to farm), you can rush Aghamim(starting with Point Booster that increase great your early survival and mana problem). At this point(about level 11~15) you will have all mana that you need. A lot better than Guinso is Eul's Scepter, because it solve your mana regen problem as Guinso and better... it increase one of your weak points... your movespeed, even with Wex you are slow(only about high Wex levels you win against a Phase user), so, imo, Eul is better than Guinso.

Another important point... Invoker has a horrible stats gain and you need to do Items that solve this, you will say... Guinso do the job, it's true, but as a late game item and not a core. As a core item you need have mana to chain spells and not mana regen, again aghamim is better because you stop wasting mana using Invoke.

So for me I could always say... Scepter always as first core item, but is all about playstyle, some rush Desolator and play well.

I give you a suggestion if you are very new with hero... to become a good invoker player you don't need to hit buttons fast, but the truly invoker have to know WHAT and WHEN to use this or another Skill and Item build. So if you are really new I suggest one of the Hotkey 's tools. Some say that it's a noob thing, but seriouly, first of all you need to know how to survive and how to gank chain him, after you try don't use the Hotkey(knowing very well all spells at your disposal is the key, memorize the combinations not, because first you have to be useful to your team to play him and not a easy target that in combat confuse the spells). It worked for me, if you have difficult, use a Hotkey program and after master spells and playstyle you don't use Hotkey.
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Old 12-23-2009, 07:16 PM   #13
AzureD
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Default Re: How to play Invoker!

IMO the most important thing about playing Invoker well is positioning. Second most important thing is situational awareness for using the right spell at the right time. Like above poster said but in orer of importance. WHERE, WHAT, and WHEN.

Being able to do the combinations quickly is just a basic aspect to Invoker and will not make you good from just that alone.
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Old 12-23-2009, 07:59 PM   #14
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Default Re: How to play Invoker!

I strongly advise training to use his skills fast.
I did this in singleplayer - wtfmode, using a script that popped a message like
"IceWall" one after the other.
(In random time-intervalls).

This really makes you faster in normal games, and thats what invoker is mostly about: being fast.
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