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Old 03-21-2014, 01:33 PM   #1
tonysniper
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Question Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4


Prior to level 11, which one is better for small/medium skirmishes? Assuming you take one point of each skill by level 3.

Level 4 Arc light has 140 damage, which is roughly 280 damage every 4 seconds, along with 350 damage every 5(?) seconds...but then there is static field's 11% current HP as damage for each cast.
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Old 03-21-2014, 02:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

Maxed Static gives 6% more current HP in damage while maxed Arc gives 60. Therefore the breakeven point is 1k current HP considering Arc casts only.

Bolt has 3x the effective cd of Arc, so in theory the benefit of maxed Static does trigger 33% more often than that of maxed Arc; it helps a bit but diminishes as enemy HP gets lower during the course of a fight.

So, if your enemies are at around 1k HP, which is usually the case pre-level 11, go for max Arc.
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Old 03-21-2014, 04:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by aestropher View Post
Maxed Static gives 6% more current HP in damage while maxed Arc gives 60. Therefore the breakeven point is 1k current HP considering Arc casts only.

Bolt has 3x the effective cd of Arc, so in theory the benefit of maxed Static does trigger 33% more often than that of maxed Arc; it helps a bit but diminishes as enemy HP gets lower during the course of a fight.

So, if your enemies are at around 1k HP, which is usually the case pre-level 11, go for max Arc.
Or feline friend here has given us a very good explaniation, however I want to add that while this might lead you to think that maxing arc is the ebst desition all the time, what our friend here is trying to point out is that the choice between those skills depends on the nature of the enemies you are facing. For example if the enemy has plenty of tanky heroes such has Treant, Jak, Batrider, Centa, Ogre Magi, etc. Then you should max Field, in the other hand if you face glass cannon heroes such has Sniper, Bone, CM you want to max Arc instead. Also take in to consideration heroes that fill those conditions but have skills that will make you rethink your choice, for example LS, Rubick, Void, Xin who will lead you to think Field or Arc are good choices but they have skills who provide them magic resistance in a %, or in a raw number (or magic inmunity) thus forcing you to take a different approach.
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Old 03-21-2014, 04:42 PM   #4
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

Most of the time, you'll be blasting things with less than 1k HP. Maybe they started out above 1k, but they don't get to stay at full HP and for most of the fight they're likely to be below 1k. Remember that this is at level 11. Hopefully you don't have to contend with Hearts or Satanics or Skadis buffing everyone's health this early.
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Old 03-21-2014, 04:43 PM   #5
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

I usually max the static aura first because the difference in damage between level 1 and level 4 Arc is only 60 damage. Since levels in Arc don't lower the CD, you just spam out the level 1 arc the entire fight. Zeus does his best early by spamming Arc until his opponent is low enough to burst down with Bolt/Ult.
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Old 03-21-2014, 04:48 PM   #6
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamerhead33 View Post
I usually max the static aura first because the difference in damage between level 1 and level 4 Arc is only 60 damage. Since levels in Arc don't lower the CD, you just spam out the level 1 arc the entire fight. Zeus does his best early by spamming Arc until his opponent is low enough to burst down with Bolt/Ult.
Can you guess what the difference between level 1 and level 4 Static Field is early/mid? What you're paying for when you level Arc is guaranteed damage + bounces.
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Old 03-21-2014, 04:50 PM   #7
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

Generally I would max field first unless the other team is full of glass cannons or you have a CM/Kotl etc to feed you mana.
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Old 03-21-2014, 05:14 PM   #8
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

You should be maxing Arc over Static every time. Don't let Juice argue that "static hits invis fields in fog" as a reason to not take the obviously better skill that let's Zeus farm better, kill better, participate better, and just be better over a passive percentage based scale that with simple "maths" as already pointed out doesn't work so well when targets are under 1000 health which is most often.
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Old 03-21-2014, 05:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFuNerdNinja View Post
Can you guess what the difference between level 1 and level 4 Static Field is early/mid? What you're paying for when you level Arc is guaranteed damage + bounces.
And a lot more mana. You're better off saving some mana for lightning bolt since bursting down a single target way faster is 99% of the time way more important.

Static field max purely for mana conservation, once you start getting a respectful amount of mana regen and mana pool, thats when arc lightning starts getting good.
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Old 03-21-2014, 06:02 PM   #10
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blarrg View Post
And a lot more mana. You're better off saving some mana for lightning bolt since bursting down a single target way faster is 99% of the time way more important.

Static field max purely for mana conservation, once you start getting a respectful amount of mana regen and mana pool, thats when arc lightning starts getting good.
Level 4 Arc costs 15 more than level 1. It's a non-issue.
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Old 03-21-2014, 07:31 PM   #11
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by KungFuNerdNinja View Post
Level 4 Arc costs 15 more than level 1. It's a non-issue.
It's mana consumption is almost twice higher than what a SR gives you, for instance.
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Old 03-21-2014, 09:52 PM   #12
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyzzy View Post
It's mana consumption is almost twice higher than what a SR gives you, for instance.
If you're for some reason spamming it nonstop, even when there's no fight, you're going to regret the extra investment. My advice is to use the spell only when you have a reason to.
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Old 03-21-2014, 10:16 PM   #13
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

The breakeven is 2k max hp. No one will have that much before you hit level 14.
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Old 03-21-2014, 11:06 PM   #14
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

On my personal experience, I prefer leaving arc lvl 1 and maxing the rest first.

The damage difference on 1k- heroes isnt that much, but the increased mana cost on the spell i use to last hit/harass on laning phase just bothers me too much.

lvl 1,12,13,14 - arc
lvl 2,8,9,10 - static
lvl 3,4,5,7 Bolt
(ult whenever possible)
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Old 03-22-2014, 07:55 AM   #15
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

+5 mana per level on a hero who typically makes some combination of Euls, Force, Arcanes, possibly Veil, whoof. Guess we shouldn't take extra points into Chilling Touch, Shurikean Toss, Lightning Bolt, Black Hole, Land Mines, Blade Fury, Omnislash, Dual breath...

Yeah... no there's no point in the extra statics. Stats would be more beneficial if you're really opposed to taking Arc for some reason; might give you an extra Bolt you never know
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Old 03-22-2014, 11:41 AM   #16
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

People talk like Zeus is some juggernaut that runs out of mana 10 seconds into a fight rofl. Static field won't even proc on most arcs, arc being 3/4 of your casting. Lvl 4 arc is an absurd amount of damage on a 2s cd, like an aoe arcane bolt in the midgame.

Static field is great late, because people will have tons of hp after your ult and initial bolt. It sucks midgame because it does jack shit for your single target burst and sustained dps.
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Old 03-22-2014, 08:27 PM   #17
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

Max arc lightning is better because you can last hit creeps with it, jungle with it, last hit heroes with it, and overall it gives you greater AoE presence. Static field is geared toward late game.

Please remember that static field max and arc at lvl 1 was "the build" BECAUSE arc bounced 5/7/9/11, had 2 sec cd, dealt 130 dmg at lvl 3, and COULD NOT BOUNCE if an arc was currently already bouncing around (ironically this is the same bug plaguing dota2 maelstrom).

Since then, it has gone from
2 sec cd --> 1.75 sec cd
5/7/9/11 --> 5/7/9/15 jumps
85/100/115/130 --> 85/100/115/145 dmg
can't bounce if bouncing --> fixed, CAN bounce while bouncing
700 cast range --> 850 cast range

TL;DR: arc lightning buffed on all fronts, meanwhile static field still remains a static entity

Don't get me wrong, static field is still a good skill. It's just meant for later on, like dispersion. If static field had all of its buffs reverted it would definitely be the superior option.

I do not recommend maxing static field before arc in any scenario, even vs 5 beefy strength heroes. Be sure to do 4-4-1 as the serious payoff comes at level 4
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Old 03-22-2014, 09:49 PM   #18
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by KEJO_NACHO View Post
On my personal experience, I prefer leaving arc lvl 1 and maxing the rest first.

The damage difference on 1k- heroes isnt that much, but the increased mana cost on the spell i use to last hit/harass on laning phase just bothers me too much.

lvl 1,12,13,14 - arc
lvl 2,8,9,10 - static
lvl 3,4,5,7 Bolt
(ult whenever possible)
U take the second point in arc at lvl 8. That is at the time when lanes have pretty much fallen apart so it doesn't affect ur laning at all.
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Old 03-22-2014, 11:14 PM   #19
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

if you're playing mid, your general skill build should be QWQWWRW
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Old 03-23-2014, 09:47 PM   #20
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trew View Post
if you're playing mid, your general skill build should be QWQWWRW
I hate it when skill builds are described like this
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Old 03-24-2014, 11:15 PM   #21
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

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Originally Posted by Kypkalorian View Post
I hate it when skill builds are described like this
get used to it ?
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:19 AM   #22
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

arc max is better IMO for 3 reasons:

It can and usually will hit targets over 1k range away through bouncing (as opposed to field)

The damage is much more reliable, and will almost always do more damage than static max until late game. The damage can last hit heroes reliably, field max build is awful for killing heroes except with bolt/ulti.

It allows you to clear waves much faster. This is important for staying out of sight and off map as much as possible.
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Old 05-20-2014, 02:41 PM   #23
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

I know the thread is old and there are lots of good answers, but can anyone provide an answer with numerical explanation?

/summon math guy
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Old 05-20-2014, 03:12 PM   #24
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

The difference between 1 point in Static Field and 4 points in Static Field is 6% of current HP as damage.
The difference between 1 point in Arc Lightning and 4 points in Arc Lightning is:
60 damage
10 jumps
15 mana cost

The cutoff point where the targets hit by the Arc Lightning take the same damage no matter if you max Arc Lightning or Static Field is 1000 hit points.
1000x6%=60 which is the same amount of damage as the difference between max Arc and 1-point Arc.

You'll be level 10 when you have 4 Lightning Bolt, 1 Thundergods Wrath, 4 in either Arc or Static Field and 1 in the other of Static Field or Arc. If your enemies are similarily leveled, they are unlikely to have much more then 1000 max HP meaning that the damage advantage is in Arc Lightnings advantage since it will still deal 60 damage once your enemies go below max HP while Static Field will deal less and less damage as your enemies current HP goes lower as the fight goes on. Static Field will get better and better as the farm levels in the game goes up but if you are playing solo mid you should be among the top levels in the game and be able to fill in Static Field as peoples HP goes up to the point where it would be better then Arc max. None of this accounts for the fact that 5 jumps on level 1 Arc Lightning will massively increase the chance you won't hit all enemy heroes around with the Arc Lightning itself.

I think maxing Arc Lightning is with good margin better then maxing Static Field when you are playing solo mid Zeus. If you are playing support Zeus and you are falling behind in levels maxing Static Field might be better.
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Old 05-20-2014, 03:38 PM   #25
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

I can't do percentages in my head, so I think leaving arc at level 1 and maxing static field is a good rule of thumb.
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Old 05-20-2014, 07:37 PM   #26
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

Arc over static unless youre playing vs 5 centaurs or youre a zaport zeus for whatever reason
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Old 05-21-2014, 07:12 AM   #27
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

The problem with maxing arc and bolt first with no points in static is, early game, there's no way you're going to have the mana required to ult and then spam both of your nukes. You'll run out of mana in a few seconds.
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Old 05-21-2014, 08:22 AM   #28
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

Also, a great way to accelerate your farm is to have a void stone and stack hard camps, then get a point on the field and 4 on the arc and clear them with the 15 op bounces arc has and the 1.75cd, just like a nevermore or a storm can do, but from a lot far away and a lot faster.
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Old 05-21-2014, 09:32 AM   #29
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by mortrom2010 View Post
The difference between 1 point in Static Field and 4 points in Static Field is 6% of current HP as damage.
The difference between 1 point in Arc Lightning and 4 points in Arc Lightning is:
60 damage
10 jumps
15 mana cost

The cutoff point where the targets hit by the Arc Lightning take the same damage no matter if you max Arc Lightning or Static Field is 1000 hit points.
1000x6%=60 which is the same amount of damage as the difference between max Arc and 1-point Arc.

You'll be level 10 when you have 4 Lightning Bolt, 1 Thundergods Wrath, 4 in either Arc or Static Field and 1 in the other of Static Field or Arc. If your enemies are similarily leveled, they are unlikely to have much more then 1000 max HP meaning that the damage advantage is in Arc Lightnings advantage since it will still deal 60 damage once your enemies go below max HP while Static Field will deal less and less damage as your enemies current HP goes lower as the fight goes on. Static Field will get better and better as the farm levels in the game goes up but if you are playing solo mid you should be among the top levels in the game and be able to fill in Static Field as peoples HP goes up to the point where it would be better then Arc max. None of this accounts for the fact that 5 jumps on level 1 Arc Lightning will massively increase the chance you won't hit all enemy heroes around with the Arc Lightning itself.

I think maxing Arc Lightning is with good margin better then maxing Static Field when you are playing solo mid Zeus. If you are playing support Zeus and you are falling behind in levels maxing Static Field might be better.
arent you forgetting that you will also cast your bolt and ult too so the threshold is smaller than 1000 hp due to more procs. Also regardless of the level of arc you will still not hit all enemy heros in a fight.
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Old 05-21-2014, 12:31 PM   #30
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

With one point in Arc & Ult and 4 points in bolt & Static Field, at level 10 you deal around 700 damage to a single target before magic reduction with your combo. With the max arc build you deal a little more damage to a single target but cost more mana. In a teamfight or a gank, if you're implying that the enemy will have less than 1k hp, either build will need one more spell or some hits from an ally to burst down one hero. Unless you want to stack and clear camps like apokita mentioned, why bother increase your mana cost so early in the game when you can't sustain your mana. If you're arguing about arc gives more hits in a teamfight as it hits more target, having an extra 45 damage (after magic reduction) in a teamfight every 2 second seem appealing especially if they have less than 1k hp. However, unless you're stomping, the heroes which you want to aim, which are the enemy's cores are equally as farmed as your team, they will have over 1k hp. In this case, max static field will deal more damage. To add on, if you're maxing arc, you are forced to buy mana sustaining items. Furthermore, before you reach level 14, which is the time that you get to max static field , even enemy supports will have over 1k hp with bracers provided that everything goes smoothly for you and the opponent. If you somehow experience a slump during mid game, a max static field will help more in making a comeback than a max arc. Due to these factors, imho maxing static is better and safer.
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Old 05-21-2014, 12:38 PM   #31
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Default Re: Zeus Arc Lightning 4 VS Static field 4

Arc is better. I used to play max field too but then I realized it was a relic of playing Zeus in the past where chain lightning was just utter shit. Open your minds people.
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