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Old 01-13-2010, 12:23 AM   #1
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Exclamation [Agi-Scourge] Oozka, Dweller of the Marsh


Monstrous ganker/disabler. He's monstrous not only model-wise, but threat-wise too! His disabling abilities are definitely to be considered, and he can even gank with ease, and take down fragile and unadverted foes.
Testmap is terribly outdated; i just keep it as an aknowledgment to LEM0NS.






Sludge Monstrosity
Oozka


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Old 01-13-2010, 01:08 AM   #2
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Ooza, Forgotten Sludge

^^ I'm glad that you like my BG story.
Nice hero concept, I like all the skill. T-up on this hero
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:04 AM   #3
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Ooza, Forgotten Sludge

Official Review

Model
Fairly unused model, so good there.
Background Story
You don't have one, so can't say anything here...
Stats
Stats seem fine to me. Agility looks maybe a tad high but there are many Agility heroes ranging from all over the board (I think 1.9 to 3.2). You need to do something about his movement speed though, make it lower. He is a ranged hero with a movement speed improvement skill which makes it so he needs a lower base speed. I suggest 285 because +14% MS for him while slowing enemies by 25% MS is a lot.
Dark Slime
This skill reminds me way too much of a passive Spectral Dagger, except instead of targeting an enemy or area it is applied like Batrider's Firefly. I don't have a suggestion for this skill because no offense, I just don't like it.
Sticky Puddle
This skill reminds me too much of Lanaya's ultimate (Psionic Traps). The only difference is that these are a disable over slow and are auto-activated instead of player-activated. I like the idea you're going with here, but I just don't see a lot of originality in it. No real suggestion for this skill.
Dissolve in the Mud
Complete dependency on Sticky Puddle. It isn't banned per say but it isn't liked by most people. I personally don't like skills that are completely dependent on another for its usage. My suggestion for this skill is a complete overhaul OR you make it that Dissolve in the Mud becomes a sub-skill of Sticky Puddle.
Cover of Darkness
This skill is incredibly imbalanced as of now. It combines parts of Doom, Fiend's Grip, and somewhat a Suicide thrown in there. This skill is VERY overpowered because of all of those. Anyone of any intelligence would just get a bunch of mana on this hero and continuously gank solo heroes because they have no chance at living from the massive amount of damage this skill does. Needs a big number rework.
Overall
I really don't see synergy in this skill set outside of Sticky Puddle and Dissolve in the Mud (which I mentioned needs to be changed). I may have missed something I guess. I have always liked this model and was thinking about making a suggestion using it myself but I'm going to refrain that. Overall it was a good suggestion but had some dependency and synergy problems.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:17 AM   #4
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Ooza, Forgotten Sludge

I'll recheck how to nerf the ulti tomorrow. You did in fact lost one little piece of information. Not THAT relevant, but that may count.

Dark Slime can slow multiple targets.
Sticky Puddle can hold multiple targets. (on top levels)
and Sticky Puddle get's an increased duration on slowed targets. See where i'm coming? ;P

Also, i liked ghuy's idea of using HP for the ulti.. I'll keep the MP toggling cost, thou.

I'm trying to think something to make "Dissolve" a sub-skill from Puddles, and add another one.. but all my mind can think that matches the hero's theme is some kind of poison (remember Nargûl? i've got enough with DoT for today xD)

what about adding a bonus damage+ministun against slowed units? something like Sniper's, but 100%, but only on slowed units?
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:36 AM   #5
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Ooza, Forgotten Sludge

Internet issue. All content here is on previous post.
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:14 PM   #6
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Oozka, Dweller of the Marsh

Bump! :P

Added Mudshot and Dissolve in the Mud made a subskill from Sticky Puddle. (Mudshot also plays with Dissolve; read below)

Mudshot - (Active, Targets enemy heroes.)
__________
__________
Oozka spits mud into the enemy's face. Targeted hero will miss some hits and have decreased attack speed, while Oozka may cast Dissolve in the Mud on it.


______.________._______.___._______.__________________________.
 ManaCooldownC. RangeAoEDurationEffects
18020 seconds600N/A6 seconds40% Miss, -10% AS.
28018 seconds600N/A6 seconds50% Miss, -15% AS.
38016 seconds600N/A6 seconds60% Miss, -20% AS.
48014 seconds600N/A6 seconds70% Miss, -25% AS.

Notes:
  • If Oozka uses Dissolve in the Mud on Mudshotted units, he will appear behind them, and affect them with Dark Slime.
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:35 AM   #7
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Oozka, Dweller of the Marsh

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccjmk View Post
Bump! :P

Added Mudshot and Dissolve in the Mud made a subskill from Sticky Puddle. (Mudshot also plays with Dissolve; read below)

Mudshot - (Active, Targets enemy heroes.)
__________
__________
Oozka spits mud into the enemy's face. Targeted hero will miss some hits and have decreased attack speed, while Oozka may cast Dissolve in the Mud on it.


______.________._______.___._______.__________________________.
 ManaCooldownC. RangeAoEDurationEffects
18020 seconds600N/A6 seconds40% Miss, -10% AS.
28018 seconds600N/A6 seconds50% Miss, -15% AS.
38016 seconds600N/A6 seconds60% Miss, -20% AS.
48014 seconds600N/A6 seconds70% Miss, -25% AS.

Notes:
  • If Oozka uses Dissolve in the Mud on Mudshotted units, he will appear behind them, and affect them with Dark Slime.
this skill is just like mud shot in Pokemon !
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:03 AM   #8
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Oozka, Dweller of the Marsh

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghuy_9391 View Post
this skill is just like mud shot in Pokemon !
damn, gotme!
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Old 01-14-2010, 05:03 AM   #9
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Oozka, Dweller of the Marsh

Hey interesting, I rarely see this model for a hero suggestion . Thumps up to that .

Skill 1: I like the idea of it being a passive slime trail, fits great with the theme. I don't like the effect of it though because it reminds me of Spectre. Great idea, just needs to be tweaked I think.

Skill 2: I like this ability a lot, its pretty cool being able to teleport from puddle to puddle. That is new and fits well with theme. The trap theme is nice too.

Skill 3: This is also nice. Also fits great with the theme, and is not dependent on a skill.

Skill 4: This is new and exciting too. It reminds me of bane a bit, but in a different form. I like it.

Skill 1: 1/3
Skill 2: 3/3
Skill 4: 3/3
Ultimate 1/1

Total: 8/10 Definitely a great hero concept, with new and exciting ablities. I just think that the one skill should be fixed up a bit with how it works. Keep up the great work on this hero!
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:26 AM   #10
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Oozka, Dweller of the Marsh

Passivelly adding speed is a concept i took from snarls actually, but i think it fits the "muddy" theme. Also i included the slow effect to matche Sticky Puddle's idea of dense mud. Also, it synergies quite well with Sticky Puddles (slowed units get additional hold time) and ulti (ulti also slows target, which also helps Sticky Puddles to retain the target for more time, giving you more changes for a kill, and slowed units on its own are quite easily ganked)

About Dark Slime, what about if it passively increases MS (but shows only a small, shaded trail) and can be activated to give enemy's MS reduction and some minor DoT? i mean, activating and desactivating it like Armlet of Mordigan.

new skill may be something like this (may need tweaking)

EDIT: i really loved this idea, and added a small feature; read the changelog and recheck skills from the 1st post plz

Basically when you toggle Dark Slime, you mud-shot them, or they step over a puddle, units are Mud-covered. Dissolve in the Mud now can jump on mud, covered units.


Dark Slime - (Passive, Activable)

__________
__________
Oozka leaves a trail of dense and putrefying slime which helps his movement. At will, he can expell a more dense trail that slows downs enemy units and poisons them with deadly fumes.


______.________._______.___._______.__________________________.
 ManaCooldownC. RangeAoEDurationEffects
116 Mana/secondN/AN/A504 SecondsIncreases Oozka MS by 5%; If activated, Oozka leaves a dark trail. When enemies are over it are Mud-Covered, get -10% MS and are dealt 2 damage per second.
219 Mana/secondN/AN/A704 SecondsIncreases Oozka MS by 7%; If activated, Oozka leaves a dark trail. When enemies are over it are Mud-Covered, get -14% MS and are dealt 4 damage per second.
322 Mana/secondN/AN/A1004 SecondsIncreases Oozka MS by 10%; If activated, Oozka leaves a dark trail. When enemies are over it are Mud-Covered, get -19% MS and are dealt 6 damage per second.
425 Mana/secondN/AN/A1504 SecondsIncreases Oozka MS by 14%; If activated, Oozka leaves a dark trail. When enemies are over it are Mud-Covered, get -25% MS and are dealt 8 damage per second.

Notes:
  • AoE marks the trail's width when activated.
  • Units that are next to Oozka (for example, when meele-attacking him) are affected by the slow/DoT effect.
  • The trail lasts 4 seconds after Oozka stepped over there, so it becomes slightly longer the faster he runs.
  • Slow/DoT lasts 2 seconds after the enemy leaves the trail.
  • Units are mud-covered as long as they stay on the trail.
  • Units that are mud-covered can be targeted with Dissolve in the Mud
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Last edited by cc.jmk!; 01-14-2010 at 07:12 AM.
Old 01-14-2010, 10:02 AM   #11
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Oozka, Dweller of the Marsh

ill try to find some good icons for u
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:20 AM   #12
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Oozka, Dweller of the Marsh

Quote:
Originally Posted by backspaceed View Post
ill try to find some good icons for u
Thanks a lot! i'll apreciate that a lot! ^^ btw, have you read the suggestion? :P
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Old 01-15-2010, 03:57 PM   #13
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Oozka, Dweller of the Marsh

Only one short thought. Is the starting dmg a little bit too high concerning he is an agi hero? Sorry I don't play dota so frequently to know this...
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Old 01-15-2010, 05:20 PM   #14
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Oozka, Dweller of the Marsh

mmm maybe, but the fact is that i concieved it a chaser/ganker, so after he slows/holds a target, he should be able to dispatch some reasonable painful damage :P
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Old 01-15-2010, 11:51 PM   #15
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Oozka, Dweller of the Marsh

Heyo ccjmk,

Bare with me as I generally shy away from hero concepts as it's a lot to process compared to a redesigned torrent icon under visuals.

Background Story
Enjoyable to read. Did you write it? The character is unique and has depth (sewer depth! ho ho ho). This might be my first time reading a DotA background story including all implemented heroes. Ha.

Dark Slime

The MS boost and MS reduction seem reasonable and fair. I would like to see some sort of cool down penalty so it can't be toggled on/off for all bonus and no penalty. Timer would ideally start after being toggled off. Make sense?

Sticky Puddle

Love the icon choice. Has wc3 essence. I doubt I understand the concept completely but it sounds like Oozka can dish it out around the map in a similar fashion to Brood's web. Not only that but he can teleport around the map to these puddles giving decent map awareness that strikes a balance between Furion's teleport and Templar Assassin's psionic traps. I definitely approve of this concept. Refreshing and clever if all is accurate.

Mudshot

Ouch. Talk about an effective means to shut down a few heroes like Troll, Ursa, Mortred, etc... Gives Oozka a simply click and target spell getting him involved in the clash. Numbers are steep but duration is probably short in gameplay.

Cover with Darkness

I can't infer the consequences this concept may bring. I'll try to stay positive. To me this looks like a more potent version of Pudge's rot that will totally rape an individual. But like many of these type of skills (pure ownage), they have there counters. This being an ally or two nearby. Or rather a GANK. The 200+ AoE damage is a nice win to the gank counter. Numbers look too good but only Icey can perfect such things.

Overall

This lil' sludge demon from the Throne's toilet looks to be a good addition to the Scourge. The story/skills/skillset are a complete theme. Some say there is a lack of synergy but not every hero needs to be as obvious as Clockwerk Goblin or Tiny. I feel there is enough synergy and all of it synergizes with his theme. Kudos for bringing this guy to life with a well laid out post.

T
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Old 01-16-2010, 01:53 AM   #16
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Oozka, Dweller of the Marsh

Actually, subway, you covered Sticky Puddles quite well. I dunno if you missed it or forgot about Dissolve in the Mud; it's a sub-skill from Puddles, but also plays with mudded units from Dark Slime or Mudshot.

with Sticky Puddles you can set puddles over the map, as you pointed, similar to Broodmother's webs. By usin Dissolve in the Mud, Oozka jumps onto a puddle, and then may come out at other puddles.. But this "dissolve-jump" can also be used as a blink against other units, with the need that they should be 1st "mudded" :P

Also, loved your suggestion for Dark Slime, i'm on it.

EDIT: background story was originally made by ghuy_9391, i just tweaked up a little bit. ^^ credits to her.
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:37 AM   #17
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Oozka, Dweller of the Marsh

The ultimate is just like doom.Very much alike..
The 3rd skill is like a single target Thunder Clap
First skill is ok. Nice Concept. Nothing much to say.
2nd skill is also good. Nothing much to say.

I'll give more text when you have change the ultimate and 3rd skill
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Old 01-16-2010, 02:03 PM   #18
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Oozka, Dweller of the Marsh

After reading it many times, i've deleted the slow effect on the ulti. Still, i don't understand why you compare Mudshot with Thunderclap. The only similarity is that, among other effects, they both reduce AS.
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Old 01-16-2010, 07:20 PM   #19
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Oozka, Dweller of the Marsh

Another Sludge suggestion indeed. I think the model and theme he has just lends itself to dota so well!

Alright I like where you are going with this pile of muck as well, I only have 2 concerns really.

1. Sticky Puddle - Awesome idea and the teleport part of them is brilliant! My main concern is that they are not consumed. Laying 6 of these bad boys down a lane effectively closes it for the other team. Also I suggest possibly decreasing the cast range to where Ooozka is standing. Agility heroes with a slow, blind, and effectively 2 blinks in a row (throw down a puddle behind them, then mudshot, then they have to break free, try to keep keep running, and then you reform on them again... yikes! That being said there is some mean synergy there!

2. Cover with Darkness - I don't know how well this fits an agi hero. You already have an enemy hero slowed and blinded - by lvl 16 you can probably dish that kind of damage out no problemo. I also think it is pretty powerful as well, it's almost Bane's ult - with no limit - for comparable manacost. By lvl 16 you have like 480 mana just off your stats alone - with items this could easily sustain the ult for a gross period of time.

I like him though, my concerns might not even be valid, good work!
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Old 01-16-2010, 09:29 PM   #20
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Default Re: [Agi-Scourge] Oozka, Dweller of the Marsh

Quote:
Originally Posted by tristanosaurus View Post
1. Sticky Puddle - Awesome idea and the teleport part of them is brilliant! My main concern is that they are not consumed.
They are, in fact! read the notes below Sticky Puddle. They disappear 11 seconds after they have being toggled by an enemy; and between being toggled and disappearing, they can't be toggled again. They remain for a period if time, to allow you getting into some other puddle and reforming in that puddle for a quick gank (Notice that Dissolve in the Mud has 2 different casting times: when used in a puddle, it has has 9/7/5/3 seconds delay before reforming in another puddle; but when using it in a mud-covered unit, it works just like a blink (in animation facts, more like a time walk as you quickly get there, not simply "disappear and reappear behind") This note on delay time may also clear your lane effectiveness idea about jumping from puddle to puddle to disorientate people :P you can effectively do that, but not instantaneously.

Quote:
Also I suggest possibly decreasing the cast range to where Ooozka is standing.
i'll consider that if i need to nerf a little bit the overall hero ^^ if noone complies specifically, i prefer to leave it that way. Initially Oozka was ranged (he spited mud :P) but i've turned him onto a meele hero due to the ulti. If i need to change the ulti, i'll almost for sure make him ranged again.

Quote:
2. Cover with Darkness - I don't know how well this fits an agi hero. You already have an enemy hero slowed and blinded - by lvl 16 you can probably dish that kind of damage out no problemo. I also think it is pretty powerful as well, it's almost Bane's ult - with no limit - for comparable manacost.
Please note that manacost is only the triggering cost. After starting channeling Cover with Darkness, it consumes your own HP.

I hope that clarifies your points
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