[REMAKE]Dagon (charge-based, not recipe-based)

[R.B.Economy]

Dagon is a great item for nuke-combo heroes, but it's viability is often scrutinized due to its low cost vs worth effectiveness. Who would want to spend 1350 gold 5 times to get an item that only has 1 burst of single target damage with almost no defensive values at all? Players would of course spend their gold elsewhere for more items to fill their slots, as each item strengthens a hero and pays off for their gold more than upgrading a Dagon.

Changelog:
August 11
• Assists now give charges as kills do.
August 8
• Using Energy Burst will reset charges to 0.
• If Dagon bearer dies, all charges are lost.

Hereby I present you a better future of Dagon:

Dagon


2875

Bought From: Arcane Sanctum

A mysterious scepter that increasingly boosts its bearer's offensive magic as it claims more lives.

Bonus
+200 health
+150 mana
+60% mana regeneration
Energy Burst (active)

Recipe

Point Booster (1200)


Sobi Mask (325)


Dagon recipe (1350)

Additional Information

Energy Burst
• Energy Burst gains 1 charge each time the bearer scores a KILL or an ASSIST, up to a maximum of 4 charges.
• Each charge gives 25 Max HP, 25 Max mana and 10% mana regeneration per second
• When the bearer dies, Energy Burst loses ALL charges.
• When Energy Burst is used, Energy Burst loses ALL charges. In order to acquire 4 charges, player would require not just to kill with Dagon, but to kill without Dagon as well.
• Deals 400 + (100 x charge) damage to a target unit
• Costs 245/225/205/185/165 mana, has a 40/36/32/28/24 second cooldown, and a 600/650/700/750/800 cast range depending on the amount of charge Energy Burst has, starting at 0 charge.

*Changes from current Dagon are highlighted in yellow.

Why the change?
• Staff of Wizardry is used too much in recipes. Necronomicon, Eul, Force Staff and Aghanim.
• INT gain doesn't help much for combo-nukers that are usually weak in the health department. However, increase in hp and mana pool benefits all heroes.
• Blades of Attack is used too much in recipes too. Crystalys, Armlet and Phase Boots.
• +3 attributes is minimal and ignorable by the time Dagon is obtained.
• +9 damage is just meh for nuke-based heroes because they aren't dps dealers.
• There's no point in upgrading Dagon, it's just isn't worth it.
• The build up parts are definitely more useful before getting Dagon.
• The bonuses work and scale better throughout the whole game.
• Charge functions perfectly for nuke-combo based heroes that often kills. Whether the player can keep Dagon at its maximum bonuses depend on the player's ability to keep himself from being killed.

[Avide]

I was hoping to see something more like diffusal blade's charges concept than bloodstone's charges concept
Like: dagon 1 has 3 charges. everytime you buy dagon recipe you get +3 charges. Dagon 5 has unlimited amount of charges.
Then reduce recipe gold cost from 1350 to 1150 or so...

[R.B.Economy]

Originally Posted by Avide

I was hoping to see something more like diffusal blade's charges concept than bloodstone's charges concept
Like: dagon 1 has 3 charges. everytime you buy dagon recipe you get +3 charges. Dagon 5 has unlimited amount of charges.
Then reduce recipe gold cost from 1350 to 1150 or so...

If the charge is like diffusal's, then the Energy Burst damage can't be scaled. It will stay at 400 damage. There's also the passive hp/mp and regen bonus. Dagon's power is scaled, that's why it works better with Bloodstone's charge-type.

[Zack1996]

It sounds too much like Bloodstone.
Also, you do realise that you just made "Dagon 5" so much cheaper? It now costs 2.8k and 4 kills. Not that difficult for the heroes who get this (killers, mainly). Wouldn't this be kinda Rigged?

Null for now.

[R.B.Economy]

Numbers can be changed. If 4 kills are too little, it can be scaled to 8 kills, or even more. The bonuses,mana cost, cooldown and cast range can be rescaled accordingly. How do you find the concept?

[Whitefang]

Hey Eethn, I suggest you use energy booster instead of point booster, it is overuse too.

[Whitefang]

Hey Eethn, I suggest you use energy booster instead of point booster, it is overuse too.

[Redeemed A.I.]

I am not sure if I like this or not.
From one point of view,the recipe change is indeed clever and useful.
From the other hand you indeed made level 5 dagon cheaper ,but also more situational..

...
I like it,t-up XD

[dresmasher]

I think it's a nice concept, a semi-bloodstone that keeps it's dagonish nature.


t-up

[Light-Coke]

Dagon rush. Mages rocks early game anyway, so couple of kills at early-mid game is a piece of cake with heroes such as Crystal Maiden, Lich, Tinker, et cetera. You'd pump them up into a monsterwhackingspree before latemid-game, since they'd have this dagon maxed up in no time.

[Wyvernoid]

I think this could be too overpowered just as Light-Coke described above. Multiple ways to nerf this item:
1. On death all charges are lost, instead of only 1. This could make it a challenge to use the item for heroes like CM.
2. When you use the item all charges are used, resetting the item's charge to 0. This gives the feeling of the charges building up and being released in a burst, which IMO fits conceptually.
3. Or if 2. nerfed it too much, just make it the normal way - one use, one charge.
4. If the item is not used for 2 minutes or so, one charge is lost. This is somewhat like bottle holding runes.
The above are just ideas.

[doomsheep]

its good, except charges going when u die, or charges giving stats. just have it get charges per every kill and lose per every cast and i t-up.

[savorxit]

wait wait wait wait.

has anyone realized that this would take out current dagon away?

Huge t-down, keep your filthy hands off my dagon.

[Hero Hunter]

I like your concept, the numbers are a bit overpowered, but they can be changed.

[Light-Coke]

Originally Posted by savorxit

wait wait wait wait.

has anyone realized that this would take out current dagon away?

Huge t-down, keep your filthy hands off my dagon.

I think they realize. That's why they support.
It's good at early-mid game, but the damage loses the potentiality pretty fast as everyone gains more HP. To make it more potential, you need to level it up with huge amount of money. And eventually you've spent more money into it than you would if you had gotten skadi. It's waste of money, and very situational item that doesn't fit more than couple of heroes.

This change makes it less int-item and more nuke-booster item.

Component-wise. I still hesitate with the add.

[savorxit]

Originally Posted by Light-Coke

I think they realize. That's why they support.
It's good at early-mid game, but the damage loses the potentiality pretty fast as everyone gains more HP. To make it more potential, you need to level it up with huge amount of money. And eventually you've spent more money into it than you would if you had gotten skadi. It's waste of money, and very situational item that doesn't fit more than couple of heroes.

Yeah but that's what makes a dagon.. a dagon.. haha. Early game ownage. If we go by this concept, we should buff the rest of the early game items.

[Zirath]

Originally Posted by savorxit

Yeah but that's what makes a dagon.. a dagon.. haha. Early game ownage. If we go by this concept, we should buff the rest of the early game items.

How is Dagon really early game? It costs 2.850k, that's the same as rushing BoTs. You can't really get it til mid game reasonably and you had to be ganking well for that.

Though when I heard charges I thought Magic Stick. Now that would have been interesting.

[Jay.J]

Originally Posted by Light-Coke

Dagon rush. Mages rocks early game anyway, so couple of kills at early-mid game is a piece of cake with heroes such as Crystal Maiden, Lich, Tinker, et cetera. You'd pump them up into a monsterwhackingspree before latemid-game, since they'd have this dagon maxed up in no time.

You end up taking kills away from your carry for an additional 100 damage, 50 cast range and less mana. This would be ridiculously overpowered in Pubs though. Remember that you have to get the kill WITH the Dagon itself though if I understand, which doesn't make it THAT easily charged. I don't like the components, but I like the idea.

[Light-Coke]

Ohh. I didn't get that part where you must kill with the dagon.
I can already see more dagon-stealers in publics than there already is.

It's not like your carry is present all the time. Sometimes other people must kill as well.
And as you mentioned, in publics this would rape assholes.

[Jay.J]

I like it for higher games, but this is disgusting for pubs and would even ruin pub games. It should be balanced for both but I can't think of anything while still remaining with the theme.

Remember you lose charges with death though. Even if you charge it +1 or +2, you'll probably also die unless your team is dominating. Even if you charge it up, you'll probably lose charges.