[STR-Neutral] Goliath the Guardian Golem

[IplayRandom]

Well, the hero has an offensive move, now you've added another. I know perfectly well that a hero without any offensive moves is quite boring. One of the first heroes I commented on here was a tauren chieftan, who could only pusback enemies and pretty much nothing else but supportive skills. Take note that I have nothing against the new skill ( well, other than balance, which is crap atm), so there's no reason to attack me on that part. I know that the old effect was problematic, which is why a change was needed. Of course not only because of that, but mostly due to already discussed issues. It just needed a replacement and here it is. Because of that, it doesn't matter to me what changes the roles undergo. Fact is that something, which was horrible, is now repaired.

Like I said though, I don't think I will be monitoring this hero any further. In fact I only came back because it seems some sense was knocked in this thread. There's no reason to keep commenting here.

So gl and hf, like before.

[NHP54]

Further tweaks are in progress.

[eleazar03]

1st skill- is it a ground or unit target spell? its a new way to do wave form. and a good disable skill.

2nd skill- i don't get the rescue part of the skill. does he use the skill when its not cooling down?

3rd skill- i like the skill in-all, this makes him an even more useful hero during clashes, esp now that HoT no longer regen in combat.

ultimate- i like the idea. although i think protection number should be placed on HP or Mana of the stone. the skill is good enough that enemies should be able to see what their up against. but that's just my opinion.

In all, I think he is a good tank and support. which i think we still lack in DotA. having only 2 full-support heroes(i think). Good Job

[Sp1nner]

I will give you full review later. (cuz of busy job)

First thing is intelligence, 18 + 2.0 is not too small.

Second, your skills are too complicated, there isn't any simple effect skill. Every skill has 3 or more effects. 3 armor-type skill in 1 hero?

I think you should simplify it.

NULL vote for now.

[Mystique-]

hey, i'm sorry for late response - haven't been as active on PD as usual. but feel free to send me a PM whenever - i'll always respond since i like this hero a lot

I think all the trigger checking for HP seems like a hassle. Check enemy max HP%, then check all nearby ally heroes for the lowest one. In my honest opinion, I don't think there is a need for this.

Why make it target-able on all heroes instead? This still essentially retains the same spell effects:

• if enemy: reduces armor and deals physical damage based on foes max HP%
• if ally: provides bonus armor and heals based on ally's max HP%. (can be castable on self).
  • can save ally from a fatal blow; gives an additional heal.

Numbers can be tweaked accordingly. The two main differences now are:

• allies/self armor can be increased
• the damage effect from this spell only affects enemies ONCE within the duration of this spell.

[NHP54]

Hmm, you make some valid points. I will figure out how to balance Lifeline better.

[SilentchiLLL]

i like him t-up ;D

[TL-Flames]

This is a long, long overdue review so I apologize for that. I’ll say first off that I’m not a great fan of supportive heroes so my views are going to be pretty slanted and biased as I prefer heroes that are primarily offensive.

Basics: Everything looks fine although low stats usually indicate a powerful skillset. Massive starting HP and armour might be overpowering but that’s somewhat negated by piss poor starting MS.

Skillset
Rampart Rush: His initiation spell is good but I think it will still be fairly hard to place unless you’re at pointblank range. Its use is also limited because of its linear fashion and the skill is rendered useless if Goliath is stunned. If his role is to tank and enter combat first to draw focus fire, this is a pretty severe limitation. Short range, unable to pass terrain, prone to disable. Just something I think you should take a look at. The other values are fine. Tooltip is also detailed which I like although I didn’t find any mention of how fast the knockback takes place. It could be 300 units over 5 seconds or 300 units over 0.1 I dunno, but it would be nice if you added into the notes section =)

Lifeline: This is a pretty interesting spell as it looks like this will be the primary reason that Goliath will be able to draw fire. You’ve mentioned a “rescue” effect in the tooltip, I’m not sure what that entails =S I don’t have much to say about this skill, it serves its function well and numbers aren’t glaringly imba. 25% hurts but it is physical damage so it works out in the end. The heal is the icing on top of the cake and a nice added effect.

Bodyguard: For an effect that kicks in at 40% or upon death, it isn’t all that powerful. I think I would prefer for it to be an aura that starts off really powerful, but dropping off as your allies become weaker. I might have misinterpreted something so feel free to try and change my opinion on this skills. As it stands, this is the weakest part of your skillset and mehh to me.

Sanctuary Stone: This is quite possibly one of the most innovative skills I’ve seen on this forum so massive props to you for thinking of this. The problem with this is that it doesn’t scale at all and has no effect against nukers which is a pity because of their dominance in higher levels of play. Aghanim’s effect is nice because of the significant reduction in CD and the extra effect. Concept is awesome, numbers are not. Perhaps make the strength and damage absorbed proportionate to how tank Goliath is? This will make enemies want to focus fire him more before he gets too tank and drops a stone that renders his team almost impervious to damage.

The flaws with this skill though is:
• It doesn’t scale
• No protection against magical / true damage (mainly magical because pure is pretty rare)
• Any type of physical AoE damage will quickly negate its power. Although now that I think about it, there’s none of those around.

Overall: A new hero designed to draw focus fire would be extremely welcome. I wouldn’t play him myself but I would draft him if his ultimate was tweaked slightly. The skills synergise well even if I disagree with some of the points in execution. Message me if I’ve missed or misinterpreted anything. Props to the strong foundation that you’ve built for Goliath and good luck with him =)

[L0veTraXeX4Ev3r]

I like this hero. especially the 3rd skill.

[NHP54]

Originally Posted by eddehhh

This is a long, long overdue review so I apologize for that. I’ll say first off that I’m not a great fan of supportive heroes so my views are going to be pretty slanted and biased as I prefer heroes that are primarily offensive.

Basics: Everything looks fine although low stats usually indicate a powerful skillset. Massive starting HP and armour might be overpowering but that’s somewhat negated by piss poor starting MS.

Skillset
Rampart Rush: His initiation spell is good but I think it will still be fairly hard to place unless you’re at pointblank range. Its use is also limited because of its linear fashion and the skill is rendered useless if Goliath is stunned. If his role is to tank and enter combat first to draw focus fire, this is a pretty severe limitation. Short range, unable to pass terrain, prone to disable. Just something I think you should take a look at. The other values are fine. Tooltip is also detailed which I like although I didn’t find any mention of how fast the knockback takes place. It could be 300 units over 5 seconds or 300 units over 0.1 I dunno, but it would be nice if you added into the notes section =)

Lifeline: This is a pretty interesting spell as it looks like this will be the primary reason that Goliath will be able to draw fire. You’ve mentioned a “rescue” effect in the tooltip, I’m not sure what that entails =S I don’t have much to say about this skill, it serves its function well and numbers aren’t glaringly imba. 25% hurts but it is physical damage so it works out in the end. The heal is the icing on top of the cake and a nice added effect.

Bodyguard: For an effect that kicks in at 40% or upon death, it isn’t all that powerful. I think I would prefer for it to be an aura that starts off really powerful, but dropping off as your allies become weaker. I might have misinterpreted something so feel free to try and change my opinion on this skills. As it stands, this is the weakest part of your skillset and mehh to me.

Sanctuary Stone: This is quite possibly one of the most innovative skills I’ve seen on this forum so massive props to you for thinking of this. The problem with this is that it doesn’t scale at all and has no effect against nukers which is a pity because of their dominance in higher levels of play. Aghanim’s effect is nice because of the significant reduction in CD and the extra effect. Concept is awesome, numbers are not. Perhaps make the strength and damage absorbed proportionate to how tank Goliath is? This will make enemies want to focus fire him more before he gets too tank and drops a stone that renders his team almost impervious to damage.

The flaws with this skill though is:
• It doesn’t scale
• No protection against magical / true damage (mainly magical because pure is pretty rare)
• Any type of physical AoE damage will quickly negate its power. Although now that I think about it, there’s none of those around.

Overall: A new hero designed to draw focus fire would be extremely welcome. I wouldn’t play him myself but I would draft him if his ultimate was tweaked slightly. The skills synergise well even if I disagree with some of the points in execution. Message me if I’ve missed or misinterpreted anything. Props to the strong foundation that you’ve built for Goliath and good luck with him =)

Thanks for the input. I have been planning on updating this suggestion a bit for quite some time, but I never got around to it.

[rebirth90]

the hero seems impressive at first sight so let me dig deeper.
first spell : i like the charge thing seems a lot like this guys first skill (http://www.playdota.com/forums/20629...cient-mammoth/) without the armor reduction
i like the most the "- Goliath will go through allies while lunging forward." its like magnus charge + free phase boots
T-up on this one
second spell : seems like ezalor's nuke without the damage being transmitted to creeps. again the armor reduction (its his signature as i can see)
the good part of this skill is that you can heal aliied heroes (T-up for this one)
i think if you wrote that it can dmg and heal ( if the projectile collided with both allied and enemy heroes; heals - allied & damages enemies = OP)
i like this spell only for the heal because the damaging part seems blunt ,un-original;
third spell : this is OP in my opinion because (- Goliath and allies can have Defender buffs indefinitely, but only as long as the ally heroes within range have low enough HP and do not die. )
this passive is too much because if i were you i would go only with hp and armor gain ,ms gain doesn't synergise with the other 2.
I understand why you'd use ms gain at the first skil but why with passive?
last skill : from what i can understand from this skill it's a free pipe for physical damage ,up to 1000?
the rescue bla bla is a shallow grave no?
well this is a great shield if you would play against dps- like troll void sniper syllabear etc?
well the only thing i dont like is "Conjures a magical stone" ...very un-original
this is like tombstone...
leaving this behind T-up on the concept. keep the good work

[Mystique-]

Lifeline:

• With the revamp of this skill, I think the name Lifeline is not suitable; especially since it harms enemies now!
• I think the skill's effects should be more consistent. That is to say, the amount of heal provided to allies should be equivalent to the amount of damage dealt to enemies. The armor is already consistent for both, so that's fine as it is. With regards to damage, I think it should scale 150/200/250/300 for both heal/damage. It's not only consistent that way, but it's balanced as well.
• I think this spell is a great addition to Goliath's arsenal. Definitely makes him more versatile and offensively useful. But now, he is much less of the supporting hero that you initially envisioned. Not that that is a bad thing of course; just observing!

Sanctuary Stone:

• When the heroes come back with 25% of their max HP, will their spells be refreshed or remain in the state they were before the fatal blow stuck them?
• I liked the negative-buff removing cleansing burst better - I feel the cleansing burst is much more creative and balanced.

[NHP54]

Originally Posted by rebirth90

the hero seems impressive at first sight so let me dig deeper.
first spell : i like the charge thing seems a lot like this guys first skill (http://www.playdota.com/forums/20629...cient-mammoth/) without the armor reduction
i like the most the "- Goliath will go through allies while lunging forward." its like magnus charge + free phase boots
T-up on this one
second spell : seems like ezalor's nuke without the damage being transmitted to creeps. again the armor reduction (its his signature as i can see)
the good part of this skill is that you can heal aliied heroes (T-up for this one)
i think if you wrote that it can dmg and heal ( if the projectile collided with both allied and enemy heroes; heals - allied & damages enemies = OP)
i like this spell only for the heal because the damaging part seems blunt ,un-original;
third spell : this is OP in my opinion because (- Goliath and allies can have Defender buffs indefinitely, but only as long as the ally heroes within range have low enough HP and do not die. )
this passive is too much because if i were you i would go only with hp and armor gain ,ms gain doesn't synergise with the other 2.
I understand why you'd use ms gain at the first skil but why with passive?
last skill : from what i can understand from this skill it's a free pipe for physical damage ,up to 1000?
the rescue bla bla is a shallow grave no?
well this is a great shield if you would play against dps- like troll void sniper syllabear etc?
well the only thing i dont like is "Conjures a magical stone" ...very un-original
this is like tombstone...
leaving this behind T-up on the concept. keep the good work

Well, it's not like Goliath is going to build the stone right in front of everyone. But regardless, thanks for the input.

Originally Posted by Mystique-

Lifeline:

• With the revamp of this skill, I think the name Lifeline is not suitable; especially since it harms enemies now!
• I think the skill's effects should be more consistent. That is to say, the amount of heal provided to allies should be equivalent to the amount of damage dealt to enemies. The armor is already consistent for both, so that's fine as it is. With regards to damage, I think it should scale 150/200/250/300 for both heal/damage. It's not only consistent that way, but it's balanced as well.
• I think this spell is a great addition to Goliath's arsenal. Definitely makes him more versatile and offensively useful. But now, he is much less of the supporting hero that you initially envisioned. Not that that is a bad thing of course; just observing!

Sanctuary Stone:

• When the heroes come back with 25% of their max HP, will their spells be refreshed or remain in the state they were before the fatal blow stuck them?
• I liked the negative-buff removing cleansing burst better - I feel the cleansing burst is much more creative and balanced.

- I am still playing around with the Lifeline change. I am definitely not a fan of misnomers, so I will try to figure something out. You could also perceive the Lifeline being a force that is intended for allies, so it has a backlash effect when a foe gets in the energy's way.
- Another possibility would be to have the skill be the opposite effect of Clockwerk's rocket, meaning it would heal allies instead of hurting enemies.
- I will clarify the rescue effect better - basically, when an ally hero is supposed to die, they will just have an instant heal that boosts HP back up to 25% of their max HP, so they do not actually die yet.
- I could always move the old cleansing burst concept to another area, like Lifeline, because I felt keeping the cleansing burst would be stacking the effects by too much.

[JakiroONeal]

Hmm i liked the concept lets see the skills

1°- Hm, this skill is fine, but goliath stop if he reaches a cliff? or he continues?

2°- Fine too, for its cd, its a good skill for helping and also nuking someone, but do this damage hits only 1 hero or is like Wall Of Replica, that do the effect with every hero that passes by it?

3°-Cool passive, but it lasts for how much time?

4°- Nice defensive ultimate, i like it

Ur hero is nice, a support tanker is something really nice

[NHP54]

Originally Posted by JakiroONeal

Hmm i liked the concept lets see the skills

1°- Hm, this skill is fine, but goliath stop if he reaches a cliff? or he continues?

2°- Fine too, for its cd, its a good skill for helping and also nuking someone, but do this damage hits only 1 hero or is like Wall Of Replica, that do the effect with every hero that passes by it?

3°-Cool passive, but it lasts for how much time?

4°- Nice defensive ultimate, i like it

Ur hero is nice, a support tanker is something really nice

- Goliath goes over cliffs, though I am on the fence about whether this is completely fair.
- At the moment, the energy keeps going until it reaches its maximum distance or hits a hero.
- The first part of the passive can last indefinitely, technically, while the second portion of the passive has a set duration.

[DudeFromHell]

Damn man if this hero gets excepted into some of the other patches to be playable... i would diffinitely, try this hero out.... cus i like more spell resistance and nuke w/ armor heals because it comes in handy when your in a 3 or 4v5 gank.... man i gotta tell you ur looking at a mean son of bitch tank vs a tower....
problem is that im worried if it can do well in a 1v1 or get away while ur losing a 1v1?
Out of all this char looks beast..

[dreamcatcher0]

i think this is a good hero suggestion. I like your 1st and 3rd skill.

I also think that you should increase the mana cost and CD/Duration a little more. Because if you cast lifeline to you ally for 12 seconds, then the cd is 12 also, wow.... it is really unstoppable.

[NHP54]

I am open for some Lifeline suggestions.

[BiLLiO333]

love the new concept of lifeline (life essence or something rather? since it deals dmg as well) but the numbers need some serious tweaks. take magnus's wave in comparision, 90 mana for a 300 dmg nuke i believe. this has the same cost/dmg but with the added effect of armor reduction/buff. and not to mention the fact that it can be used dually defensive or offensive, and the range... oh man. this puts mags wave to shame by a LONG shot. roughly 900 units longer.

[NHP54]

Sanctuary Stone has been further tweaked. The main change is the stone now reduces the base damage of enemy heroes within the AoE, because after all, the stone creates a makeshift sanctuary - bad things are supposed to stay out.