[Remake] Alchemist's Unstable Concoction

[Repeats]

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CHANGE LOG

08/20/2009
• Added the subskill Release
• Decreased the casting range
• Added a 1 second casting time
• Added a cosmetic of shaking
• Added an item clause

08/21/2009
• Cleaned up the post a bit
• Changed the cosmetic to Layana's Refraction animation due to simplicity

08/30/2009
• Increased the mana cost per level

11/14/2009
• Removed Casting Time and added a slow effect instead
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The Problem:
Alchemist is a mediocre if not slacking hero at best that needs to be super farmed to have a significant impact other then relying on your allies to finish them off for you. His biggest problem is his nuke makes him channel allowing his enemies to easily run away, which is a big problem because even if you do finish them off, Alchemist doesn't gain any experience.

This remake of Unstable Concoction won't change the basic framework, but allow Alchemist to be more menueverable and dangerous on the battlefield.

Current Form:

Level 1 - Channels up to 2 seconds dealing 60x(channel time) damage and stunning 1x(channel time) seconds.
Level 2 - Channels up to 3 seconds dealing 60x(channel time) damage and stunning 1x(channel time) seconds.
Level 3 - Channels up to 4 seconds dealing 60x(channel time) damage and stunning 1x(channel time) seconds.
Level 4 - Channels up to 5 seconds dealing 60x(channel time) damage and stunning 1x(channel time) seconds.

Cast Range - 650/750/850/950
Mana Cost - 75 All Levels
Cooldown - 16 All Levels

Suggestion:

The Alchemist takes some time to prepare a paralyzing concoction that he can throw at his foes. Even while running, he still has pinpoint accuracy.

Level 1 - Shakes up a concoction for up to 2 seconds dealing 60x(channel time) damage and stunning 1x(channel time) seconds. Reduces Move Speed by 20%.
Level 2 - Shakes up a concoction for up to 3 seconds dealing 60x(channel time) damage and stunning 1x(channel time) seconds. Reduces Move Speed by 20%.
Level 3 - Shakes up a concoction for up to 4 seconds dealing 60x(channel time) damage and stunning 1x(channel time) seconds. Reduces Move Speed by 20%.
Level 4 - Shakes up a concoction for up to 5 seconds dealing 60x(channel time) damage and stunning 1x(channel time) seconds. Reduces Move Speed by 20%.

The Alchemist can't attack or cast other spells while shaking up his potion, but can move during the duration. Also, the Alchemist can use items that don't cancel channels during the duration.

Cast Range - 600/650/700/750
Mana Cost - 75/85/95/105
Cooldown - 16 Seconds All Levels

Cosmetic:
Upon casting, the Alchemist can have a simple cosmetic of the Refraction from Layana to show that he is charging it up.

What this remake changes:
Technically, the only thing this remake changes is that Alchemist can now run after the person he is going to stun, making it easier to use his combo of Acid Spray and Chemical Rage. It also will allow Alchemist to gain experience when casting this instead of sitting back channeling. This is probably the most agrivating part of the current Alchemist's nuke. Vise versa, Alchemist can now run away from a hero or gank while shaking his potion and gain better escape capabilities.

By having the Release subskill, users can stop the shaking to be more strategic with timing as people already do, so that aspect of concontion doesn't change.

Also, I increased the mana cost by 10 per level as this buff is pretty significant. The cast range was also nerfed considerably due to the increase the buff. The cooldown remains the same to continue to be a great lane abuse nuke early game.

[fan.god]

great buff. give him more utility. however I 'd like a 1-sec casting time all lvl.
t-up

[GetTriggerUnit-]

Instead of stop, add an ability like "Launch" that you cast.

[Zirath]

You should actually make it add a new command button in place of Concoction that lets you disable the channel like Ezalor's Illuminate.

EDIT: NOOO. GetTrigger beat me to it T_T.

[NoThlnG]

A great buff. I guess you should nerf the other side as well..

[bluntsmoke13]

he should at least be slowed while channeling a 5 sec stun that can be casted from fog

[chadpiety123]

@NotHinG
but Alche isn't really best hero of the year material. He deserves the buff.

But to balance things out, maybe you could add a minor slow (to Alche) as well, but that's really up to you

[Baconnaise]

Imba usage haha but alch is a tub of crap anyways. If you wanna buff alch give him more stat gains PLOX

[Repeats]

fan.god:
I'll consider something as a more downside to the buff. Thanks for the comment.

GetTriggerUnit- + Zirath:
I also thought of adding a subskill myself. I honestly didn't know that Ezalor already had a subskill to cancel his Illuminate so I guess it is possible?

NoThlnG:
Since several of you think that it needs a downside I will think of one. A 1 second casting time may be the thing.

bluntsmoke13:
I disagree with slow being the downside however. If a unit run back behind a tower, it is still just as useless as it was before. I mean there are limitations to how this will effect game play and im quite sure that tower diving isn't one of them.

Baconnaise:
We are not in the balance forum, so please don't treat us we are.

[thoby123]

concept-wise its quite good, though definitely will need balancing/play-testing. perhaps a lower castrange + make it obvious he's shaking?

[Redeemed A.I.]

At the beggining I was like "huh?isn't this already like this?" and then I was like "ROFLCATS"
I'm not sure if he should walk while casting concotion, because I find -1 second casting time (for same ammount of stun duration) a lot more viable.I want to be able to attack my enemy and I really want myself NOT worthless in the battlefield,especially early levels where I don't have items..

null vote for now.

P.S. Can you cast items while shaking da potion?

[Repeats]

I have updated the post. Please refer to the change log for any changes.

Review Responses

thoby123:
I believe you are right with lowering the cast range. I also added a cosmetic because it would be unfair to opponents that they dont know hes charging.

Kasad:
Having the mobility that this remake offers is hardly considered being useless. And with having the newly added subskill, you can stop the shake at any point being allowed to attack just as if were channeling anyway. His current form does leave him completely useless and standed while channeling personally.

And thanks for the item issue. Ive added a clause into the spell. Thanks for the review

[Redeemed A.I.]

Nice.Also what kind of animation/effect are you going to give while he is shaking?I don't think Alche has a moving shaking animation,so something that seems like a concotion being channeled is nessecary (even lanaya's refraction got a lightning effect because anyone should check her buff status)

[Unnamed_]

Give credit to the one who posted this on DA, as it is a ripoff.

[Repeats]

Originally Posted by Unnamed_

Give credit to the one who posted this on DA, as it is a ripoff.

Sorry but I actually thought of this by myself along with every bit of extra detail. I didn't know anyone else would think of the same buff nor do I really care who else thought of this anyway. The point is that I am coming up with with a decent way to balance it on my own.

Also, if you really think I ripped someone off then post a link...

[Shanx]

A nice idea, T-UP.

However as quite a few people have suggested, instead of alche getting full MS during the channel, give him like 30-50% slow while chanelling. We could also make him attack with a significantly lower AS, like -100% or something. The attacking part is debateable.

Also, instead of Launch, u can rename it Release, since both can have the hotkey "E"
(Unstabl(e) Concoction | R(e)lease)

@Baconnaise: I sould disagree on Alche being a Tub of Crap. He has good synergy with many heroes, like Yurnero, ES, Crix, Morty, Lycan and his wolves, Enigma and summons, Rexxar ans summons...

Consider this example, Starting from lvl 1, the minute the lane creeps touch, chanel his stun, then u get a decent 2-3-4 sec disable to get 2-3 lat hit and denies. Added with goblins greed, thats easy money. Rage + Hyperstone + Vlads = Badass DPS Tank

[Redeemed A.I.]

Originally Posted by shanxbeast

A nice idea, T-UP.

However as quite a few people have suggested, instead of alche getting full MS during the channel, give him like 30-50% slow while chanelling. We could also make him attack with a significantly lower AS, like -100% or something. The attacking part is debateable.

Also, instead of Launch, u can rename it Release, since both can have the hotkey "E"
(Unstabl(e) Concoction | R(e)lease)

@Baconnaise: I sould disagree on Alche being a Tub of Crap. He has good synergy with many heroes, like Yurnero, ES, Crix, Morty, Lycan and his wolves, Enigma and summons, Rexxar ans summons...

Consider this example, Starting from lvl 1, the minute the lane creeps touch, chanel his stun, then u get a decent 2-3-4 sec disable to get 2-3 lat hit and denies. Added with goblins greed, thats easy money. Rage + Hyperstone + Vlads = Badass DPS Tank

I disagree with everthing here.First,the damage/ms reduction nullifies the buff we are suggesting and I wouldn't like an alchemist hitting me while he is preparing a devastating 5 sec stun.
Secondly Alchemist IS a crap hero,because the only way you can play him is Heart+Cuirass+Blademail because and when someone is made to carry and can't support,he is doomed in the forced synergy limbo.

Hyperstone+Vlads?That item build is totally horrible,you don't need the pitiful regen of vlads,nor the further IAS of hyperstone,you need to boost your crap survivability after ultimate and the fact that you MUST finish off your enemy before rage wears off.

I still believe Alchemist's GG problems would dissapear if only the max shaking time was buffed -1 second.So 1 channeling sec==2 sec stun/ 2 == 3 seconds stun and so on.

[Unnamed_]

Originally Posted by Repeats

Sorry but I actually thought of this by myself along with every bit of extra detail. I didn't know anyone else would think of the same buff nor do I really care who else thought of this anyway. The point is that I am coming up with with a decent way to balance it on my own.

Also, if you really think I ripped someone off then post a link...

[Skill]Alchemist's Unstable Concoction while in Chemical Rage - DotA Allstars Discussion

I see the difference as in the old topic only allowed for him to channel UC and move while in ultimate.Otherwise the concept is the same.

[Bovver]

I really like it, surely t-up

[IAmTheSpoon]

Awesome. T-up.
You should make ALL the changes in red. I didn't notice the range/mana cost nerf.
Also, I don't think there is a running + casting animation type of cosmetic.

Um. Rate my primal split remake =3