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Old 03-05-2010, 06:25 PM   #1
N00BKILLER12345
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Default The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66b+)


ok so as we all know Phantom Lancer is in the top most picked heroes currently in 6.66b. something needs to be done so he can stop becoming picked all the time. i propose a list of slight nerfs that aim towards his 2 most op moves: spirit lance, and juxtapose.

nerf one - remove the slow after spirit lance.

nerf two - increase the cooldown for generating image.

nerf three - decrease the duration of image.

nerf four - increase the %damage image take from 400 to 600.


vote & discuss which one would be the best nerf.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:25 PM   #2
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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Wtf. Make a poll man.

T-Up for all nerfs.

Edit: My respect for you has increased.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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Why not just remove those two imba skills, that'll balance him out.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:30 PM   #4
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakusuine View Post
Why not just remove those two imba skills, that'll balance him out.
Yeah. Even after that he's the best pusher and image carry ever.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:33 PM   #5
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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Yah, just the fact that his images (which he can't have anymore due to absence of juxtapose and of course Manta Style should be banned for PL, for same obvious reasons as QB is for Kunkka, the item is just so imba with PL ffs) can create their own images makes this hero broken beyond belief.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakusuine View Post
Yah, just the fact that his images (which he can't have anymore due to absence of juxtapose and of course Manta Style should be banned for PL, for same obvious reasons as QB is for Kunkka, the item is just so imba with PL ffs) can create their own images makes this hero broken beyond belief.
His ultimate is the best passive ever. MR and images and images of images? Orly?
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:36 PM   #7
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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I honestly think the most annoying this about PL is the fact that all his images get the radiance burn, I know it doesnt stack but he can straight up tp out, and continue pushing with his images with a stupid amount of ease, obviously you cant make radiance not effect his images, but I think lowering their duration / increasing damage taken would do the trick. That way the real PL would have to actually be there to push.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:37 PM   #8
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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@above: All this and more would be fixed by removing Juxtapose and banning Manta Style on him. I so don't know why this isn't fixed yet, the hero is so stupidly overpowered that it makes me want to hurt people.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakusuine View Post
@above: All this and more would be fixed by removing Juxtapose and banning Manta Style on him. I so don't know why this isn't fixed yet, the hero is so stupidly overpowered that it makes me want to hurt people.
With Phantom Lancer?
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:39 PM   #10
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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Lol, I dont like the idea of banning items on heroes. It annoys the hell out of my that you cant use dagger on vs and pudge, because its possible to be a complete tool with it (even so it should be punishment for not carrying tp).

Juxtapose conceptually is fine, it is an passive ultimate after all. It's just the images stats and duration that make it horribly annoying.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:40 PM   #11
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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With hurting I meant removing genitalia and with people I meant Icefrog.
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:44 PM   #12
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godzbane View Post
With Phantom Lancer?
Oh! MAN! You are on fire today! I cant stop laughing
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:47 PM   #13
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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Why not just make the lance damage like mortreds dagger but ofcourse not pure type damage but instead increase manacost to 150 make cooldown 40 seconds and give maxed level damage around 120-150! yea that would be perfect!!

Trolling here..
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Old 03-05-2010, 06:59 PM   #14
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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I am 100% serious about nerfing Phantom Lancer.

He is for sure most strong hero in game.

People complain Slardar imbalance. I think Phantom Lancer 10x more imbalance.
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Old 03-05-2010, 07:04 PM   #15
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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This thread is win.

I suggest two slight nerfs:

Affiliation: Sentinel -> Neutral (so in non-ap[em] games scourge can pick him too)
Damage: 45 - 67 -> 44 - 68 (this will seriously ruin his lasthitting)
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Old 03-05-2010, 07:12 PM   #16
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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Is this thread serious ? I didnt follow threads recently so I dont know if PL is the current joke hero or not but do you guys really think he needs nerfs ?
There are so much counters ... well I think i'll wait for an answer.
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Old 03-05-2010, 07:17 PM   #17
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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Quote:
ok so as we all know Phantom Lancer is in the top most picked heroes currently in 6.66b.
When did this happen....

Anyway, no to all. He is uber-weak early game, weak at mid game, strong at late game. That balances things out.
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Old 03-05-2010, 07:29 PM   #18
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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I think the balance of dota is only valid for the early and middle part of the game, where if a game is dragged, the term 'balanced' is not applicable anymore, and timing plays crucial role on which team is gonna get QQed.

It is a known fact that you'll die in 3.5 sec after the game is past 50min mark, where its all about who disable who 1st, who got the best timing for magic immunity, etc....

if pl images are imba late game,
what about bf splash stacking and goes through armor+evasion?
Ive seen countless times kk/rk/magnus rip through a whole team in pubs

imbaness during late game is inevitable due to high tier items
and pubs just complaints about it cos they dont have the coordination to handle something imba
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Old 03-05-2010, 07:32 PM   #19
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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Buy some dust.
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Old 03-05-2010, 07:43 PM   #20
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cp6uja_ View Post
When did this happen....

Anyway, no to all. He is uber-weak early game, weak at mid game, strong at late game. That balances things out.
He's not that uber-weak early game, he has a nuke that slows, ence making ganks to his lane having higher chance of sucess, has an escape mechanism (altough nobody in their right mind is gonna gank a pl without an anti-invi shit, unless they chain stun him). I think hes a perfect carry, plus to all the people saying that hes omfgipwnyouall at late game, for example a magnus thats equally farmed can blink in ult, and wipeout the images in 2 hits, or even when hes pushing he can just hit the enemy creeps and the images just die.
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Old 03-05-2010, 08:47 PM   #21
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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Best way to nerf PL is to ban KOTL.
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Old 03-05-2010, 08:54 PM   #22
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PL isn't imba lol.
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:01 PM   #23
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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Is this a joke? He is well balanced. I can't remember a game where PL owned hard. I can't even remember a game where he owned at all. There are LOADS of counters to him.
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:15 PM   #24
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aoe rapes this guy. late game tinker with shiva, manta and guinso owns lancer so bandly it's just sad. don't let lancer farm up early Radiance and pick some aoe nukes againts him like shaker.
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:22 PM   #25
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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he is fine. Just counter pick aoe.
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:31 PM   #26
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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Dust holds the answer. Just target him with a few well placed nukes and he is dead.

If he goes for pushing power then he will sacrifice for HP items. If instead he goes for HP items then he will lack pushing power and will not be a problem.

He is well balanced in my opinion. Really squishy early game and then a powerhouse in late game.
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:32 PM   #27
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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replace his lance with quills so it will be harder for him to ks early game and become omgwtfmonster later
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:34 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pa1nfuldeath View Post
replace his lance with quills so it will be harder for him to ks early game and become omgwtfmonster later
Azwraith, The Phantom QuillShooter.

Has a certain... zing... to it

Edit- OoOoOoOoOhhhh Lookie here -

GosuGamers DotA | Replay: Zuki vs Fear

PL lost. Then, next game, the winners from THAT game played PL/KOTL aaaand...

GosuGamers DotA | Replay: Zuki vs Fear

LOST. PL isn't imba.

Thread can be closed now.
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:41 PM   #29
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azboar sounds better imo, also ice can buff his juxtapose by giving it a chance to spawn a pink pig on each attack but it would be too op
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:46 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N00BKILLER12345 View Post
I am 100% serious about nerfing Phantom Lancer.

He is for sure most strong hero in game.

People complain Slardar imbalance. I think Phantom Lancer 10x more imbalance.
This is because you play -apem pubs where everyone is an agi DPS-carry. Obviously PL is going to dominate you. Learn to pick heroes with AoE damage. And godzbane, stop trolling please.

PL is a bit overpowered, but he needs a few slight nerfs, not to be dominated into shit-tier like you pros are suggesting. Btw manta style on PL isn't even core.
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Old 03-05-2010, 09:51 PM   #31
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i say scrap all his abilities, and add attribute bonuses instead, he will still be the best image carry around
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Old 03-05-2010, 10:17 PM   #32
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It's not the fighting its the pushing you dumb europeans
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Old 03-05-2010, 10:20 PM   #33
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Default Re: The nerf Phantom Lancer discussion thread(6.66
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You wanna know my opinion? He is freaking fine. He is a rather strong carry, yeah, but he is easy to keep in check. Make a statistics of the total number of games lancer plays competitively and the total number of games he wins, I bet his winrate is below 40 %.
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Old 03-05-2010, 10:42 PM   #34
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Quote:
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It's not the fighting its the pushing you dumb europeans
Reduce image duration and durability ---> PL balanced
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Old 03-05-2010, 10:54 PM   #35
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I think radiance on images hitting 40dmg/sec is pretty imbalanced considering the image duration. Make images deal 20/sec? or lower the duration of the images. He is pretty bad early game so i don't think he is THAT strong. -apem on the other hand, GG
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:06 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by mfaa View Post
I think radiance on images hitting 40dmg/sec is pretty imbalanced considering the image duration. Make images deal 20/sec? or lower the duration of the images. He is pretty bad early game so i don't think he is THAT strong. -apem on the other hand, GG
Dude, they're IMAGES. They die in 3 hits... GO kill them, stop being lazy. That, and if he does Radi rush, it means for ~18 mins, he is going to be an EASY gank, which happens to make that Radi rush take EVEN longer. Stop whining, start buying DUST.
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:10 PM   #37
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Yes OFC Manta is what makes PL so stronk.
I can agree PL needs a nerf, I'd nerf duration of images and maybe increase 400% damage taken to 500% or something like that.
Don't hit him to hard with nerfs though..
Don't remove anything from Lance or Stats or anything.
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:27 PM   #38
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I agree with the removal of radiance burn on images. My main nerf to him would be to remove the slow from his Spirit Lance. It simply doesn't need it. It has some nice damage, and it creates and image, which early really hurts, and late, that image can create more images and they will probably all mana burn you since most PL's buy a diffusal. So I would just remove the slow.

Alternative: If people think removing the slow would make him weak which I don't think is true, then how about this

-When PL casts his spirit lance he is ported to the target the lance hits. So no slow but he is brought right next to them. This would help him in some sense but it would also hurt him early because he would have to put himself in harm's way instead of letting an image do the work. Despite what people say, his early game is surprisingly good for a late game carry.
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:38 PM   #39
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Westerners think Phantom Lancer is fine. Asians know that Phantom Lancer is most strong hero in game.

He carry harder than anyone. You say AOE counter him but you spend whole team taking care of his image PL teammates and real PL will beat you.
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:48 PM   #40
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I dont get it. PL has always been mediocre at best? At least in decent games.
But when i last even heard about him...his build was still purge-Manta...
How is he gonna get Radiance anyway?
What is actually his Item- and Skillbuild (CORE?).
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