Phaseboots - do they need a buff?

Chris_ · 03-07-2010, 10:14 PM

phaseboots

the boots of what kind of heros?
i rarely miss phaseboots in competitive dota nowadays.

I really dont know what kind of heros phaseboots are usefull.
Yes i know there are some that can go for pbs (like kunkka) but i really dont like to see that powertreads are "abused" because they give 10str for cheap gold.
supporter go for powertreads because they need some str aswell as some carries go for powertreads because of str + attack speed.

Phaseboots? boots for what kind of heros?
my suggestion would be to remake them to boots for real ganger (like sandking, venge, etc)
what do they need for it?
i think they just need to be very cheap.
At the moment phaseboots and powertreads are equally expensive.
so supporter and ganger prefer powertreads (because of the 10str)
would phaseboots cost ~1000 gold they would be used much more often.

what do u think?

1nF · 03-08-2010, 11:14 PM

Give them armour back. Of course not as much as it was, but at least some 3-4 armour points would be a nice buff. Obviously, Phase Boots are far less appreciated then other boots since the armour nerf, forcing fragile supports to waste all that 25% IAS from str treads to increase their survivorability. I consider PB nerf a huge indirect nerf to all fragile supports and gankers.

gh0un · 03-09-2010, 12:02 AM

Id say give it 2-3 armor.

CaptainPlatypus · 03-09-2010, 12:53 AM

Jesus christ, no they don't need a buff. They give +24 damage for 1500 gold - even ignoring the speed and Phase, that's more efficient gold/damage (62.5 vs 67) than Battlefury, making them the second most efficient source of direct (non-ability based, otherwise activated Armlet passes them) damage in the game to Divine Rapier (25). Yeah, strength treads are hugely efficient sources of health, and the ability to switch to intelligence for extra mana in a pinch is insanely nice (when you remember you have it), but that has more to do with treads being incredibly good than phase boots being bad. Besides, have you forgotten the reason phase boots don't give armor any more? It made the game boring.

Phase boots aren't for every hero, or every player, but buffing them to make them more common would give the heroes (and players) who do use them well an unjustifiable advantage.

badmafa · 03-09-2010, 02:31 AM

they need no buff.

ALEXALEX303 · 03-09-2010, 02:55 AM

I always get phase boots on all kind of heroes but it always helps while your enemy is juking his own creeps i just go straight and kill him.
So t-up buff them up! Maybe more damage?

adrianehm · 03-09-2010, 05:51 AM

I don't think armor is the way to go, since they were removed specifically because casters got too tanky. I would rather buff what it is supposed to give: movespeed. Increase its ms to +75 and 15%.

Right now, almost 70% of all boots are PTs while the bulk of the remainder goes to BoT. PB is hardy ever gotten. Give it a niche and stick to it.

†André† · 03-09-2010, 06:15 AM

yeah... pb are way underused... almost like basher... maybe move speed buff

zaphodbrx99 · 03-09-2010, 06:49 AM

I think most people forget that phase boots are primarily for the phase ability.

Everything else is secondary.

I would like to see it buffed like:

Current phase boots: same recipe, PERMANENT phase, active gives +ms

Or:

Phase boots = boots of speed + 200 gold recipe, gives ms and phase but nothing else.

standardcombo · 03-09-2010, 10:24 AM

For the recipe:

Boots of Speed
Ring of Regeneration
Sobi Mask

The effect would no longer grant damage. Instead HP and MP regen are the bonuses on top of the Phase effect.

This way, it would have a niche very much different than Threads, and build up quite nicely.

aieren · 03-09-2010, 10:36 AM

No need for the buff. +24 damage and the extra phase ability is reasonable for its price comparing it to Power Treads.

Anti-Xenophobe · 03-09-2010, 10:51 AM

Perhaps instead of Chainmail, put RoB inside the recipe, giving it less armor but making it an aura (more mana regen too). It would fit much better on those support heroes.

Gheizen64 · 03-09-2010, 10:52 AM

As far as simple numbers go, PB are severely underused. There's one PB every 7/8 PT and every ~2 BoT in competitive games. Sigh. The problem of phase is that it give just damage bonus. They look good on paper, but raw damage is about as bad as you can get. No one get Radiance just for the damage, they get it for the sparkle. No one get Bfury just for the damage, they get it for the good buildup + regen. I could go on forever. Raw damage items are underpowered, and underpowered they'll always be.

There are two keys in solving PB problems:

- make it cost less. That way it has less competition with Power treads. Cheaper boots mean also that Supporter are more likely to go for it. The bonus could be everything, from damage + mana regen, to damage + damage block, to only damage (include recipe) etc...
- change PT from +10 str/agi/int to +8 str, +10 agi, +12 int. +10 str is just so much better early game and there's really non competition between the various kind of PT.

EDIT: could we avoid getting faker and 1-poster from posting in here? Freedom of speech is so overrated.

gh0un · 03-09-2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainPlatypus

They give +24 damage for 1500 gold - even ignoring the speed and Phase, that's more efficient gold/damage (62.5 vs 67) than Battlefury, making them the second most efficient source of direct (non-ability based, otherwise activated Armlet passes them) damage in the game to Divine Rapier (25).

Comparing like that is ridiculous.
Branches cost 53 and give +1 to all stats, thus far surpassing any other item in cost efficiency.
Is it now the most efficient source of direct damage (and mana and life on top of that)?
Nope. Item space is also a factor.

But i agree that phase probably doesnt need a buff.

fullday · 03-09-2010, 11:35 AM

See, PB isn't bought by carries as treads are better for DPS. The damage doesn't make sense. I say change PB back to the old one, with armor. Or like standardcombo said, have regeneration components. That way, supporters have cheap boots suitable for them.

standardcombo · 03-09-2010, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti-Xenophobe

Perhaps instead of Chainmail, put RoB inside the recipe, giving it less armor but making it an aura (more mana regen too). It would fit much better on those support heroes.

I love this idea ^^ Then it doesn't make sense for the whole team to get it either. It's brilliant.

1nF · 03-09-2010, 01:27 PM

Actually, to sum up, any change to make them best support footwear is welcome ^_^

doomsheep · 03-09-2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1nF

Actually, to sum up, any change to make them best support footwear is welcome ^_^

no, it's fucking retarded. supports are not meant to upgrade boots to anything else than bot.

clickrush · 03-09-2010, 01:42 PM

phaseboots are commonly used on kunkka, lycan, ursa, troll

i also use them on venge, cm since they often have to catch up fast and need a cheap survival item.

1nF · 03-09-2010, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doomsheep

no, it's fucking retarded. supports are not meant to upgrade boots to anything else than bot.

Disagree here, who needs a BoT support who dies from 2 hits? phase would be a good alternative to BoT and regular boots if they would provide good support-directed benefits. In case they provide some sort of aura as suggested above, supports would be very welcome to upgrade boots to phase. It's just a matter of the extent to how much they would benefit the support hero or even the team after the buff.
Also tell me please why do many venge players upgrade boots to str treads in competitive? They must be fucking retarded according to your post. I am also sure I have seen rylai players upgrade boots to str treads before, and not once.

03-07-2010, 10:14 PM	#1
Chris_ Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 246	Phaseboots - do they need a buff? phaseboots the boots of what kind of heros? i rarely miss phaseboots in competitive dota nowadays. I really dont know what kind of heros phaseboots are usefull. Yes i know there are some that can go for pbs (like kunkka) but i really dont like to see that powertreads are "abused" because they give 10str for cheap gold. supporter go for powertreads because they need some str aswell as some carries go for powertreads because of str + attack speed. Phaseboots? boots for what kind of heros? my suggestion would be to remake them to boots for real ganger (like sandking, venge, etc) what do they need for it? i think they just need to be very cheap. At the moment phaseboots and powertreads are equally expensive. so supporter and ganger prefer powertreads (because of the 10str) would phaseboots cost ~1000 gold they would be used much more often. what do u think?

03-08-2010, 11:14 PM	#2
1nF Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Riga, Latvia Posts: 766	Re: Phaseboots - do they need a buff? Give them armour back. Of course not as much as it was, but at least some 3-4 armour points would be a nice buff. Obviously, Phase Boots are far less appreciated then other boots since the armour nerf, forcing fragile supports to waste all that 25% IAS from str treads to increase their survivorability. I consider PB nerf a huge indirect nerf to all fragile supports and gankers.

03-09-2010, 12:02 AM	#3
gh0un Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Munich Posts: 587	Re: Phaseboots - do they need a buff? Id say give it 2-3 armor.

03-09-2010, 12:53 AM	#4
CaptainPlatypus Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 938 Blog Entries: 1	Re: Phaseboots - do they need a buff? Jesus christ, no they don't need a buff. They give +24 damage for 1500 gold - even ignoring the speed and Phase, that's more efficient gold/damage (62.5 vs 67) than Battlefury, making them the second most efficient source of direct (non-ability based, otherwise activated Armlet passes them) damage in the game to Divine Rapier (25). Yeah, strength treads are hugely efficient sources of health, and the ability to switch to intelligence for extra mana in a pinch is insanely nice (when you remember you have it), but that has more to do with treads being incredibly good than phase boots being bad. Besides, have you forgotten the reason phase boots don't give armor any more? It made the game boring. Phase boots aren't for every hero, or every player, but buffing them to make them more common would give the heroes (and players) who do use them well an unjustifiable advantage. __________________ Please Stuff Counterstompin' Think (and search) before you post. Strategy+ My item suggestion, the Illusory Manteau - check it out! My (draft, still very incomplete) Invoker guide with Val

03-09-2010, 05:51 AM	#7
adrianehm Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 370	Re: Phaseboots - do they need a buff? I don't think armor is the way to go, since they were removed specifically because casters got too tanky. I would rather buff what it is supposed to give: movespeed. Increase its ms to +75 and 15%. Right now, almost 70% of all boots are PTs while the bulk of the remainder goes to BoT. PB is hardy ever gotten. Give it a niche and stick to it.

03-09-2010, 06:15 AM	#8
†André† Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 3,169	Re: Phaseboots - do they need a buff? yeah... pb are way underused... almost like basher... maybe move speed buff __________________ Sig Guides Quote Stay Cool - Dazzle the Shadow Priest (Need Updates) Instilling Paralyzing Fear - Gorgon the Medusa (Spotlighted) How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each pray'r accepted, and each wish resign'd...

03-09-2010, 06:49 AM	#9
zaphodbrx99 Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2,101	Re: Phaseboots - do they need a buff? I think most people forget that phase boots are primarily for the phase ability. Everything else is secondary. I would like to see it buffed like: Current phase boots: same recipe, PERMANENT phase, active gives +ms Or: Phase boots = boots of speed + 200 gold recipe, gives ms and phase but nothing else. __________________ Guide to Banehollow, the Lycanthrope Guide to Vol'jin, the Witch Doctor Gosugamers replay statistics

03-09-2010, 10:24 AM	#10
standardcombo Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 66	Re: Phaseboots - do they need a buff? For the recipe: Boots of Speed Ring of Regeneration Sobi Mask The effect would no longer grant damage. Instead HP and MP regen are the bonuses on top of the Phase effect. This way, it would have a niche very much different than Threads, and build up quite nicely.

03-09-2010, 10:36 AM	#11
aieren Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1	Re: Phaseboots - do they need a buff? No need for the buff. +24 damage and the extra phase ability is reasonable for its price comparing it to Power Treads.

03-09-2010, 10:51 AM	#12
Anti-Xenophobe Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,224	Re: Phaseboots - do they need a buff? Perhaps instead of Chainmail, put RoB inside the recipe, giving it less armor but making it an aura (more mana regen too). It would fit much better on those support heroes.

03-09-2010, 10:52 AM	#13
Gheizen64 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 2,173	Re: Phaseboots - do they need a buff? As far as simple numbers go, PB are severely underused. There's one PB every 7/8 PT and every ~2 BoT in competitive games. Sigh. The problem of phase is that it give just damage bonus. They look good on paper, but raw damage is about as bad as you can get. No one get Radiance just for the damage, they get it for the sparkle. No one get Bfury just for the damage, they get it for the good buildup + regen. I could go on forever. Raw damage items are underpowered, and underpowered they'll always be. There are two keys in solving PB problems: - make it cost less. That way it has less competition with Power treads. Cheaper boots mean also that Supporter are more likely to go for it. The bonus could be everything, from damage + mana regen, to damage + damage block, to only damage (include recipe) etc... - change PT from +10 str/agi/int to +8 str, +10 agi, +12 int. +10 str is just so much better early game and there's really non competition between the various kind of PT. EDIT: could we avoid getting faker and 1-poster from posting in here? Freedom of speech is so overrated. __________________ Analysis of item usage in competitive 6.66, 6.67, 6.68, 6.69 and 6.71. Ongoing. Look my reorganization of the weapon shop for: • Organized shop layout (ala Sena the Accesorizer) • More unique +dmg items (BoA ,Broadswoard & Claymore) • Items and recipes are more logical and intuitive • Hammer is the old Javelin (the %chance fits naturaly in Basher + Mael) • Desolator is now made from swords and more!

03-09-2010, 11:35 AM	#15
fullday Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 35	Re: Phaseboots - do they need a buff? See, PB isn't bought by carries as treads are better for DPS. The damage doesn't make sense. I say change PB back to the old one, with armor. Or like standardcombo said, have regeneration components. That way, supporters have cheap boots suitable for them.

Last edited by fullday; 03-09-2010 at 11:38 AM.

03-09-2010, 01:27 PM	#17
1nF Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Riga, Latvia Posts: 766	Re: Phaseboots - do they need a buff? Actually, to sum up, any change to make them best support footwear is welcome ^_^

03-09-2010, 01:42 PM	#19
clickrush Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 436	Re: Phaseboots - do they need a buff? phaseboots are commonly used on kunkka, lycan, ursa, troll i also use them on venge, cm since they often have to catch up fast and need a cheap survival item. __________________ Dedicated "TrollWarlord" Fan