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Old 04-06-2010, 01:44 PM   #1
nimaattar
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Smile Best items For Dragon Knight


hi , i am really a noobs!
i wanna know which items are good for dragon knight !

and how we can gather them...

thanx for replies. ( waiting... )
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Old 04-06-2010, 01:57 PM   #2
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

read guides and use the SEARCH button.. imo that would help you unless you have a phobia on books.
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:34 PM   #3
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

This is suggestion.suggestion forum is for suggesting/giving ideas.
The best to place it was Game Strategy.
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:35 PM   #4
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

Moved to Game strategy.
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:38 PM   #5
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

Midas if you can have it on you before 7 min

HOTD
Treads
Radi (if good farm, otherwise you might need to just go for AC)
AC/HOT
HOT/AC

Skills:
stun:1

fire:2/3/5/7 against low harass (you want this skilled up early as it is great for taking kills and for farming waves)

blood:4 (take as needed depending on harass, max after fire in most cases)

ult:6,11,16 (ult whenever you want, being ranged for 60/115 seconds is beneficial and you are speedy that way)

DK carries at 16 because frost dragon is just that good, it doesn't really matter what his items are as long as he is worth over 7k

Stack up camps with a dominated creep, you normally farm this with red dragon and then stack again to farm with blue dragon.


Aside: If you are mid solo bottle tends to be good regardless
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Last edited by Kris; 04-06-2010 at 02:47 PM.
Old 04-06-2010, 02:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

Go read some guides about Dragon Knight. As for me, I usually get him a Satanic, BoT, Armlet, Heart, Assault, and the last item is optional. Remember that this is a dream build and usually you won't get time to make it.
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

I advise you to take caution with any guide you read as most of the writers can't competently play the hero in the first place and give misinformation.
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

Armlet is a waste.
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:49 PM   #9
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

The thing about armlet on DK is that you end up hurting yourself more than they can actually hurt you, which is a problem.
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

Whatever you do don't get Battlefury on him. Thanks.
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:57 PM   #11
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

IMO Treads,armlet,bkb
optional: satanic/hot/ac and treads->bot for late game.
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:58 PM   #12
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris View Post
Midas if you can have it on you before 7 min

Stack up camps with a dominated creep, you normally farm this with red dragon and then stack again to farm with blue dragon.


Aside: If you are mid solo bottle tends to be good regardless
Thanks for the enlightenment Kris!

Suddenly reminded me of choke point jungling with a quel and stout, get max dragon's blood and get tail, max fire breath next, ulti whenever possible.
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:59 PM   #13
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

BF ok on him imo in pubs due to mana regen letting you spam fire = moar farm + push + burst damage as it is 12 sec cd.

I admit there ARE better items tho.

Armlet meh.
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:03 PM   #14
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

hi nimitaar.

1. dragon knight has 3 spells which need quite a bit of mana. dragon tail, bof and dragon form (not so much but still...). if you want to fully utilise his spells, you'll need to buy some items that will help you regen mana. possible items include magic stick/wand, ring of bassilius, nulls or voidstone.

2. on the other hand, you can simply opt to conserve your mana for only the crucial times you need to use it, such as during skirmishes, when you're trying to kill someone, in the middle of a team battle (meaning you dont spam your spells). in this case, since you're not spamming your spells all the time, you don't need so much mana. the main thing is to find the perfect balance in items that give you the optimal mana regen suited to your playstyle and the needs of the game

3. dk is normally played as someone who dishes out lots of damage mid-lategame so you need to get items to boost your damage meaning you need attkspeed + damage. power treads is almost always a must cause it gives you v gd attkspeed and some damage. beyond that, you can go for armlet, mkb, radiance or any big damage item if you can farm it.

4. if you find yourself dying to lots of spells, get black king bar for the spell immunity.

5. if you find yourself dying too much and being unable to farm for those expensive items(2k+ items), you can opt to stack sanges. its not ideal but it gives okay-damage and hp.
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Last edited by legod; 04-06-2010 at 03:06 PM.
Old 04-06-2010, 03:04 PM   #15
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

sneaky ninja question: is MoM viable for dragon knight? with his dragon blood and some tanky items seem to be able to compensate the damage debuff while he's spewing the fire/frost breath continuously like a madman.
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:04 PM   #16
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

I should note that the camps you stack are the ancient camp then you kite them if you are not strong enough to tank them. If you stand somewhere between 800 and 1200 from the camp you can normally auto them while taking minimal hits.

Near the 3 way fork in sentinel camp. Near the treeline to the lane in scourge or near the shop trees overlooking rosh.
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:05 PM   #17
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

MOM while it can be effective does the same thing as armlet which is makes you die faster for the same damage you would have done if you lived longer. MOM and Armlet make you more vulnerable to stuns which most people will throw at you during a fight.

Also HOTD and creep stacking is like a free 2k-4k mid lategame which tends to outweigh the benefits of MOM.
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:11 PM   #18
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

BTW ALMOST FORGOT. soul ring ftw. cheap, regen. Don't use the active at all unless he's running and you need mana for that last fire. Which happens ALL the time. Good item.
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:13 PM   #19
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody Knuckles View Post
BTW ALMOST FORGOT. soul ring ftw. cheap, regen. Don't use the active at all unless he's running and you need mana for that last fire. Which happens ALL the time. Good item.
His passive covers the delta on the damage and he can use the mana to farm however it makes one wonder if it is really needed.
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:22 PM   #20
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

mom and armlet ARE VERY DIFFERENT ITEMS. Armlet is FAR MORE viable than mom.

dragon blood makes you tougher but not immune to damage. getting mom just destroys the advantage you get from it which is dumb because now you're no more tankier than any other strength hero, in fact you're less tankier.

mom is only smart on heroes which have a way to circumvent the 30% extra damage taken, like abbadon(borrowed time if you can time it right but even then its tricky), slark (with his ult), faceless (ult renders him invul). with these heroes and their skills, the 30% extra damage taken doesn't matter (as much). for dk it does.

armlet is bad for long chases because thats when the degen hurts but if you don't need to move around much its awesome. and because dragon knight has ranged form +3.25 second stun (and frost attk when he is lvl 16) he doesn't need to move around he can just sit there and pound frost bombs at his opponents (and of course you have your allies to help out). further he has natural regen from dragon blood which means when the battle is over and his hp is low due to armlet use, he can regen it back quickly and not spend time going back to fountain to heal.

so armlet is actually very good for dk, he fully makes use of the 25 str, he needs the attk speed bonus, and its disadvantages (primarily that it sucks for long chases and your hp sucks after you finish using it) are mitigated by dragon knights skills
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Last edited by legod; 04-06-2010 at 03:24 PM.
Old 04-06-2010, 03:22 PM   #21
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris View Post
His passive covers the delta on the damage and he can use the mana to farm however it makes one wonder if it is really needed.
true that, its actually a bit overkill on the mana. if you cant rely on ancients (wards) soul ring is pretty good imo, you can speedfarm a bit with breath and always have mana to be useful in ganks/clashes. used to get a basi for similar results but thats kinda redundant now.
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:25 PM   #22
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

You can always rely on ancients or force the other team into a disadvantageous fight. You farm normal neuts and 2-3 lanes while you let the camp stack up to 4+ times then go kill it when other farm drys up or you are unable to fit any more stacks. (scourge can get like 8+ stacks, sent is limited to around 5-6)
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:29 PM   #23
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

People need to understand that just because blood gives 4hp/sec that does not mean that it remotely counteracts armlets 35hp/sec. Unless your team is: Tide Puck DS Dk Wl people are not going to simpily stand around for you to hit them in a fight and they will stun you netting an extra 70-135 damage on you that is essentially pure.

Armlet excels in doing about two things:

1. running from heroes without Stuns/Dots since you can just tap it for a large Hp boost from time to time
2. auto attacking retards
3. farming neut camps without ever having to go back (even though you can already do this with HOTD)
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:39 PM   #24
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weedle View Post
Whatever you do ,get Battlefury on him. Thanks.
fixed.
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Old 04-06-2010, 03:57 PM   #25
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

HAHAHAHAHAA! Nice one it was soo funny!!!
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Last edited by コクーン; 04-06-2010 at 03:59 PM.
Old 04-06-2010, 03:58 PM   #26
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphodbrx99 View Post
fixed.
lol?

Demon Perce is > BF even on DK since it isn't particuraly hard to rice waves when you just have to hit the ranged creep and the melees a few times then fire everything.

BF was used by a number of DK's back in 52e but it has always been the less efficient more noob friendly DK's item.
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:12 PM   #27
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris View Post
lol?

Demon Perce is > BF even on DK since it isn't particuraly hard to rice waves when you just have to hit the ranged creep and the melees a few times then fire everything.

BF was used by a number of DK's back in 52e but it has always been the less efficient more noob friendly DK's item.
hm and wtf will you make out of perse? DK isn't dusa, he doesn't need linkens. And what will you make out of demon edge? Buriza? Lol.

BF dk is only called noob by those who never tried it. In practice it means that he farms alot more both by cleave and fire spamming, and it also means you get cleave in non ulti form ( did I mention that you shouldn't be using ultimate to farm? )
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:13 PM   #28
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

At level 16, having more attack speed outweighs having more damage IMO. Therefore, items that increase attack speed (ie. midas if before 8-9 minutes, treads) are great items to aim for in early game. You have a passive that provides regen and armor, so you don't need to focus on those items in early/mid game (allowing you to get the attack speed items indicated above). Your dragon form greatly improves your ability to push towers, chase, run away, kill, etc. up until elvel 16, where you should basically be able to help take out two or more heroes on your own in team skirmishes (with your support teammates helping out), while your carry pwns. You are not a hard carry IMO, but will greatly improve your team's chances of winning if you can get some attack speed in early/mid game.
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:13 PM   #29
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

stacking owns
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:18 PM   #30
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphodbrx99 View Post
hm and wtf will you make out of perse? DK isn't dusa, he doesn't need linkens. And what will you make out of demon edge? Buriza? Lol.

BF dk is only called noob by those who never tried it. In practice it means that he farms alot more both by cleave and fire spamming, and it also means you get cleave in non ulti form ( did I mention that you shouldn't be using ultimate to farm? )
In practice i can farm a greater amount with proper ricing and stacking of neut camps. I have played BF DK, it is considerably less effective than my posted build and is primarily effective against noobs. Once you hit 11 you can farm large waves with red dragon + fire so splash is negligible at best and being able to take ancient camps is far more valuable. BF DK pushes out the lane but has spend 4k on mediocre regen and a bit of damage. I would sooner get an orchid on DK or better yet a manta for a similar amount of gold and far more effectiveness.

Red dragon is rather shit in fights TBH so idk why you wouldn't want to use it to farm, it's not like it has a bad CD. Additionally you can always just fire waves twice to farm large pushes or l2lh for normal waves.
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:19 PM   #31
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

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Originally Posted by Kris View Post
People need to understand that just because blood gives 4hp/sec that does not mean that it remotely counteracts armlets 35hp/sec. Unless your team is: Tide Puck DS Dk Wl people are not going to simpily stand around for you to hit them in a fight and they will stun you netting an extra 70-135 damage on you that is essentially pure.

Armlet excels in doing about two things:

1. running from heroes without Stuns/Dots since you can just tap it for a large Hp boost from time to time
2. auto attacking retards
3. farming neut camps without ever having to go back (even though you can already do this with HOTD)
1.blood's 4hp/sec doesn't counter armlet's 35 degen per sec, but it saves you the hassle of returning back to fountain to regen after using it which is very important in the game because you can then spend that time continuing to farm/nc/do whatever shit you want (because armlet pulls down your hp almost always after using it)

2. sure they stun you and shit but if you're not fighting 1v3 the hp boost from armlet (475 if im not wrong) will almost always give you surplus hp (unless you go on long chases)

3. people aren't going to stand around so if you have no stuns and you are melee form, hence forcing you to go on long chases hence making the armlet degen become disastrous, then yea armlet sucks. but dk happens to have a 3.25 second melee stun meaning when you turn it on, you know you're going to get at least 4~5 hits in. add in the fact that you have ranged form and thats a lot more hits for dk.

4. also, when you assume people aren't retards who let you auto attk, you probably should assume that the person playing dk isn't a retard who ganks without teamates to support him.

now onto your points.

your first point: that point is EXTREMELY situational and rarely ever happens. i seriously doubt anyone getting armlet considers getting the item because "LOL I CAN SUDDENLY GET A LARGE HP BOOST". its like saying "quellin blade excels in allowing you to cut out of furion's sprout"

your second point: when you assume people aren't retards who let you auto attk, you probably should assume that the person playing dk isn't a retard who ganks without teamates to support him.that aside, dk has a ranged form and a 3.25 second melee stun meaning when you turn it on, you know you're going to get at least 4~5 hits in and probably a lot more if you're not retarded and have teamates supporting you.

your third point: i don't get this point. armlet allows you to do that? funny, evertime i turn on armlet, even if my target doesn't hit back, i find myself with less hp than before. i'm guessing its due to the degen but maybe it works the other way for you.

it makes a lot more sense if you say that, due to dragon blood, you can use armlet to nc without every going back because the degen is easily regenerated by your dragon blood.

armlet doesn't excel for any of the 3 points you stated.

armlet excels for dk because he makes use of all of its bonuses, dragon blood helps him to use armlet without needing to go back to the fountain everytime he uses it, and also because he has ranged form and a 3.25 melee stun which minimizes the possibility of long, drawn-out chases wheere the degen damage accumulates
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:29 PM   #32
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

HotD, Crix

Everything else is just gravy (ac, rad etc). Wand if you really seriously need mana, I guess.
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:30 PM   #33
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

Quote:
Originally Posted by legod View Post


now onto your points.

your first point: that point is EXTREMELY situational and rarely ever happens. i seriously doubt anyone getting armlet considers getting the item because "LOL I CAN SUDDENLY GET A LARGE HP BOOST". its like saying "quellin blade excels in allowing you to cut out of furion's sprout"
This is actually one of the most important parts of the item. This is also one of the only reasons i will be caught with a QB unless i am playing a ricer on a 150+ms host.
Quote:
your second point: when you assume people aren't retards who let you auto attk, you probably should assume that the person playing dk isn't a retard who ganks without teamates to support him.that aside, dk has a ranged form and a 3.25 second melee stun meaning when you turn it on, you know you're going to get at least 4~5 hits in and probably a lot more if you're not retarded and have teamates supporting you.
IDK where all of you idiots got the idea that all fights somehow are = ganks but it is a horrible misconception.
Quote:
your third point: i don't get this point. armlet allows you to do that? funny, evertime i turn on armlet, even if my target doesn't hit back, i find myself with less hp than before. i'm guessing its due to the degen but maybe it works the other way for you.
It really isn't a hard concept and most people understand that you can get the burst 475 HP for every creep camp which is normally enough to finish said camps. In this sense you never have to go back because you always have enough HP to hit neuts. The problem with this is that it leaves you without enough HP to safely farm the lane against competent opponents.
Quote:
it makes a lot more sense if you say that, due to dragon blood, you can use armlet to nc without every going back because the degen is easily regenerated by your dragon blood.
So a skill that in and of itself takes 9 times as long to regen the lost HP is suddenly the reason why you can jungle? Somehow the numbers don't add up... It is still 5 times as long even if you factor in the regen from armlet which you should.
Quote:
armlet doesn't excel for any of the 3 points you stated.

armlet excels for dk because he makes use of all of its bonuses, dragon blood helps him to use armlet without needing to go back to the fountain everytime he uses it, and also because he has ranged form and a 3.25 melee stun which minimizes the possibility of long, drawn-out chases wheere the degen damage accumulates
Last time i checked before BKB you are getting stunned either before you get into melee range or during your own stun, somehow this seems like it would greatly impact your dps.


Also making armlet without HOTD is just retarded and I don't think there is any need to explain that.
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:34 PM   #34
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris View Post
I should note that the camps you stack are the ancient camp then you kite them if you are not strong enough to tank them. If you stand somewhere between 800 and 1200 from the camp you can normally auto them while taking minimal hits.

Near the 3 way fork in sentinel camp. Near the treeline to the lane in scourge or near the shop trees overlooking rosh.
I would prolly stack ancients when i;ve got level 2 ulti due to the splash attack and with dragon's blood maxed. The only problem from early levels for ancient stacking would be the damn dragon spawns.
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:37 PM   #35
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

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Originally Posted by DJRequiem View Post
I would prolly stack ancients when i;ve got level 2 ulti due to the splash attack and with dragon's blood maxed. The only problem from early levels for ancient stacking would be the damn dragon spawns.
Dragon spawns are easy and die to the splash damage, the only issue with farming your stack at 11 is that black dragons and drakes don't get splashed so it takes a while to kill the camp if you get many of them. Thankfully they only spawn 1/4 of the time (golum, dragonspawn, stalkers, dragons)
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:55 PM   #36
fevgatos
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

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Originally Posted by Kris View Post
MOM while it can be effective does the same thing as armlet which is makes you die faster for the same damage you would have done if you lived longer. MOM and Armlet make you more vulnerable to stuns which most people will throw at you during a fight.

Also HOTD and creep stacking is like a free 2k-4k mid lategame which tends to outweigh the benefits of MOM.
Wrong. Armlet doesnt make you more vulnerable to stuns at all.
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If I told you "AFK Mom just died" and afked right outside of your tower range with hold. 10$ says the most people would kill the hero, if you don't; your one naive child.
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Old 04-06-2010, 04:58 PM   #37
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

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Originally Posted by Kris View Post
they will stun you netting an extra 70-135 damage on you that is essentially pure.
Wrong... armlet gives you 475 hp on activation. Guess what that means. For the next 15 sec whatever hp you lose from the degen aren't actually your own hp but armlet's. But since a teambattle doesnt last that long , and since even in the case you got disabled and focus fired you wouldn't last 15sec but more like 3-4-5 sec , armlet actually GIVES you HP even when permadisabled. PERIOD

OT : Armlet + Treads + HotD is core. Then anything can work , from BKB to Buriza / Cuirass / Radiance / HoT or whatever else you may need
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If I told you "AFK Mom just died" and afked right outside of your tower range with hold. 10$ says the most people would kill the hero, if you don't; your one naive child.
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Last edited by fevgatos; 04-06-2010 at 05:05 PM.
Old 04-06-2010, 05:05 PM   #38
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

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Originally Posted by fevgatos View Post
Wrong... armlet gives you 475 hp on activation. Guess what that means. For the next 15 sec whatever hp you lose from the degen aren't actually your own hp but armlet's. But since a teambattle doesnt last that long , and since even in the case you got disabled and focus fired you wouldn't last 15sec but more like 3-4-5 sec , armlet actually GIVES you HP even when permadisabled. PERIOD
Dude! These kinds of theorycraft were thrown out of the window ages ago. The fact is, 35 hp/sec hp loss during combat is a huge deal. Why do you think heart was nerfed and all the QQ surrounding it? It was because regen in combat was just that good. Armlet is just the opposite of that- DE generation in combat. In itself that is not a bad thing- it is the same concept as mask of madness- damage in exchange for survivability- and that is what makes the item balanced ( if there was no degeneration the item would be completely imba ). But stop saying things like 'armlet gives hp/survivability'. It gives you just the opposite of that.
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Old 04-06-2010, 05:07 PM   #39
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

I don't play him with items. I go naked like a true Dragon.

I use my gold for buybacks only.
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Old 04-06-2010, 05:13 PM   #40
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Default Re: Best items For Dragon Knight

^Thats what I'm trying to say

He doesn't need armor, regen or speed. Helm of iron will to start makes you an invulnerable God early game until you level Blood, then crix+HotD+aoe dragon splash makes you a God all over again late game.

All his items are just gravy.
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