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#1 | |
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Changelog: The test map IS NOT up to date with the July 23rd changes. July 23rd, 2010: Orbit tweaked. No more +stats, now has some pretty nifty damage reduction shenanigans. June 2nd, 2010: Tether damage reduced. Tether can now hit enemies multiple times. Orbit cooldown increased. May 5th, 2010: Max HP bonus on Orbit changed to bonus attribute stats. Orbit damage buffed to 75/150/225. Discharge search AoE from 150 to 200. May 3rd, 2010: Damage from Burst removed. Cooldown decreased Orbit stun removed. Now gives a max HP bonus to allies within the area. Cast range does not scale per level; it has a constant maximum of 450 on each level. Discharge nerfed a bit on higher levels, but a bit better on lvl 1. |


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#2 |
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 20
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fantastic
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#3 |
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Wherever home is
Posts: 122
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Wow, I also made a wisp suggestion not too lang ago. But anyway, onto yours
This one looks nice and I will try the test map soon. I will also give a better reveiw soon. Stats: I think it's quite good Skill 1 - Burst: Erm, that dmg for 100 mana cost at all levels seems underpowered to me. That is a lot of mana for poor dmg. A normal attack will do even more than this and lvl 4 100 dmg is very weak imo... and how far are the enemy units knocked back precisely? Skill 2 - Tether: Well this obviously requires an ally, but even more, it requires positioning and movement. What will happen if one of u is disabled? Wouldn't a dragg ablilty work better? like in the more heroes caught in the tether, the slower the 2 of u move, while still dragging them until the tether vanishes? And I suppose u won't be able to use this along with Burst if burst works almost like waning rift and illusory orb? Or maybe consider magic immunity as well? Skill 3 - Discharge: I like this skill. Synergize well with Burst. I c this being quite annoying (and maybe OP, but since it's based on % HP, I guess it's ok) in the laning phase as well. Because with this, every time u come within range of an enemy hero, he'll be dmg and u be healed... even better than range splash. Ulti - Orbit: This skill does not look like an ulti at all and imo doesn't really fit. Pit of malice is more effective. I'll come back again soon, Can't linger right now. Erm, what do u think of my wisp suggestion? Just curious to know. |
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#4 | ||||
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Your replies make me think that you haven't played the test map. To gain a better idea of how these spells would work in conjunction and to gauge their power more accurately, I urge you to do so. Otherwise your opinions are rather meaningless. |
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| Last edited by kitchen; 04-12-2010 at 10:24 PM. | |||||
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#5 |
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Bwahaha, I have no complaints, test map was fun as hell.
However just one speculation, for Tether how about it deals damage ever 0.5 seconds enemy unit take damage. Doesn't make much sense for some lightning chain to not deal further damage when touching the enemy. So enemies will recieve 10/20/30/40 damage per 0.5 seconds each time they come in contact with tether. This will deal a maximum of 400 damage which kind of balances itself out since it requires an enemy to be continuous on it. With that small change, I think boosting the first skill's damage output to scale 75/100/125/150 would be a bit reasonable. His ult seems fine though kind of resembles Puck's in away though not quite. Overall: I love the testmap and this hero seems pretty solid. Huge damage output but thin as paper quite like it. Would love to see how SB and this guy will work when they gank. >
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#6 |
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Fun hero to play with..
as long you have high MS for chasing and a huge amount of HP for staying alive whilst chasing.. All i know is that this hero needs a little more tweaking... GOOD LUCK |
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#7 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 401
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I'm new to the whole Hero suggesting/reviewing thing but daaaamn, this guy is fun. I absolutely loved playing around with him in the test map, zooming all over the place with burst and the Tether+Orbit move is really cool.
I can see Io being very hard to be effective with though.. the best combo I can think of is bursting into an enemy to push him between an ally, then tether the ally, then Orbit. Getting the positioning right for that will be an epic task, and the damage won't be that high for all that effort. At least that's what I'm thinking. You'll hit one burst (100), 1 Tether spin (300) and one Orbit (175). So at a high level this isn't going to do much damage if you take in reduction. Maybe Aghanim's Scepter could cause Orbit to spin 2-3 times, increasing the tether damage. I think Tether should last longer too. Just some quick initial thoughts, I love the guy in general. Lots of fun!
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#8 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 822
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This is a fantastic gank/support hero - the abilities have clear synergy and the test-map was fun to play. Good job developing this
![]() Burst:
Tether: Great concept!
Discharge:
Orbit:
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| Last edited by Mystique-; 04-13-2010 at 03:41 AM. | |
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#9 |
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The heroes mobility is by far the best thing about him.
Burst is such a great skill over all, by far his best. It has potential for just about everything. Chasing, escaping, mobility, positioning, damage. Honestly, it is probably too powerful. Tether is an okay spell. I agree with kings empire. Damage overtime would feel, function and look better. Obvious support ganking spell. I like it, but of all the skills on this hero this one seems the most out of place. Discharge just works on this hero. With burst and orbit this skill will proc fairly often, and because it is melee range it is balanced. 600 range might even be to far, but I don't know. Orbit is a nice skill. It simply works with all of his skills, and I always wanted a wall of flames skill. The closest thing in dota is wall of replicate, but I definitely prefer this version. Its fun. This is definitely the best candidate for force staff I have ever seen, besides maybe techies. (but this hero would be more fun.) On the other hand, he is definitely very much like puck. His mobility, and what he does are nearly the same. The only thing is is that puck would be more reliable and better in more situations. This hero would definitely be fun to play, but I think puck outshines him in to many areas. I would certainly enjoy playing him though.
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#10 |
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About Tether doing continuous damage rather than "one shot" damage:
That would be better cosmetically I guess, but it would remove a lot of the synergy between Tether and Orbit especially. This is the hero's main "Whoa!" combination of spells, and it only works because you only have to hit someone once with the tether to trigger the damage. If tether did its damage periodically, you'd only get minuscule damage by this method, which would be a shame since it's a pretty cool maneuver imo. @kings.empire: Thanks, glad you like the test map. Imagine him in a real game! I've already addressed the tether issue. And yes, he's designed to be fragile because of the obscene amounts he can repeatedly heal. This is also why Discharge is based off of the TARGET's max hp, not his. His is low. @carlvic: Thanks, I made him with fun in mind first. And I agree about the need for life while chasing, which is a reason he has his self-healing spell. @KyonoRocks: Haha, yeah, I like messing around in the test map too. I guess it's a good sign when a hero is fun to play even when all you're doing is beating up a footman. As for the spell combinations not being as powerful as they should be, there are plenty of possibilities. Here's an example: Enemy has 3000 max hp. Walk up to him, triggering Discharge. Blast him away with Burst, run away during the 1.5 seconds, and then nail him with the second Burst, which also triggers another Discharge. Tether an ally and use the increased movespeed to run away from the enemy, while your ally makes sure that the Tether strikes the enemy. Then run back to the enemy, for another Discharge. Now Orbit pretty far away. On your return to the cast point, another Discharge will trigger and the enemy will be struck by the Orbit enter damage. Move around him, during the stun time, and blast him out with a Burst, causing him to take the Orbit exit damage. Now run away during the 1.5 seconds, and land the second Burst, triggering a Discharge and blasting back into the Orbit area. Obviously that's hard to do, but it'd be a total of 3025 damage (which would be reduced to 2269). @Mystique- Actually, Io is completely invulnerable during the Burst zoom. It's like Potm's old Leap, except shorter and with a 1.5 second delay. Not OP, imo. I've considered a break point for Tether, except that would be pretty counter productive since the hero does have 2 spells that cause him to travel long distances. Perhaps a very large break distance, like 4000, would be good to prevent screen cluttering when someone TP's. As for Orbit, it works like this. Click somewhere within cast range and Io will orbit around that point, with the distance from to the target point being the radius. So if you want to Orbit around where you're currently standing, you'd probably want to back up a bit (maybe with Burst). Destroying trees is a good idea on both spells; if I made another test map, I'll be sure to add that in. @uo111: His mobility is really good, yea. But don't mistake Orbit for a true movement spell; you end up right back in the same place. My thoughts on tether are at the top of the post. As for Burst, it might be too powerful, but it's hard to say. Knocking enemies back doesn't really serve a good purpose if you don't do it right. You could end up helping them with a bad Burst. Also, it's this hero's "primary" spell pretty much, so it has to be strong. It's like Zeus's bolt, or Morphling's waveform, or sk's burrowstrike. It's the main spell you're gonna be utilizing. I will agree on his similarities to Puck, but not that Puck would outshine this hero. Puck can decently semi-carry, in my experience, but I think this hero would completely blow Puck out of the water in terms of late game effectiveness. Discharge gets rather ridiculous as the game goes on. Also, I feel that this hero excels in dual lanes (quite obviously) more so than puck, and is more capable of very early game killing, whereas puck has an edge soloing. Actually, Puck and Io would be outstanding teammates. |
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#11 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 822
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what about your opinion on tether/orbit healing allies? to orbit especially, it would be a fair buff and to both spells would augment his healing abilities to better synergize with his role as support.
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| Last edited by Mystique-; 04-13-2010 at 05:52 AM. | |
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#12 |
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For Orbit, it'd be too strong. Allies could just enter and exit uber quickly, leading to disgusting amounts of healing. And we don't want that. For tether, it'd be awkward since you couldn't heal the person you're tethering anyway (they're not getting hit by the tether), and in many cases that's the person you're gonna want to be healing. I don't think this hero needs more heals slapped on to solidify his supporting role, but if others agree with you I'll consider it.
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#13 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 822
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For tether: it really depends on the situation: the other person on the tether may not need as much healing as another ally nearby. it is just more synergistic if the damage can harm/heal enemies/allies respectively. that's just my opinion though ![]() still think being able to tether illusions would be awesome: massive micro-ing ftw! |
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| Last edited by Mystique-; 04-13-2010 at 06:05 AM. | ||
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#14 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,574
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I must say I really liked the test map especially the layout and effects. I've never had the knack for that.
Burt - I think Burst is a rather good ability in my opinion, however I find the waiting time between bursts a little tad too long and that makes the ability not as fluid as it can possible be. However I understand though that the mechanics (specifically the wait time between bursts) can work a lot for triggering orbit and the ability. I suggest optimizing both aspects of fluidity and synergy here (I mean you couldn't compromise either). As for balance, I think it's a little too strong. Maybe a cooldown increase is in place? You could possibly make the cooldown similar to Puck's Illusory Orb as they almost have the same functionality. Tether - this is genius. I have been thinking of a similar ability however I think your execution is just excellent. I would have to disagree with previous posters though, saying that it should be DoT. IMO, burst is great, and works very well with the whole "vision" of this hero. As a compromise, probably, then a mid-high damage per check would be nice, however this would probably be underpowered especially when using Orbit, so sticking with the current one is already good to go. The thing is balanced already (above-average to excellent tier) because of the limit. The only thing that irks me is that it only works with allies. This really reduces the possibilities. I can see Io as an initiator very reminiscent of Puck (but still very unique from him for that matter) and an initiator almost always goes in first, so there wouldn't be an ally there most of the time. Discharge - I think Discharge is the weakest of the whole skill set (but still a strong ability IMO). I personally don't like the whole 600 units thing, I find it stupid, but it's probably necessary for balance. I think that the acquisition range is a bit too low-- and could still be increased to around 200 so that the potential of it triggering during Orbit would be high enough. I suggest changing how it works though. Maybe instead of the 600 units condition, just add a per unit cooldown that scales down per level instead. I highly recommend that. I think its a better solution. In addition, Instead of maximum life, I think current life would be better for balance, however this could potentially make it weaker (however it's already strong as it is!); I must argue that Zeus does 11% of current life pure damage every cast in an AoE.
I just thought of this now, but maybe you'd like this. Maybe the damage and healing part could be applied in an AoE around Io and the target? I mean all units within an AoE around the target are damaged and healed equivalent to 12% of the target's HP, while all units around Io are damaged and healed equivalent to 12% of Io's HP. Of course the AoE should just be small (probably equal to the acquisition range for consistency's sake). But of course this could already be too much. I'm just saying that this could potentially increase your initiating capabilities. (I hope you got that, because I sounded like a moron). Orbit - I like how Orbit works a lot. I think its a great ability and works quite differently though a little similar to Puck's Dream Coil. I can't really say much about the skill since it's already good in itself. I think the damage though is a little low. Increasing it a little would probably be nice (by 25 or 50 or just simply rescale the damn thing because it becomes too weak late game). The stun time could also scale up every level, but this is just a possibility. As for added functionality, I think the cast range could scale from 400 to 600 (instead of 300 to 500--) or maybe you could just make the AoE a constant 600 (a buffering distance for Discharge). That's probably it. A nice hero, IMO.
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#15 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 401
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I don't really see the similarity to Puck other than he looks like an Orb.
Dream Coil is an AoE stun with a 'Leave here or die' mechanic Orbit is an AoE stun with an 'Enter or leave here get slightly hurt' mechanic Orbit's damage isn't based on enemies leaving, it's based on you pushing them back and forth over the circle to cause damage. As well as the nice Tether combination. I just don't see Io as an initiator. He only has a 1 second stun, not exactly initating criteria. I see him as an AoE nuker who takes advantage of initiators who gather enemies for Tether+Orbits and Burst knockback over the Orbit line. The best scenario for Io would be a group of massed enemies so that he... - Tethers with the initiator (Magnataur blinking and Imploding behind a bunch of enemies would be amazing. Tether him then Orbit around all of them) - Discharges them all at once - Bursts them all at once back over the Orbit line
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#16 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,574
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@Kyono Rocks
I didn't say similar. I said reminiscent. I meant that they have the same feel but are not specifically similar. I don't know why you're being defensive here. I like the guy. -_- And Orbit does trigger from enemies leaving the area, it's just that you have an ability which makes enemies trigger it. Don't twist the mechanics-- bluntly speaking, damage is triggered upon 1) being in the area where Orbit is activated, 2) entering the area, 3) leaving the area, it just happens you have a Burst which is a very good skill that forces enemies to be in any of the three conditions. If he's not an initiator then probably Sand King's not an initiator as well no? Io in himself has big initiation potential and wasting that by making him a pseudo-presence hero is a bit of a letdown. Well he could be a presence type however his spells are not enough to make him work like that at par with Death Prophet or Necrolyte because most AoE nukers have very spammable skills (as mentioned, DP, Necro... Storm and Akasha works like that as well but are primarily gankers [presence via nukes]... other presence heroes include Undying, Batrider and Dazzle [via DoT and buff/debuff) With the length of my reply, I though I showed a great amount of understanding of the hero. I even looked at the trigger as it piqued my interest a lot. I guess someone seems to disagree.
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#17 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 401
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I wasn't being defensive, I just disagreed with the Puck comparison. Which every poster has made since the original. The only similarity I see is a short duration AoE stun and an AoE Damage+Blink move. The last one is like a mix of Illusory Orb and Meepo's Poof. Fun skill.
I agree with most of everything else you said, having to up the damage of Orbit to scale into late game, Tether not being a DoT and Discharge having a shorter range (600 is a little high). I just see this hero getting nuked to oblivion the second his Orbit stun runs out, hence why I feel he should come in after initiation and then add his stun and knock back to the mix. This is a very interesting hero, and I guess these sort of theorycraft discussions about a hero that doesn't even exist yet is a good sign
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#18 |
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,574
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You must agree that Io though is very item independent (very evident in the map) and with that, getting dagger should be prime priority. Burst is a poor substitute to dagger early game however, when it starts to drag on, it won't suffice.
The reason is the same with why Puck gets Dagger (though the order is reversed now Orb>Stuff>Dagger Out). We could both say that Puck is a very squishy initiator but because of his natural initiating capabilities, this minus side is quickly covered. Similarly Io works as a great initiator buy blinking in then doing some stuff, then bursting out just far enough to knock things back in the orbit and still be safe. Getting Dagger wouldn't be too much of a problem because of his AoE abilities as well as attack animation. Then he could move on to simple warding or getting whatever else the team needs (Guinsoo, Shiva) OR getting things which could make his initiation better (again, Shiva, Blademail, Linken's Sphere, Vang/Hood)
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#19 |
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 548
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Theme, model, icon:
Pretty unique and fiting. Stats and statistics: Seem to be balanced, but this whisp is squishy as hell taking in account that he needs to be near his enemies in order to affect them with his skills. Skills: Burst: Question. When you use this spell, you first cast it on target location, then first burst occurs around you, and after 1.5 sec second burst occurs on the location you targeted at the of the casting? If so, some complicated skill it is, but works pretty well on this hero. Good one. Tether: Original skill which synergies well with Burst, and brings some unique way of suporting in dota. It can be both used for ganks and as a way to help your alies escape. I would rather see it castable on self (no damage, but you still get MS boost), but apart from that, good one again. Discharge: While I like the damaging part, healing one is somewhat broken imo. In lane your ally would simply enter/leave/enter skill's range, regaining his health in no time. I would simply remove the heal and buff the damage to, let's say, 10%/12%/14%/16%. But that's up to you of course. Orbit: Again, nice spell. Fits the hero and makes the other skills easier to land/trigger. Not much to say about this one. Overall: Nice hero you have there, but just like I stated before, he's to paper-ish for someone who needs to be in the middle of fight. He doesn't really need agility, so what about decreasing it and buffing up strength? Either way, T-Up from me. And sry for not checking out test map, my graphics card got owned some weeks ago.
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#20 |
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srsly a whisp? hahaha nice idea
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