[Buff] Maelstrom & Mjollnir

[Cheaterhater]

Hi there,

most people say that Chain Lightning (provided by Maelstrom & Mjollnir) was the most useless orb effect, and in most cases, other orbs like Feedback, Corruption and especially Lifesteal are better alternatives, and I totally agree with this.

So, I had the following idea of buffing these items: Make them stackable.

• Explanation
• TL;DR version
• Pros and Cons

General Mechanics And Coding

Maelstrom and Mjollnir will not provide any orb effect by themselves anymore; instead, they should be coded like Cranium Basher.
This means that for each attack, you have a 20% chance that an orb effect which provides a 100% chance to release a 150 damage (Maelstrom) or 200 damage (Mjollnir) chain lightning would be added to your hero (another possibility, which doesn't have the typical Orb of Slow bugs, would be to use an Orb of Corruption based ability, check for the buff on the target and then release a Chain Lightning). This means that they are only orb effects on proc, but don't override any orb effect/buff placer in attacks where they don't proc.
This chance should be calculated for each Maelstrom/Mjollnir you have, and since only one of them can proc, the chances would stack diminishingly, which means that with two Maelstroms, your chance to release a Chain Lightning would be 36%. This is comparable to Critical Strikes on ranged heroes. Those don't have any interactions as long as they don't proc. If they proc, however, they are considered buff placers and therefore won't stack with other buff placers. Maelstrom and Mjollnir would behave the same, with addition that they are also orb effects on proc, but on proc only.

Stacking With Other Orb Effects

However, the point is not to stack multiple Chain Lightnings, the point is that you can stack it with other orb effects (except Lifesteal and some hero orb effects, which override all other orb effects). Since the new Chain Lightning orb effect would be a skill that is added for each attack, it would always be regarded as the last aquired orb effect and therefore override the following orb effects on proc:

• Incapacitating Bite
• Entangle (Spirit Bear)
• Feedback and Mana Break
• Geminate Attack
• Cold Attack (ranged, not sure about melee)
• Corruption

Examples Of Usage

For example, you could buy Mjollnir for Anti-Mage then. It would provide him insane attack speed and he would still burn mana except for 20% of his attacks in which he would release a chain lightning. This would increase his overall damage output. Of course he would burn 20% less mana than without Mjollnir, but I think that 70% IAS outweigh it.
Maelstrom/Mjollnir would then of course be an item of choice for all heroes who need both attack speed and an orb effect, for example Rikimaru (Diffusal Blade + Mjollnir, greatly increased Backstab damage).

It's definitely codeable and would give Maelstrom/Mjollnir a large potential.

Additional Change

As I implied at the beginning of my post, I suggest to restore the old values for Maelstrom Mjollnir (20% chance for 150/200 damage instead of 25% for 120/160) to make stacking (with other orb effects) more effective, but numbers should not be part of my suggestion and can still be discussed.

Special Mention: Luna

As the orb effect wouldn't be an ability of the item itself anymore, but would be added to the hero on proc, the trigger could check if the hero is Luna and, if so, doesn't add the Chain Lightning ability to her. This way, she could still attack (although she couldn't use the orb effect either).

• Make Maelstrom/Mjollnir stack with most orb effects (excluding lifesteal due to engine limitations)
• Chain Lightning will still completely override other orb effects on proc, so the concept of not having two orb effects in a single attack is kept
• Comparable to critical strike stacking rules, as it would work in the same manner
• Definitely codeable

Pros	Cons
Makes two unused, underpowerd items viable You won't waste your ability to have a unique orb effect for a simple damage boost	Might be considered "overpowered" (though I doubt this) Minor MSI (can be neglected)

So, comments anyone? Or is anything not clear?

[Padsoldier]

Great idea, this item is underused, it needs something that makes it more likeable.

[Kumpel]

sounds fine to me, but i doubt it's codeable.

The orb-effect system is out of ladder wc3, and it's stacking and overwriting rules are either.

the only way to changing these rules was to rewrite the entire orb-effect system, which cannot be done since there is no function to call of eiter an attack misses or not, resulting in e.g. incinerate triggering either the attack hits or misses, rendering evasion and blind way nerfed and useless to escape slow orbs.

now the only way to make a s&y maim or mjonlnir lightning as a %chance orb effect is by using ladder orb of slow template, which unfortuately got a very low orb-priority.

so far ;-)

[leMONQUakE]

it can be done if dota has a proper damage detection system (checks misses)

[Cheaterhater]

Originally Posted by Kumpel

The orb-effect system is out of ladder wc3, and it's stacking and overwriting rules are either.

the only way to changing these rules was to rewrite the entire orb-effect system, which cannot be done since there is no function to call of eiter an attack misses or not, resulting in e.g. incinerate triggering either the attack hits or misses, rendering evasion and blind way nerfed and useless to escape slow orbs.

now the only way to make a s&y maim or mjonlnir lightning as a %chance orb effect is by using ladder orb of slow template, which unfortuately got a very low orb-priority.

As far as I know, when you have two orb effects with the same base priority, the one last acquired will override the other. Am I wrong? The Orb Effect Stacking Table says I'm not. Of course this Chain Lightning would be overriden by the orb effects it has been overriden by in the past (e. g. Lifesteal and Incinerate), but it would override all orb effects that it used to override, including other orb of slow based abilites, since this chain lightning orb would be added before an attack starts and therefore after you acquired item orb effects (except you start your attack and then get an item, but it's really uncommon).
So I still think it's codeable and though it doesn't work with lifesteal, it works with Feedback and Corruption and therefore, it is a buff.

[doomed2die]

The codability can simply be done through a series of triggers. Roll for chance every attack (based on crit, bash, etc.) When chance occurs, deals +0 damage AND auto-casts chain lightning on opponent,being an orb for that singular attack. or make it proc the next attack.

[Cheaterhater]

Originally Posted by doomed2die

The codability can simply be done through a series of triggers. Roll for chance every attack (based on crit, bash, etc.) When chance occurs, deals +0 damage AND auto-casts chain lightning on opponent,being an orb for that singular attack. or make it proc the next attack.

This solution would not make it a true orb effect, only a buff placer on ranged units. What I had in mind is that it should work similar to Cranium Basher (which adds a 100% chance bash to your attack when the chance is met), but instead it would add an orb of slow based, 100% chance chain lightning to your attack. This would work and would considered a real only orb effect by the game, but only "on proc" (when the chance is met).

[BorisPeace-]

Why not just create a dummy unit on the hero position and have it cast Chain Lightning on the attacked unit o.O

Anyway T-Up on the sugg.

[dominator02]

Originally Posted by Cheaterhater

Hi there,

most people say that Chain Lightning (provided by Maelstrom & Mjollnir) was the most useless orb effect

nope,Sange and SnY's Maim is the category of useless orb effect as people/forumers QQ.

OT:

[Jackalist]

Definitely I love those orb effect on aspd heroes, but every time i must use non aspd heroes i become more and more miss them both so much. Now i hope this suggestion can change the way Maelstrom and Mjollnir being judged by people today. Maybe S&Y are useless, but the MS bonus is give make it popular on some specified heroes. It's not underused, it's just un popular -,-

[SuperSheep]

I hate chain lightning so I T-up this.

[Cheaterhater]

Thanks to all the T-Ups, and:

Originally Posted by BorisPeace

Why not just create a dummy unit on the hero position and have it cast Chain Lightning on the attacked unit o.O

It was just to keep the "only one effect per attack" system by making Chain Lightning an orb effect on proc. Creating a dummy unit that casts Chain Lightning would be just as simple, but would allow you to proc multiple effects on one attack (Chain Lightning + an orb effect) and would also affect spell block (except you make the dummy unit an ally of the attacked unit, but this would result in "suicides"), while the solution to code it similar to Cranium Basher would not have this spell block issue and would also not allow you to proc both Chain Lightning and another orb effect on one attack, but you could still use other orb effects in the attacks in which Chain Lighting does not proc.

[BorisPeace-]

Ok, I just thought using both effects on attack would be fine (like Lifesteal & Chain Lightning).

Spell Block isn't an issue o.O

[dogbiter]

t-up

[Shinig4mi]

from my side t-up.

but i asked the same thing half a year ago too. why are %-based effects orb effects?.

and the most of them said -> this will be imba ...

[darewin]

The orb is meant more for farming than hero kills. It is also fairly strong early game. just add more bounces

[Cáno]

This means: Maelstrom and Mjollnir will not provide any orb effect by themselves anymore, it should be coded like Cranium Basher instead, which means that for each attack, you have a 20% chance that an orb effect which provides a 100% chance to release a 150 damage (Maelstrom) or 200 damage (Mjollnir) chain lightning would be added to your hero. This means that they are only orb effects on proc, but don't override any orb effect/buff placer in attacks where they don't proc.

A better way to code this would be adding Corruption (as it stacks exactly like Orb of Slow) just to provide the buff then create a dumy unit to cast Chain Lightning. This is because even if Orb of Slow based spell has 100% chance to proc it will never proc if you don't issue attack command.
You could also use some Buff Placer instead of Corruption to make it stack with Orb Effects but that would significantly affect balance.

Edit: Note that you won't be able to use PRD if you code it like that. Why is this important? For example there is 17.8% chance that you have a serie of 6 attacks without procing. PRD makes it way more smoother.

[googleson78]

Originally Posted by Kumpel

sounds fine to me, but i doubt it's codeable.

The orb-effect system is out of ladder wc3, and it's stacking and overwriting rules are either.

the only way to changing these rules was to rewrite the entire orb-effect system, which cannot be done since there is no function to call of eiter an attack misses or not, resulting in e.g. incinerate triggering either the attack hits or misses, rendering evasion and blind way nerfed and useless to escape slow orbs.

now the only way to make a s&y maim or mjonlnir lightning as a %chance orb effect is by using ladder orb of slow template, which unfortuately got a very low orb-priority.

so far ;-)

Read main post again for coding and also check up hiveworkshop.com. There is an orb stacking system there.
OT:
Nice idea. Definite T-UP.

[Crossing]

great change. i like it

[Wurmple]

HUGE T-UP. I have always wanted to do this xD.