[Command] Allows observer to join teams [1.0d]

Antitheos · 09-02-2009, 11:20 PM

[1] How I imagine it.

[1.1]Scenario 1:
Observer types "-jointeamsentinel" or "-jointeamscourge" to join either of the teams. (mb -stse / -jtsc)
After doing that, he only sees, what his team can see.
He can be given control by his mates, like a normal player and use them like that.
He has zero gold and won't gain any. (Just like observer.)

[1.1.1] Short and easy:
His view is limited to the team's and he can control player units, if the player allows it.

[1.2] Scenario2:
Observer types "-joinviewsentinel" or "-joinviewscourge" to join either of the teams. (mb -svse / -jvsc)
After doing that, he only sees, what his team can see.
He can't get control over any unit (share disabled).
He has zero gold and won't gain any. (Just like observer.)

[1.1.2] Short and easy:
His view is limited to the team's.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
[2] Arguments.

[2.1]Why should the programmers bother to implement this command? (Scenario1)

It's neither for ultraprohighskilled level nor for random teams.
It's for fun wars between low-mid skilled people.
So please don't judge as "pro".
!! ( + any necrobook/HotD-user who hasn't yet been named.)
If someone really needs any more information about this argument, please do ask for it. (Edit: someone asked: read green text.)
Just something minor, but still an argument.
My mates and me are by chance enough to play.
But wait!, there is 1 (or are 2) too much.
We ask other teams about hosting with observer.
Sometimes the make trouble.
Because this allows us hypothetically to use our spare mates as a combined sentry/observer ward with global range.

[2.2] Why programm even a second comment? (Scenario2)

Some people will complain about the advantage given by the additional micro by sixth or senevth player.
The only advantage would be a higher map awarness commands given by someone who hasn't to focus on micro.

NoThlnG · 09-03-2009, 12:16 AM

I don't know for this. Sounds good and bad at the same time.... Null for now

Antitheos · 09-03-2009, 07:32 AM

What's bad about it?
Just curious.

Cáno · 09-03-2009, 07:15 PM

Quote:

What's bad about it?

The fact that observer should always be neutral makes it redundant. An observer who is on one side or another can just inform others with some voice communication - just as you pointed in the 3rd argument. I understand that observer wouldn't be able to regain observer status?

I don't get the second argument.

Greets
Cáno

Antitheos · 09-03-2009, 08:30 PM

Why should an observer be neutral?
I agree that he shouldn't use his sight to help one team or another, but this would even prevent that in the situation I described. (observer being mh for on team)
Yes, he shouldn't be able to regain neutral sight.

The second argument

Imagine Chen.

Chen has one Troll (Ensnare), one Furborg (Slam) and one Cent (Stomp).

(Unrealistic but possiple: +two demons by Necro Book.)

You have to evade incoming PotM arrow, Ensnare fleeing and get the Furborg to him for slow, and you have to cancel SK ultimate, whilst you have to cast Penitence on Ench for getting her down despite of Nature's Attendants and decide wether to use Test of Faith on your Beast Master or on her.

(And someone has to walk the demons!)

I know, this example is entirely exaggerated, but might happen.

My point is:
I believe most of the low and mid class clans can't use him or even Serpent Wards properly.
Or Brood for example, if one or to of the twenty spiders are used to scout for other hereos wgile chasing one por fellow, it could make the difference.
This is why I posted those heroes.

When I think about it, there seems to occur one problem:
It gives an advantage.

Have to alter idea.

Cáno · 09-03-2009, 08:57 PM

Now I see. Obviously it would require a separate mode (to - team observers, or something like that).

Greets
Cáno

Antitheos · 09-03-2009, 09:06 PM

It doesn't need a mode.
The command is enough. (the 4 I posted)
Just the observer who wants to join a team types the command.

Baldoro · 09-04-2009, 02:11 PM

I've just thought about something:
What about adding a command that allows an observer to ENTER THE LEAVER's hero!?
The share, cash and items would not be given to leavers teammates in the nearest 1 minute. That would be the time for observer, to think about entering the leaver.
What do You think guys?

Antitheos · 09-04-2009, 02:20 PM

It would be a very uncommon situation.
Or what kind of DotA games would require this?

Cáno · 09-04-2009, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antitheos

It would be a very uncommon situation.
Or what kind of DotA games would require this?

So, you claim that you consider leavers as very uncommon? Maybe you are right, when observers are in then the chance of leaving decreases.

Greets
Cáno

Lycan · 09-04-2009, 02:27 PM

well wouldn't hurt.... 6 v 6 dota but wouldn't be possible for Comp dota though.

Antitheos · 09-04-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cáno

So, you claim that you consider leavers as very uncommon? Maybe you are right, when observers are in then the chance of leaving decreases.

Greets
Cáno

Leavers are common in pubs.
Observer aren't.
And our standard rage quitter me-solo-mid-random-agi has feeded before, I wouldn't take his place.

In fun/caln wars vice versa.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lycan

well wouldn't hurt.... 6 v 6 dota but wouldn't be possible for Comp dota though.

Yes, pros won't need it. (But how many pros are out there who have really mastered Chen? (I really don't know.))
But I have even problems with Silla.^^

JohnnyMoe · 09-04-2009, 10:17 PM

No, Observers are privy to certain information from the opposing team, provides an unfair advantage, and micromanaging your hero and any summons is part of the fun and challenge of those heroes. It should be the goal of anyone who plays more than one game a week to improve upon all of their skills. Allowing a second party to control your units handicaps the player overall.

Antitheos · 09-05-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyMoe

No, Observers are privy to certain information from the opposing team, provides an unfair advantage,

If done during bans/picks?
Of course during it shortly before 0:00 (guyz, 3 up to gank ya!), there would be a commotion.
The current situation is, when our opponents allow us to have observers (or the other way around), we may abuse that.
But we don't.
It would simply erase the possibility to be such anfair with an observer on our side.

Quote:

and micromanaging your hero and any summons is part of the fun and challenge of those heroes. It should be the goal of anyone who plays more than one game a week to improve upon all of their skills. Allowing a second party to control your units handicaps the player overall.

It's a "can", not a "must".
Also, I proposed a second commend, only limiting the view.

AbyssPetra · 09-05-2009, 12:22 PM

i like the part where you can choose which side you only want to see. but being able to control..meh, doesnt sounds like observing.

Antitheos · 09-05-2009, 01:06 PM

Yes, you are now longer a normal observer.^^
It's rather assisting.

But not with second command, you'd really only observe.

Antitheos · 09-11-2009, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoThlnG

I don't know for this. Sounds good and bad at the same time.... Null for now

Still not knowing what you meant with bad.

Bump.

Banned.Comic · 09-13-2009, 10:45 PM

Well, it couldn't hurt to create such a command, in my opinion. The only thing is that you must find a programmer willing enough to do so. That's why this whole post started probably

.

It is true that there aren't that many observers in pubs, because the average pub will think that the observer will give info by private talking to the host and vice-versa. I play some observer games sometimes, but these are only filled with friends and the observer is just someone, who wants to talk instead of playing the game itself. Eventually he/she will leave the game because it gets tho boring for him/her.

So the suggestion to let a observer actually team-up with one of the sides is actually quite a nice suggestion. It also is good that the observer is able to control one of the units from time to time. For example if someone has to go take a leak or something like that. Should be quite handy and nice to know, that someone is still doing his/her best to give your hero some extra levels and gold. Not to meantion it breaks the sometimes boring view.

Don't know what causing it to be such a problem actually...

NoThlnG · 09-14-2009, 01:58 AM

The problem is there's rarely an observer games on pub (actually, I've seen only in 1v1 situation only) while in pro this shouldn't be done.

So, I think this is not that necessary but this won't hurt either.... Still, a null vote

HELLRAISER · 09-14-2009, 09:01 AM

how, about when there is a leaver, can a team observer take control over his hero? thats would be nice in case an unfortunate DC happen

09-02-2009, 11:20 PM	#1
Antitheos Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 224	[Command] Allows observer to join teams [1.0d] [1] How I imagine it. [1.1]Scenario 1: Observer types "-jointeamsentinel" or "-jointeamscourge" to join either of the teams. (mb -stse / -jtsc) After doing that, he only sees, what his team can see. He can be given control by his mates, like a normal player and use them like that. He has zero gold and won't gain any. (Just like observer.) [1.1.1] Short and easy: His view is limited to the team's and he can control player units, if the player allows it. [1.2] Scenario2: Observer types "-joinviewsentinel" or "-joinviewscourge" to join either of the teams. (mb -svse / -jvsc) After doing that, he only sees, what his team can see. He can't get control over any unit (share disabled). He has zero gold and won't gain any. (Just like observer.) [1.1.2] Short and easy: His view is limited to the team's. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- [2] Arguments. [2.1]Why should the programmers bother to implement this command? (Scenario1) It's neither for ultraprohighskilled level nor for random teams. It's for fun wars between low-mid skilled people. So please don't judge as "pro". !! ( + any necrobook/HotD-user who hasn't yet been named.) If someone really needs any more information about this argument, please do ask for it. (Edit: someone asked: read green text.) Just something minor, but still an argument. My mates and me are by chance enough to play. But wait!, there is 1 (or are 2) too much. We ask other teams about hosting with observer. Sometimes the make trouble. Because this allows us hypothetically to use our spare mates as a combined sentry/observer ward with global range. [2.2] Why programm even a second comment? (Scenario2) Some people will complain about the advantage given by the additional micro by sixth or senevth player. The only advantage would be a higher map awarness commands given by someone who hasn't to focus on micro. __________________ One of the reasons why I like Watchmen: He saw the true face of the 20th century and chose to become a reflection, a parody of it. No one else saw the joke, that's why he was lonely. Heard joke once: Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says "But Doctor... I am Pagliacci." Good joke. Everbody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.

Last edited by Antitheos; 09-03-2009 at 09:08 PM. Reason: Critism and organising.

09-03-2009, 12:16 AM	#2
NoThlnG Forum Staff Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Nowhere Posts: 14,371 Blog Entries: 8	Re: [Command] Allows observer to join Sentinel/Sco I don't know for this. Sounds good and bad at the same time.... Null for now __________________ Assassin's Creed Helpful Links Suggestions Epic Quotes . Credits to Lotus V Eater . . How to Get Your Suggestion Implemented Custom Model GIF Request Suggestion Assisstor's Thread Guides, Lists and Templates How to Become a Moderator . . Suggestion Portfolio My Ability Collections .

09-03-2009, 07:32 AM	#3
Antitheos Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 224	Re: [Command] Allows observer to join Sentinel/Sco What's bad about it? Just curious. __________________ One of the reasons why I like Watchmen: He saw the true face of the 20th century and chose to become a reflection, a parody of it. No one else saw the joke, that's why he was lonely. Heard joke once: Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says "But Doctor... I am Pagliacci." Good joke. Everbody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.

09-03-2009, 08:57 PM	#6
Cáno Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Kraków, Poland Posts: 4,126	Re: [Command] Allows observer to join teams [1.0c] Now I see. Obviously it would require a separate mode (to - team observers, or something like that). Greets Cáno

09-03-2009, 09:06 PM	#7
Antitheos Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 224	Re: [Command] Allows observer to join teams [1.0c] It doesn't need a mode. The command is enough. (the 4 I posted) Just the observer who wants to join a team types the command. __________________ One of the reasons why I like Watchmen: He saw the true face of the 20th century and chose to become a reflection, a parody of it. No one else saw the joke, that's why he was lonely. Heard joke once: Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says "But Doctor... I am Pagliacci." Good joke. Everbody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.

09-04-2009, 02:11 PM	#8
Baldoro Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Poland Posts: 992	Re: [Command] Allows observer to join teams [1.0d] I've just thought about something: What about adding a command that allows an observer to ENTER THE LEAVER's hero!? The share, cash and items would not be given to leavers teammates in the nearest 1 minute. That would be the time for observer, to think about entering the leaver. What do You think guys? __________________ My Hero - Grothorned, The Kodo Rider! [Now with a wonderful test map by Lord of theDing!]

09-04-2009, 02:20 PM	#9
Antitheos Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 224	Re: [Command] Allows observer to join teams [1.0d] It would be a very uncommon situation. Or what kind of DotA games would require this? __________________ One of the reasons why I like Watchmen: He saw the true face of the 20th century and chose to become a reflection, a parody of it. No one else saw the joke, that's why he was lonely. Heard joke once: Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says "But Doctor... I am Pagliacci." Good joke. Everbody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.

09-05-2009, 01:06 PM	#16
Antitheos Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 224	Re: [Command] Allows observer to join teams [1.0d] Yes, you are now longer a normal observer.^^ It's rather assisting. But not with second command, you'd really only observe. __________________ One of the reasons why I like Watchmen: He saw the true face of the 20th century and chose to become a reflection, a parody of it. No one else saw the joke, that's why he was lonely. Heard joke once: Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says life seems harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world where what lies ahead is vague and uncertain. Doctor says "Treatment is simple. Great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go and see him. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says "But Doctor... I am Pagliacci." Good joke. Everbody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.

09-13-2009, 10:45 PM	#18
Banned.Comic Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: I live in Belgium, the land of beer and choclade!! =') Posts: 98	Re: [Command] Allows observer to join teams [1.0d] Well, it couldn't hurt to create such a command, in my opinion. The only thing is that you must find a programmer willing enough to do so. That's why this whole post started probably . It is true that there aren't that many observers in pubs, because the average pub will think that the observer will give info by private talking to the host and vice-versa. I play some observer games sometimes, but these are only filled with friends and the observer is just someone, who wants to talk instead of playing the game itself. Eventually he/she will leave the game because it gets tho boring for him/her. So the suggestion to let a observer actually team-up with one of the sides is actually quite a nice suggestion. It also is good that the observer is able to control one of the units from time to time. For example if someone has to go take a leak or something like that. Should be quite handy and nice to know, that someone is still doing his/her best to give your hero some extra levels and gold. Not to meantion it breaks the sometimes boring view. Don't know what causing it to be such a problem actually... __________________ If you are searching reviewers, click the icon above. My hero idea: : The Black Wolf - Haratha (click here.) : The Northspring Harpy - Edana Hatetalon (click here.)

09-14-2009, 01:58 AM	#19
NoThlnG Forum Staff Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Nowhere Posts: 14,371 Blog Entries: 8	Re: [Command] Allows observer to join teams [1.0d] The problem is there's rarely an observer games on pub (actually, I've seen only in 1v1 situation only) while in pro this shouldn't be done. So, I think this is not that necessary but this won't hurt either.... Still, a null vote __________________ Assassin's Creed Helpful Links Suggestions Epic Quotes . Credits to Lotus V Eater . . How to Get Your Suggestion Implemented Custom Model GIF Request Suggestion Assisstor's Thread Guides, Lists and Templates How to Become a Moderator . . Suggestion Portfolio My Ability Collections .

09-14-2009, 09:01 AM	#20
HELLRAISER Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,827	Re: [Command] Allows observer to join teams [1.0d] how, about when there is a leaver, can a team observer take control over his hero? thats would be nice in case an unfortunate DC happen __________________ Check my Suggestions out: New Hero Suggestion: Hades, Lord of the Underworld <--- New Hero Idea: Tarvallon, The Ancient Healer Supportive item: Cross of Isis <--- Early game Item: Cape of Heroism Mid game Item: Demonic Orb Late game Item: Helphastus' Glory Click for a complete list of all my suggestions True-er words never have been spoken before!