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Old 05-28-2010, 11:06 AM   #1
ajmer
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Default Build for Raijin


What's the item build for him? I heard that you should do Bloodstone ASAP, but I often see in competitive games players go for linken's first. So what should I buy for Storm?

I wonder about skill build too, but I guess it's more flexible?
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Old 05-28-2010, 11:59 AM   #2
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

I never get bloodstone on him anymore. If enemy team has doom/bs I'll go linkens first, otherwise guinsoo first. So either linkens-->guins or guins--> linkens.

Raijin is probably the most flexible hero when it comes to skillbuilds. Always get ultimate at 6, but other than that it's up to you.
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:03 PM   #3
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

Always get your "attack" items first. Sure, "protection" items like linkens are great, but what's the point if you have nothing to protect?

If you are facing pseudo-blinkers/disablers/combo nukers get orchid. Else Bloodstone. I suggest guinsoo's as luxury.
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:31 PM   #4
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

Wand/Voids/bracers according to taste.
Int treads, later converted to str.
Guinsoo, bloodstone or linken first.
Guinsoo, linken, shiva or skadi second( if you didn't start with bloodstone, you are better off with something else ).
Add orchid if you desperately need the silence or are at minute 70.

2 voids, treads, guinsoo, linken will be just fine for most games.
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:34 PM   #5
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

If the enemy has virtually any targeted spammable spell, I go Linkens first. If you can get it early, it will save your ass SO many times. It also suits Storm's all or nothing, ROFL-in-out-of-nowhere-, kill-somebody-then-ROFL-out style of play.
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

This guide covers the options pretty nicely:
[Storm Spirit] Community Guide to Raijin - DotA Forums
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Old 05-28-2010, 01:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

^well, it says what i mentioned at first (bloodstone asap), but as i said i saw it's not always like that
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Old 05-28-2010, 02:16 PM   #8
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmer View Post
^well, it says what i mentioned at first (bloodstone asap), but as i said i saw it's not always like that
Bloodstone is outdated. It works in some situations but mostly you build other items. It is all about adapting to the game you are in. If you watch the Asians play Storm they usually go Treads, Bottle(if mid), Nulls/Wand, Dagon, BKB, Guinsoo. Naturally, this works because of their playstyle and how Asians play. They need that BKB because opposing team will have many disablers to counter Storm. If you play pub or random CW/FW I recommend either going Bottle, Wand, Treads, Linkens, Guinsoo/Orchid.
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Old 05-28-2010, 02:37 PM   #9
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

How do asians play? Seriously, I can't tell the difference between how asians and others play.
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Old 05-28-2010, 02:46 PM   #10
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

IMO bloodstone only if there are no hard counters in the opposition. Otherwise linkens --> guinsoo.
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:10 PM   #11
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

I generally check the opponents lineup to see if the opponents have spammable nukes/disables and/or the opponents lineup will allow me to free farm. If they dont have disables then imight try to free farm and get a 15min BS. Normally this wont happen so i go bottle->wand->int treads then igank. I rack up some kills and farm in lanes and get linkens next.
Basically Bloodstone is good if the opponents have little disables and you can farm it fast.
Linkens is better if they do have disables and you have to gank, which is most of the cases, thats why i buy linkens more.
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Old 05-28-2010, 08:40 PM   #12
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

Nobody mentioned a skill build which I find EXTREMELY important because of his mana issues early on.

1. Remnant
2. Overload
3. Overload
4. Grapple
5. Overload
6. Ball Lightning
7. Overload
8. Grapple
9. Grapple
10. Grapple
11. Ball Lightning
12+ Max Remnant and stats and Ball Lightning at 16


Reasoning: One level of remnant allows for good lane control with Overload harass. Remnant does NOT scale very well in terms of damage to mana cost. It seems like leveling it is kind of a waste because you could be using that mana for an extra spell, therefore, ANOTHER overload. Grapple maxed because its a disable, it scales well with NO mana increase on levels. Using this you keep your mana nice and sustainable while keeping the damage output of maxing Remnant.

Items:

Perseverance as fast as possible. Then intelligence treads and turn Perseverance into Bloodstone or Linken's depending on the team lineup (Usually ends up being Linkens). Afterwards Guinsoo is practically ALWAYS the best option. Then blah blah, more mana regeneration with orchid maybe, shivas is good too for the slow.
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:19 PM   #13
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

@Blarrg

Have you played Storm? Storm doesn't have any mana issues at start. His spells have low mana cost. It is only at level 6 he will have some mana issues if he spams his ultimate. Bottle usually solves that until you get your Perserverance.

Skill build depends on lane but if you go solo you usually go one of these two:

Remnant
Overload
Vortex
Vortex
Vortex
Ball
Vortex/Remnant
max Remnant

or

Remnant
Overload
Remnant/Vortex
Vortex/Remnant
Vortex
Ball
etc

Against dual lanes you can max Overload first to be ablet o get some last hits.
Vortex is crucial for successful ganks. I use this build and it works perfectly.
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:29 PM   #14
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtiQ View Post
@Blarrg

Have you played Storm? Storm doesn't have any mana issues at start. His spells have low mana cost. It is only at level 6 he will have some mana issues if he spams his ultimate. Bottle usually solves that until you get your Perserverance.

Skill build depends on lane but if you go solo you usually go one of these two:

Remnant
Overload
Vortex
Vortex
Vortex
Ball
Vortex/Remnant
max Remnant

or

Remnant
Overload
Remnant/Vortex
Vortex/Remnant
Vortex
Ball
etc

Against dual lanes you can max Overload first to be ablet o get some last hits.
Vortex is crucial for successful ganks. I use this build and it works perfectly.
Like someone said, his skillbuild is very flexible and matters mostly on opinion.
I like Blarrg's skillbuild and it's almost exactly the way I do. I also completely agree on his item choices for that matter. In my opinion, he has played Storm.
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:34 PM   #15
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtiQ View Post
@Blarrg

Have you played Storm? Storm doesn't have any mana issues at start. His spells have low mana cost. It is only at level 6 he will have some mana issues if he spams his ultimate. Bottle usually solves that until you get your Perserverance.
Yes I play Storm pretty regularly. Once I hit 6 you can kill 600-700 hp with my build. I also gank with him as much as I can, I don't go bottle because it somewhat slows me down and I don't have mana issues with my build ever.

Ganking 2+ heroes usually consumes all my mana and I use that time to farm up while my mana regens to go do it all again.

Main reason why I don't get bottle is because you most likely won't be getting every rune. Their are also other heroes that could be using the runes to bottle themselves.

I use your build as an alternative if I feel we need more disable over damage. Usually I can kill people before my grapple runs out. In your build you don't max remnant over grapple either so you are agreeing with my point

Both builds are suitable, the main thing is, static remnant isn't worth maxing super early, which i what I see a LOT of people do and it makes me mad.
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:39 PM   #16
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

SAY NO TO BLOODSTONE WTF

treads, linken then guinsoo = core
shiva = against dps
skadi = all around
orchid = combo/escape breaker

remnant
overload
vortex
remnant
vortex
ball
remnant
vortex
remnant
vortex
ball
overload
overload
overload
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Old 05-28-2010, 09:49 PM   #17
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruta View Post

remnant
overload
vortex
remnant
vortex
ball
remnant
vortex
remnant
vortex
ball
overload
overload
overload
Nah man, you need the overload early.
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Old 05-28-2010, 10:14 PM   #18
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruta View Post
SAY NO TO BLOODSTONE WTF

treads, linken then guinsoo = core
shiva = against dps
skadi = all around
orchid = combo/escape breaker

remnant
overload
vortex
remnant
vortex
ball
remnant
vortex
remnant
vortex
ball
overload
overload
overload
No early overload is really lowering your harassing ability in lane.
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Old 05-28-2010, 11:00 PM   #19
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

@Blaargh

Never the less, why would you max Overload early against a solo player? You obviously rely on your teammates to stun for you. Does that mean that you play CWs? If you do, Vortex will still be the best choice. Because to get maximal damage from Overload early game will force you to use your ultimate a lot=mana issues. If you don't, your damage output would be equal to a maxing Vortex build.
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Old 05-28-2010, 11:18 PM   #20
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtiQ View Post
@Blaargh

Never the less, why would you max Overload early against a solo player? You obviously rely on your teammates to stun for you. Does that mean that you play CWs? If you do, Vortex will still be the best choice. Because to get maximal damage from Overload early game will force you to use your ultimate a lot=mana issues. If you don't, your damage output would be equal to a maxing Vortex build.
Yes I play plenty of IH's and CW's. The MAIN reason I max overload over vortex is because of the amount of lane control it gives. The bonus damage is absolutely nothing to laugh at and a level 1 remnant makes it extremely spammable once you farm a void stone/perseverance resulting in easier farming as well. It is viable to wait a bit to max vortex because a 1.5 disable + drag should be enough for your allies to stun and nuke and kill the hero instantly.

Secondly, I usually don't have to use my ultimate more than twice. Second one usually being short range just for that extra damage and slow with overload. The first one being at about 600 range, and with level one ult thats only about 150 mana.
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Old 05-28-2010, 11:40 PM   #21
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloody Knuckles View Post
How do asians play? Seriously, I can't tell the difference between how asians and others play.
Are you serious? Stop trolling. I meant the competitive DotA scene in Asia.
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Old 05-28-2010, 11:48 PM   #22
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blarrg View Post
Yes I play plenty of IH's and CW's. The MAIN reason I max overload over vortex is because of the amount of lane control it gives. The bonus damage is absolutely nothing to laugh at and a level 1 remnant makes it extremely spammable once you farm a void stone/perseverance resulting in easier farming as well. It is viable to wait a bit to max vortex because a 1.5 disable + drag should be enough for your allies to stun and nuke and kill the hero instantly.

Secondly, I usually don't have to use my ultimate more than twice. Second one usually being short range just for that extra damage and slow with overload. The first one being at about 600 range, and with level one ult thats only about 150 mana.
Actually, the damage is something to laugh at. Having level three Overload instead of level one increases each hit with around 20 damage on heroes. That is not a lot. Vortex alone enables you to land a Remnant on a hero, which is 105 damage for 100 mana + the damage from the Overloads.

Comparison:

Vortex build:

22.5+22,5+22,5+105+22,5+some auto attacks = 195+auto attacks

Overload:

45+45+45+45+45=225

The damage is negelctable.
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Old 05-29-2010, 03:52 AM   #23
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

I'd almost always go with the Vortex build given the extra 150 unit drag and 1.5 seconds of disable. You're also slowed for the next 3 seconds, so you might as well have something to back it up during that time. On the side lanes, Vortex is a given to combo with allied stunners/nukers. As solo mid, you're going to be ganking a little after level 6, and allied heroes who come to gank mid for you can surely use the extra disable and drag. The fact that it will always drag the opponent to get hit by Remnant is always a plus too.
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Old 05-29-2010, 04:50 AM   #24
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

I also max overload first. It's his best lane control skill, and against stronger solos, his best bet for not getting raped. Use remnant lvl 1 to last hit a creep or two, then chuck the overload at your opponent. You'd be surprised how effective it is when you're doing it every other second.

Against heroes like Tinker or Viper, running in to vortex is a good way to get yourself killed.
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Old 05-29-2010, 05:28 AM   #25
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

6 divine the best
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Old 05-29-2010, 05:45 AM   #26
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

Quote:
Originally Posted by EJNOSTT View Post
6 divine the best
6 divine? Why not just go for 6 force staff? It synergizes with your ult better, and its cheaper.
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:44 AM   #27
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blarrg View Post
Ganking 2+ heroes usually consumes all my mana and I use that time to farm up while my mana regens to go do it all again.
This sums up storm in a nutshell. Kill, while you can't, farm. Also, as others said skills are flexible. The only general rules are you need at least 1 remnant and 1 overload early, and skilling overload is better than remnant.
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Old 05-29-2010, 03:07 PM   #28
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtiQ View Post
Actually, the damage is something to laugh at. Having level three Overload instead of level one increases each hit with around 20 damage on heroes. That is not a lot. Vortex alone enables you to land a Remnant on a hero, which is 105 damage for 100 mana + the damage from the Overloads.

Comparison:

Vortex build:

22.5+22,5+22,5+105+22,5+some auto attacks = 195+auto attacks

Overload:

45+45+45+45+45=225

The damage is negelctable.
You are arguing as if you harass with vortex. That's just stupid considering the casting range.

Bottom line is:

Lane Control... Overload > Vortex

Ganking... Vortex > Overload

And for myself, I take priority with lane control since allies usually have enough ganking power to make up for less drag and disable time.
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Old 05-29-2010, 07:52 PM   #29
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

I guess I'm the only one maxing Remnant first. In a succesful gank you can hit two remnants so the damage really matters to me. The downside though is having low level Vortex during early/midgame.

Well, I'm not much of a Storm player anyway but that's how I roll.
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Old 05-29-2010, 08:01 PM   #30
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

Ask yourself the following when building items on Storm -
Does the enemy have a silence? Yes - Buy Euls, No - Continue
Will the Linkens buff be valuable this game? (Valuable should effect ~2+ heroes on enemy team significantly ) Yes - Get it. No - Continue
Am I owning up + Enemy have low hp - Dagon is viable, Bloodstone for later viable.
No need for defense item - Guinsoo
Holy crap they have a silencer?!? - Go BKB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blarrg View Post
You are arguing as if you harass with vortex. That's just stupid considering the casting range.

Bottom line is:

Lane Control... Overload > Vortex

Ganking... Vortex > Overload

And for myself, I take priority with lane control since allies usually have enough ganking power to make up for less drag and disable time.
I think one could argue Overload at least = Vortex in ganking too.
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Old 05-29-2010, 09:38 PM   #31
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Default Re: Build for Raijin

Listen up it's simple. These people are newbs.

It's:

Str Treads
Bloodstone
Sheepstick

Situationally make Linkens instead of Bloodstone if you are facing many stuns or disables. So EZ.
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