Developer's Blog
Register Low Fi Mark Forums Read

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-02-2010, 01:08 PM   #1
qwerty.m
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 244
qwerty.m is offline

Default Chaos Knight Build


As you all know, Ck is one of the most imba heroes in 6.67c. So i was wondering, what are the best builds for him? I've seen many different builds ranging from mid to late game style. Some rush manta and radiance while others get an armlet early. Opinion?

I know the manta is imba because of his 2nd skill + crits. But is it better to pump the main hero or play with the image role?
 
Old 06-02-2010, 01:13 PM   #2
wutwat
Member
 
wutwat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,914
wutwat is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

i didn't play him a lot but i like manta -> hot
 
Old 06-02-2010, 01:30 PM   #3
BattledOne
Member
 
BattledOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Latvia, Riga
Posts: 2,929
BattledOne is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

i ussually start 2 mantles+ circle + tango/potion
Then make 2 nulls for smapabilitty Int/Str treads depending on how much i have to spam. Then manta ->skadi-> heart.
If you get an illus rune durng lvl 16 with a manta -> imba push or kill
 
Old 06-02-2010, 01:31 PM   #4
ExpertMarksman
Member
 
ExpertMarksman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Akshully is Dolan
Posts: 2,743
ExpertMarksman is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

My preferred build is always the same, stat/crit/ulti. For items, get power treads and hotd then stack tarrasque for as long as the game lasts. This build always ensures insta-win for me. You'll be feared on every teambattle and you'll be pushing like fuck, surprising any idiot that thinks you're nothing without your imba stun

Note: I only play pubs
__________________
 
Old 06-02-2010, 02:33 PM   #5
EyeOfFire
Member
 
EyeOfFire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,652
EyeOfFire is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Armlet/Manta. Makes your images awesome, but also gives you good damage and ganking power too.

Even if you only activate armlet before you phantasm, it's +25 str for them for much less than a heart (not to mention the heap of other bonuses).

I usually go bottle/wand too, as I play more of a ganking CK, but you could easily sub those out and just rush the armlet.
 
Old 06-02-2010, 03:21 PM   #6
uhoh
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 29
uhoh is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

I usually go bottle>tread>guinsoo then it's pretty much gg
 
Old 06-02-2010, 04:09 PM   #7
fevgatos
Member
 
fevgatos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,036
fevgatos is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

It depends on your playstyle. If you play a ganker CK go bottle ---> Treads (str / int) ---> wand ---2 nulls. After than get whatever you like , be it armlet / necronomicon / hot etc. If you play the hard carry route go for Hot FIRST---> armlet (keep it on 24/7 , hots regen > armlet's degen)---> Manta ----> hot x 3. After you farmed all those go outside the enemies base , click ulti, select images and attack ground on his base. GG
__________________
Paper is ok .
Nerf Rock . Its imba !
Sincerely yours,scissors

---------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonLasher View Post
If I told you "AFK Mom just died" and afked right outside of your tower range with hold. 10$ says the most people would kill the hero, if you don't; your one naive child.
 
Old 06-02-2010, 04:42 PM   #8
zaphodbrx99
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,101
zaphodbrx99 is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Battlefury-desolator ( or satanic ), BKB , treads, curiass .

Don't bother with images. Despite what they might be on paper they actually suck. They are only there for a short time on a huge cooldown and insane mana cost. 90% of the time I find they are just used for pushing/defending tower/rax. Besides if you can blink with images to 1 guy+stun, they are done for anyway no matter if you have items that help images or otherwise.

Chaos knight isn't a standard image hero. First of all he only has his images 13% of the time, compared to lets say Naga, who has it 75% of the time and it's actually even worse because sometimes you won't have mana to split. Second he's strength hero, which means that normal agi items like manta and diffusal are not efficient on him. Stacking strength is a failed idea in itself because str gives only dmg, whereas agi gives both dmg and aspd. ( which is why even heroes like Sven who benefit from str get items like MoM and buriza rather than massing str ).
Furthermore str items suck and give no actual benefit to images. Compare sange, armlet, heart, satanic to yasha, diffusal, manta, bfly. Images do not get maim , unholy rage ( except +str ), heart's regen or lifesteal, while they do get +ms, feedback and evasion. You might think that all the str makes the images hard to kill but it isn't really so, they still die anyway to random aoe's and cleaves just like any other images.

There's simply no point in bothering with the images. Use them obviously, but yeah, that's it, don't bother boosting them. Focus on the main hero, he needs mana ( both mana pool and regen ), and damage items to help his crit. Thus bracers , wand , treads ( put int first then str ), perseverence->battlefury and further whatever items you need.
 
Old 06-02-2010, 05:01 PM   #9
feral_nature
Member
 
feral_nature's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,427
feral_nature is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

hot>manta
 
Old 06-02-2010, 05:03 PM   #10
wd.Ripper
Member
 
wd.Ripper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,172
Blog Entries: 1
wd.Ripper is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Skill ; Max stun first, max Rift second, crit third & Mirror Image last.

Items ; Power Treads, Manta, mb Armlet, HoT, AC, Deso/Satanic.
Bottle + Wand early.
__________________
 
Old 06-02-2010, 10:03 PM   #11
qwerty.m
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 244
qwerty.m is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphodbrx99 View Post
Battlefury-desolator ( or satanic ), BKB , treads, curiass .

Don't bother with images. Despite what they might be on paper they actually suck. They are only there for a short time on a huge cooldown and insane mana cost. 90% of the time I find they are just used for pushing/defending tower/rax. Besides if you can blink with images to 1 guy+stun, they are done for anyway no matter if you have items that help images or otherwise.

Chaos knight isn't a standard image hero. First of all he only has his images 13% of the time, compared to lets say Naga, who has it 75% of the time and it's actually even worse because sometimes you won't have mana to split. Second he's strength hero, which means that normal agi items like manta and diffusal are not efficient on him. Stacking strength is a failed idea in itself because str gives only dmg, whereas agi gives both dmg and aspd. ( which is why even heroes like Sven who benefit from str get items like MoM and buriza rather than massing str ).
Furthermore str items suck and give no actual benefit to images. Compare sange, armlet, heart, satanic to yasha, diffusal, manta, bfly. Images do not get maim , unholy rage ( except +str ), heart's regen or lifesteal, while they do get +ms, feedback and evasion. You might think that all the str makes the images hard to kill but it isn't really so, they still die anyway to random aoe's and cleaves just like any other images.

There's simply no point in bothering with the images. Use them obviously, but yeah, that's it, don't bother boosting them. Focus on the main hero, he needs mana ( both mana pool and regen ), and damage items to help his crit. Thus bracers , wand , treads ( put int first then str ), perseverence->battlefury and further whatever items you need.

Wise words indeed my friend. I too feel reluctant to go manta since its costly build up price. Though MS IAS and agi ain't too bad, it just doesn't give raw damage. Is battlefury any good? Everyone i play with try their best to avoid battlefury claiming its a noob pubbers item on every melee hero whose name isn't Kunkka.
 
Old 06-02-2010, 10:10 PM   #12
tetra3
Member
 
tetra3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 299
tetra3 is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Nah, don't get battlefury. There are so many better items you could get.
 
Old 06-02-2010, 10:13 PM   #13
Chizn
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 60
Chizn is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

I go quelling+9 tangoes+ 1 hp pot. After I get perseverance then boots, finish bfury then finish treads, situational, manta if I am pushing. If defending I go cuirass, if they have lots of str I go desolator
 
Old 06-03-2010, 10:48 AM   #14
qwerty.m
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 244
qwerty.m is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Quote:
Originally Posted by tetra3 View Post
Nah, don't get battlefury. There are so many better items you could get.
-_- shouldn't you back your statement with examples?
 
Old 06-03-2010, 11:06 AM   #15
kingtipop
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 441
kingtipop is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

He can carry with minimal items thanks to crit and ulti.
Most important thing with CK is levels.
Gank as much as you can since he has the ability to.
Max rift as it is the most imba skill on him now.
Basic item build for me is Treads, Wand, Bottle.
---> Deso/Sny/Manta.

Battlefury is ok.
Nice damage, adds to crit.
People callk it noob cuz images don't crit, thats not enough for a justification as Bfury>Armlet anyday in my book.
Regardless of the cost watever ratio etc
 
Old 06-03-2010, 11:10 AM   #16
asdasd
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,076
asdasd is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Quote:
Originally Posted by qwerty.m View Post
-_- shouldn't you back your statement with examples?
illusions are very important so going for a pure dps item is not that good imo.. you can get an armlet , turn it on, create illus and them , if u can't stand armlet you can turn it off otherwise keep it.
__________________
[21:29] unicorn_samurai: learn
[21:29] unicorn_samurai: to
[21:29] unicorn_samurai: fuckign
[21:29] unicorn_samurai: t
[21:29] unicorn_samurai: ype
[21:29] unicorn_samurai: propperly
 
Old 06-03-2010, 12:52 PM   #17
qwerty.m
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 244
qwerty.m is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Yea, battlefury is mainly good because it starts of as a hp+mp item which turns into a damage item. I know desolator would give more bonus damages but you have to realise it is a awful buildup of 2 hammers and a recipe whereas perseverance accelerates your midgame ganks. Armlet isn't bad by any means gives you few seconds of steroids before you start getting worn off.

What's with the battlefury hate? Isn't the buildup good? Or do most of you find it a waste of slot later? But nowadays games end fast. Its just like people going battlefury on gondar. It helps alot. Am i right or is battlefury still crap? -_-
 
Old 06-03-2010, 03:08 PM   #18
IdOnTcArE_n00B
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 104
IdOnTcArE_n00B is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

__________________
I hate Cp6uja_
 
Old 06-03-2010, 03:37 PM   #19
Magsy<3
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Washington State, USA
Posts: 109
Magsy<3 is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphodbrx99 View Post
Battlefury-desolator ( or satanic ), BKB , treads, curiass .

Don't bother with images. Despite what they might be on paper they actually suck. They are only there for a short time on a huge cooldown and insane mana cost. 90% of the time I find they are just used for pushing/defending tower/rax. Besides if you can blink with images to 1 guy+stun, they are done for anyway no matter if you have items that help images or otherwise.

Chaos knight isn't a standard image hero. First of all he only has his images 13% of the time, compared to lets say Naga, who has it 75% of the time and it's actually even worse because sometimes you won't have mana to split. Second he's strength hero, which means that normal agi items like manta and diffusal are not efficient on him. Stacking strength is a failed idea in itself because str gives only dmg, whereas agi gives both dmg and aspd. ( which is why even heroes like Sven who benefit from str get items like MoM and buriza rather than massing str ).
Furthermore str items suck and give no actual benefit to images. Compare sange, armlet, heart, satanic to yasha, diffusal, manta, bfly. Images do not get maim , unholy rage ( except +str ), heart's regen or lifesteal, while they do get +ms, feedback and evasion. You might think that all the str makes the images hard to kill but it isn't really so, they still die anyway to random aoe's and cleaves just like any other images.

There's simply no point in bothering with the images. Use them obviously, but yeah, that's it, don't bother boosting them. Focus on the main hero, he needs mana ( both mana pool and regen ), and damage items to help his crit. Thus bracers , wand , treads ( put int first then str ), perseverence->battlefury and further whatever items you need.
I agree with this 100%. I went for a build like this in a game we were getting outpushed in a PDGG game and my team flamed me for making a battlefury + hyperstone.
 
Old 06-03-2010, 05:42 PM   #20
qoou
Member
 
qoou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,206
qoou is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

I like armlet because, not only does the hero himself (rather than images) very large bonuses, but also gives the images a good deal of hp if they happen to be off cooldown (and you happen to have enough mana for the ulti).
 
Old 06-03-2010, 06:00 PM   #21
Swiftkick
Member
 
Swiftkick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA! USA! USA!
Posts: 2,133
Blog Entries: 16
Swiftkick is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Quote:
Originally Posted by qwerty.m View Post
-_- shouldn't you back your statement with examples?
Images don't gain raw damage or cleave. The mana regen is nice, but there are other methods to regain mp. Also, BFury tends to make people farm more. CK should be ganking heroes, not taking on creep waves.
__________________
 
Old 06-03-2010, 06:38 PM   #22
Lollypatrolly
Member
 
Lollypatrolly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,097
Lollypatrolly is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Wand bottle treads
Armlet
Heart
Manta
Buybacks

Battlefury is a horrible noobitem because it adds only +65 damage, which is completely pathetic for CK compared to items like Heart.

Really funny shit if you find illu + dd runes, spawn all your illus, activate dd, then instant-KO any hero with your blink. Guaranteed kill even against monster tanks if you have armlet heart.
 
Old 06-03-2010, 06:53 PM   #23
GeneralCash
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 651
GeneralCash is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

str treads + urn/bottle + bracers -> hot -> manta

manta is awesome because you get low cd images for picking off heroes without wasting ulti but rushing it is a bad idea. hot makes images more fat while also giving some dmg, the game usually ends if ck gets it fast enough. actually, game will probably end while you still have 3 bracers and str treads cuz the hero is broken...

bfury is beyond retarded. it's even bad on simillar heroes who don't have awesome images (sven, leoric, naix), it definitely sux on ck.

armlet is trash right now, don't get it on anything, let alone a hero with no way of regenerating in combat. if you want strong images asap, get vanguard for the same cost.

diffusal is not worth it, you don't have images with you 24/7 and you don't benefit from agi. even purge is redundant.

desolator is meh but still the best orb if you really need one.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 02:44 AM   #24
zaphodbrx99
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,101
zaphodbrx99 is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lollypatrolly View Post

Battlefury is a horrible noobitem because it adds only +65 damage, which is completely pathetic for CK compared to items like Heart.
A.k.a I don't know anything about dota.

Heart is awful. Specially so for strength heroes. Raising your hp from 2500 to 3500 is plainly not useful or efficient in any way whatsoever. On a low hp hero like Leshrac that needs to tank, heart is useful because raising hp from 1500 to 2500 actually matters. Ever since the nerf to heart regen it isn't very useful on them either.

If you want survival get CURIASS on strength heroes because that is also an offensive item. If you want to boost str ( which is completely inefficient for reasons I have described before ), you should get armlet+satanic, not heart. Though that is still less useful than simply buying damage items.

BFury is a damage item. If you don't like it for whatever reason, replace with deso/MKB although in CK's case BF is a lot better.

Here's a replay to show how useless heart is on str heroes
GosuGamers DotA | Replay: EHOME vs cD

25 min PT-vlad-BKB with level 16 wicked sick Lycan and then proceeds to become completely useless by buying heart. Amusing as well as painful to see how he can't kill anything except towers and raxes when noone's around ( lol-backdoor, the only heart is actually good for ). Guess why? He doesn't have damage items ( he went for I'm gonna tank build ).

This fail is often observed in competitives.

Unique vs DTS (05/18/10)

Kunkka: Fuck lothar/BF/buriza. I'm gonna tank! Vanguard bkb blademail lifesteal ftw..

Mski vs Nirvana.my

Dragon knight: I'm gonna tank+be initiator! Hood+bkb+blink ftw
Alchemist: I'm gonna tank! Hood+vanguard+platemail ftw
Razor: I'm not a str hero, but I'm gonna tank too! Vanguard+bkb+skadi ftw

In my opinion the reason why we see this mentality of str hero= tank+initiator is because they often don't pick actual initiator tank heroes, or if they do they treat them as wardbitch = underfarmed, underleveled so they end up actually not being able to initiate or tank. One good example is tidehunter. It might sound funny but you actually sometimes see ghost scepter on tidehunter in competitives becoz he's totally unable to fulfil his role as tank-dps and is reduced to being walking ultimate. Rofl.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 02:50 AM   #25
Zesty_Pancakes
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,930
Zesty_Pancakes is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

What you're forgetting is that manta's images can also be used in RR, making every 5 seconds a deadly blow. Imo both builds can work, depends on the situation.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 02:57 AM   #26
sargeras66
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,199
sargeras66 is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Difusal is situational. HotD is usually a better orb to help with Armlet degen and to dominate a centuar, your 4 second stun should make it easy to stun with centuar. Manta for more images and IAS and IMS. BoT since Nessaj can take out raxes and towers in mere seconds. Bottle and Wand should keep u afloat early game.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 03:21 AM   #27
Loveless24
Member
 
Loveless24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 561
Loveless24 is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

I build Mjo, for extra 100 damage from reality rift. His base damage is good, he just need attack speed, for his imba illu
 
Old 06-04-2010, 03:30 AM   #28
Rizenix
Member
 
Rizenix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Earth, obviously
Posts: 1,142
Rizenix is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Anything works but try to not get BFury. It's useless for his images. My preferred build is always Armlet, Manta, HoT/Diffusal, Diffusal/HoT, depending on the situation.

Skill Build is Bolt & Rift until MAX, not to forget take Phantasm starting Lv 10 whenever you can, and take Critical, and max attribute last. Try to always Gank using him, since ganking is one of his specialty, just like Slardar.
__________________

Practice Makes Perfect,
But Nobody's Perfect,
So Why Practice Anyways?
 
Old 06-04-2010, 04:13 AM   #29
Loveless24
Member
 
Loveless24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 561
Loveless24 is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

^
indeed, rift is first to max than bolt
 
Old 06-04-2010, 05:26 AM   #30
qwerty.m
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 244
qwerty.m is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zesty_Pancakes View Post
What you're forgetting is that manta's images can also be used in RR, making every 5 seconds a deadly blow. Imo both builds can work, depends on the situation.
The main reason why people get Manta mainly for RR ability with images. Though as people say, it will only be useful if your images and you can deal decent damage. I have always been going wand bracer bottle armlet manta assault..though even with bottle i tend to struggle with mana. With battlefury, the perseverance is useful but the consensus is battlefury sucks. : /


Btw, what's up with people going stun crit stun crit early? Isn't RR one of his best skills early?
 
Old 06-04-2010, 09:27 AM   #31
TheAmerican
Member
 
TheAmerican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,104
TheAmerican is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magsy<3 View Post
I agree with this 100%. I went for a build like this in a game we were getting outpushed in a PDGG game and my team flamed me for making a battlefury + hyperstone.
I think people deserve to get their advice from someone who DIDNT die 16 times with CK with like 1 kill.

I thought the best part was...
I couldn't farm Armlet so I made Battlefury
Quote:
I build Mjo, for extra 100 damage from reality rift. His base damage is good, he just need attack speed, for his imba illu
Images don't get raw attack or attack speed. You get AS from agility.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 09:41 AM   #32
d07.RiV
Member
 
d07.RiV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 369
d07.RiV is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Why would you get manta, it gives little str and the extra illus are much weaker than your normal ones. I prefer going mass STR for insta kills/fast raxes. That is, armlet first, then optional sny (perhaps not ideal but I like the extra speed/slow if I'm killing a lot) then just mass hearts.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 10:45 AM   #33
Lollypatrolly
Member
 
Lollypatrolly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,097
Lollypatrolly is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphodbrx99 View Post
A.k.a I don't know anything about dota.

Heart is awful. Specially so for strength heroes. Raising your hp from 2500 to 3500 is plainly not useful or efficient in any way whatsoever. On a low hp hero like Leshrac that needs to tank, heart is useful because raising hp from 1500 to 2500 actually matters. Ever since the nerf to heart regen it isn't very useful on them either.

If you want survival get CURIASS on strength heroes because that is also an offensive item. If you want to boost str ( which is completely inefficient for reasons I have described before ), you should get armlet+satanic, not heart. Though that is still less useful than simply buying damage items.

BFury is a damage item. If you don't like it for whatever reason, replace with deso/MKB although in CK's case BF is a lot better.

Here's a replay to show how useless heart is on str heroes
GosuGamers DotA | Replay: EHOME vs cD

25 min PT-vlad-BKB with level 16 wicked sick Lycan and then proceeds to become completely useless by buying heart. Amusing as well as painful to see how he can't kill anything except towers and raxes when noone's around ( lol-backdoor, the only heart is actually good for ). Guess why? He doesn't have damage items ( he went for I'm gonna tank build ).

This fail is often observed in competitives.

Unique vs DTS (05/18/10)

Kunkka: Fuck lothar/BF/buriza. I'm gonna tank! Vanguard bkb blademail lifesteal ftw..

Mski vs Nirvana.my

Dragon knight: I'm gonna tank+be initiator! Hood+bkb+blink ftw
Alchemist: I'm gonna tank! Hood+vanguard+platemail ftw
Razor: I'm not a str hero, but I'm gonna tank too! Vanguard+bkb+skadi ftw

In my opinion the reason why we see this mentality of str hero= tank+initiator is because they often don't pick actual initiator tank heroes, or if they do they treat them as wardbitch = underfarmed, underleveled so they end up actually not being able to initiate or tank. One good example is tidehunter. It might sound funny but you actually sometimes see ghost scepter on tidehunter in competitives becoz he's totally unable to fulfil his role as tank-dps and is reduced to being walking ultimate. Rofl.
Pointless wall of text based on you misunderstand the quote completely. Heart adds more than twice the damage that bfury does, while costing the same. That's all there is to it. It's NOT a tankitem, it's purely for +dps. Only bad players try to stack survival on CK since his best DPS build incorporates only tankitems already.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 11:07 AM   #34
zaphodbrx99
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,101
zaphodbrx99 is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lollypatrolly View Post
Pointless wall of text based on you misunderstand the quote completely. Heart adds more than twice the damage that bfury does, while costing the same. That's all there is to it. It's NOT a tankitem, it's purely for +dps. Only bad players try to stack survival on CK since his best DPS build incorporates only tankitems already.
I've heard this argument before. Yeah the whole 'heart gives +40 dmg yay'. Str is simply a horrible inefficient way of getting damage. Yes if you have a str item that's also giving you something else important, such as BKB str treads satanic then it's kinda okay. What does heart give? Out of combat regeneration? WTF is the use of that?

Just for arguments sake let's say that CK at a certain level does 120 base dmg and desolator gives +30% extra damage on attack and you already have almost the equivalent of the +40 dmg on all the illusions. This is not counting the +60 dmg from deso, damage amplification for your allies, additional damage items that Ck has, the price differential and buildup of the two items, critical strike, etc.. Take those factors into account and it is plain clear why heart is such an inefficient choice.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 11:21 AM   #35
qwerty.m
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 244
qwerty.m is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lollypatrolly View Post
Pointless wall of text based on you misunderstand the quote completely. Heart adds more than twice the damage that bfury does, while costing the same. That's all there is to it. It's NOT a tankitem, it's purely for +dps. Only bad players try to stack survival on CK since his best DPS build incorporates only tankitems already.
-_- dude wtf are you talking about? If anyone is misunderstanding, it is definitely you. Since when does heart give 2x more damage than bfury. Since when do they cost the same? Heart is not a tank item but a dps item? -__-?? L2P before commenting. He was merely showing that there is no use tanking it up on a strength dps hero if your output dps sucks.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 11:24 AM   #36
Esper
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 912
Esper is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

I tried both builds even the one with BF and everyone of them work fine.

At the beginning I tried the improved-illusions tactic. This build is "okay". Like it was stated before CK isnīt the kind of normal illusions user and therefore it is playable, but not as good as it should be in theory.

The second build was the normal raw-dmg/DPS-build. It works, too. You feel like you are Sven, running around and make so much damage that it isnīt funny anymore.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 11:39 AM   #37
random.org
Member
 
random.org's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 525
random.org is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Quote:
Originally Posted by qwerty.m View Post
Wise words indeed my friend. I too feel reluctant to go manta since its costly build up price. Though MS IAS and agi ain't too bad, it just doesn't give raw damage. Is battlefury any good? Everyone i play with try their best to avoid battlefury claiming its a noob pubbers item on every melee hero whose name isn't Kunkka.
then I'm a noob, I play Mort with Bfury too

build I prefer: str treads/bottle/bracers/armlet/hot/cuirass/gg
 
Old 06-04-2010, 11:40 AM   #38
Lollypatrolly
Member
 
Lollypatrolly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,097
Lollypatrolly is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Do I really need to spoonfeed it to you imbeciles?

Heart adds 40*4 damage = 160 damage in at least half the fights. The few clashes you do without ulti you do 25 less damage.

This is not even taking into account illusion and DD runes which further amplifies the effect of STR items.

I'm comparing it to bfury now, not deso. Deso may win out in terms of sheer DPS at a certain stage of the game, I haven't done any calcs on it. But getting a bfury is beyond retarded since it's outclassed by Heart in every aspect.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 11:53 AM   #39
zaphodbrx99
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,101
zaphodbrx99 is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lollypatrolly View Post
I'm comparing it to bfury now, not deso. Deso may win out in terms of sheer DPS at a certain stage of the game, I haven't done any calcs on it. But getting a bfury is beyond retarded since it's outclassed by every single damage item.
A.k.a I don't know how to do math.

BF gives 35% cleave that is pure damage. So provided you are hitting one additional hero with cleave, you are doing 35% pure damage extra, which is like 50-70% additional damage that stacks fully with critical strikes. This outclasses every single damage item in the game by a significant margin. Even if you are hitting just one additional target 50% of the time it still is on par with other damage items. This is not even considering the enigma/magnus kind of situations where a BF is worth more than two divine rapiers.

Not to mention that it's damage to gold ratio is really good and regen is just a plus. CK can hit huge critical strikes because his +100 damage from reality gets critical'd as well, so they obviously go very well with splash.
 
Old 06-04-2010, 12:21 PM   #40
Lollypatrolly
Member
 
Lollypatrolly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,097
Lollypatrolly is offline
Default Re: Chaos Knight Build
Did you find this post helpful? Yes | No

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphodbrx99 View Post
A.k.a I don't know how to do math.

BF gives 35% cleave that is pure damage. So provided you are hitting one additional hero with cleave, you are doing 35% pure damage extra, which is like 50-70% additional damage that stacks fully with critical strikes. This outclasses every single damage item in the game by a significant margin. Even if you are hitting just one additional target 50% of the time it still is on par with other damage items. This is not even considering the enigma/magnus kind of situations where a BF is worth more than two divine rapiers.

Not to mention that it's damage to gold ratio is really good and regen is just a plus. CK can hit huge critical strikes because his +100 damage from reality gets critical'd as well, so they obviously go very well with splash.
Noobgames if you can hit even one hero with the splash without enigma / magnus. Yes, bfury is good even on NA if you get a perfect magna ult, that's not what we're debating here because it's so specific it doesn't belong in a discussion about the hero in general.

Bottom line, bfury adds +65 damage and that's it. The cleave is completely insignificant if you don't have enigma / magnus / seer.

Let's take a MUCH more likely scenario than you hitting even one hero with the cleave for more than a hit: You find a DD rune and bottle it. Now, your heart provides you +320 damage instead of +65 damage from battlefury. That's more than a rapier, and it happens WAY more frequently than your bfury splash.
 
Closed Thread
  Defense of the Ancients Game Strategy


Forum Jump

Thread Tools