Join Date: Jun 2009
Re: Dota Vs LoL Vs HoN
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I can only tell you about hon, i didnt try out lol.
The netcode and lobby implementation is plain good.
You can filter out games you dont like, you can easily change teams once youre inside the game, there are different features that allow you to have a fair game (ill elaborate on this later on) and you dont have any delay while playing, no 250ms bnet delay, no 100ms LC delay.
Right now only the host himself has that luxury (in the warcraft 3 environment).
Having no delay is a big + for gameplay.
Leavers are almost 100% absent, due to accounts having "personal rating"s.
If you win a game, you gain points according to the enemy teams strength when compared to yours, if you lose the game your points drop.
If you leave a game, the remaining players are most likely to lose the game, thus you will lose some points as soon as their game finishes.
Everyone cares about ladder like points, thus they dont wanna leave and let their team lose.
If they see that they will lose the game anyways, they can vote to forfeit, this will end the game and exchange points as if they lost normally, speeding things up further.
Add to this that everyone can look into your stats (how many em you played, how many times you left etc), and you have almost 100% leaver protection.
I mentioned earlier that fair games are easily achieved.
This is due to the host being able to auto-balance the teams in the lobby, they are distributed into the two teams according to their personal ratings.
There is a an indicator that shows how high the chances are for both teams winning, this is calculated via the personal ratings.
Ofc the indicator is not really gonna be right, but you can auto-balance to reach a 50-50 situation, which is almost always a fair fight at least.
I can only speak for myself, but from 1700 onward, games started reaching high levels, with people buying wards on their own, babysitting etc, everything was involved.
Everyone starts with 1500 personal rating, the hosts normally would open games with titles like "ap 1700+" etc, therefore only 1700+ players join the game, assuring that only better players join the game.
If someone else joins the game you can kick him ofc (if he doesnt match 1700 for example).
If two mates join, the host can lock them, assuring that they stay in the same team even if the host auto-balances the teams.
The game then tries to balance the teams according to their personal rating, taking into account that the two mates have to be in the same team.
This is what makes the lobby really fantastic.
Lets come to gameplay.
Hon has some obvious advantages over the warcraft 3 engine.
You can bind your keys to whatever you like and you can bind your inventory slots to buttons without having to rely on third party programs.
The buy mechanic is very good.
If you press b (or whatever you bound it to), the buy menu opens and you can buy things while you still have an eye on your lane.
This is extremely simple and user friendly, in dota you cant do this due to the wc3 engine limitation.
You can achieve the same by binding all shops to numbers, but it aint user friendly, especially in light of... thats my next point.
The buy menu is extremely well coordinated.
There are two lines of tabs inside the menu, on the left side are the items, on the right side are the recipes.
On top are the cheaper items, on the bottom are the expensive ones.
This makes for a nice experience during the buying-ordeal while in lane, as you just open the buy menu, you want some consumables, you know they are on the left side as they are no recipes, and they are most likely gonna be on the topmost tab, and voila there they are.
Even without much experience you can easily find your stuff, making it user friendly especially for new players.
If you need a month to memorize all the locations in dota, you will only need a day in hon.
Another good feature is, if you choose the recipe you want (after opening the correct tab on the right side), it will show you which components it needs to be built.
You can now buy the components from the left tab as you would do in dota but you can also press on the components inside the recipe in order to buy them (if you have enough gold).
There you can see how many components you already have and which ones are missing to complete the recipe, then you just buy the missing one from there and youre ready to go.
The only thing i was missing, was auto completing the recipe, if you did buy the components from inside the recipe window (instead of buying the components from the left tab).
If youre inside the recipe window and buy the components from there, youre going to want to build that recipe right?
Seems like they didnt think this was the case, because they did put in the recipe once again, a recipe in the recipe so to speak.
This doesnt make any sense and is tedious.
I didnt list this under contra because dota doesnt have such a feature anyways (the recipe window etc), but its some salt on an otherwise delicous cake.
The graphics look smudgy and unclear, especially in teamfights, making it very hard figuring out who is who sometimes.
The scourge ground being as dark as some heroes, makes it especially hard to figure them out.
The graphics look different from dota, but from a gameplay point of view they are worse.
Some hero models are plain terrible. Why is this an issue?:
Many heroes have the same colour and even weapon making it hard to distinct against whom youre up against.
Most of the time i couldnt recognize those "terrible" models, and instead looked on their name to figure out who they were.
If youre going to gang someone, and cant figure out what hero they have got, ah its plain terrible i cant tell you how crappy this is.
Another thing is the map size.
The map size is either to small, or the heroes are too fast for the size changing gameplay dramatically.
You look at the minimap, everyone is in their lanes, you go gang someone.
You reach their lane (hidden in the woods), another look on the minimap, everyone still on their lane, good they didnt notice.
You initiate the fight and the fight takes, lets say 10-20 seconds (including some juking etc), and boom their teammates are already here.
5 seconds later your teammates are there too and its a teamfight already.
This will happen very often in Hon due to the mapsize being so small when compared to their movespeeds.
This makes gangs very dangerous and overall increases gametime, due to... thats my next point.
No the map size being small isnt enough, death timers are extremely short for a map of this size.
Lets continue my scenario from earlier, the gang became a 5on5 teamfight.
Some heroes die and then the teamfight once again takes a little longer due to juking etc.
Before the teamfight is finished, the heroes that died first are already revived and back in the fight due to the map size being so small.
Lets change the scenario and assume team A killed team B pretty fast during the teamfight.
They go for the push and before they even reach their tower, everyone is alive and kicking again.
The ratio of hero lvl to deathtime is just plain off.
I had many games where the better team lost the game due to their levels being much higher.
Wait, what? They lost due to their levels being HIGHER? Yes you heard right.
Lvl 20ers would annihilate the enemy team (lvl 15ers) in the mid.
They go for the fast push (without regenerating), and before they reach the tower, everyone is alive again and manage to annihilate the lvl 20er team this time.
Now the lvl 15er team starts a push, reach the enemy tower, destroy the enemy tower, push a second lane, reach the tower, destroy the tower, oh finally the lvl 20ers finally revived.
The discrepancy between hero lvl to deathtime is just plain terrible, changing the game to a turtle fest on the weaker teams side.
Most of the time you wont notice this, because if a team dominates the other team, they will most likely vote for a forfeit in order not to lengthen the game too much and thats it, better team won.
But if they really stick to turtling, it becomes an hour+ long turtle fest.
If you watch some hon competitives, this is exactly what happens, they wont immediately forfeit, they will start turtling like crazy in order to annihilate the enemy team once (by luck, doesnt really matter how) and then counterpush the helpless better team, due to them being dead much longer if they get annihilated.
Another gameplay issue is the total imbalance between heroes. There are some heroes that are plain terrible and there are some which devastate an entire team no problem.
Lets take honīs "enigma". They took a hero that already is extremely powerful in dota due to the ultimate having a large aoe and disable time/damage (with midnight pulse together).
Take that ultimate and buff its aoe by 500 and voila, you have a gamebreaking hero.
Apply this to the scenario i mentioned earlier, the better team annihilates the weaker team, again and again, but cant push because they just revive to fast.
Then they get caught once during the push due to the enigma using the huge aoe ultimate, all in the same blackhole, even though they were standing worlds apart.
They get killed, counterpush, they dont revive fast enough because their deathtimer is much longer and once again weaker team wins.
Another example for this is honīs "void".
Take a hero that already is one of the hardest late game carries there are, buff his time jump (give it some damage on top of the slow) making his early game much better, further buff his stun by making it hit based instead of percentage based (4 hits = stun), buff the stun even further by giving it agi steal per hit (3 agility taken from enemy per hit, its like slarkīs third spell), make chronosphere aoe bigger (you can apply this to all aoe spells in hon, they will take a spell from dota and buff its aoe or damage (another example: rikis smoke )) and voila you have the hardest carry in hon with a good early game due to time jump dealing damage.
Gameplay is really ridiculous at times, especially if you stack some of those overpowered heroes.
If i give dota a 10/10 for gameplay, i would give hon 6/10.
Hon is definitely good, due to the good lobby and netcode implementation (personal rating, filtering games, auto-balancing teams etc),
the gameplay improvements (better shopmenu, binds for keys, no delay, no leavers).
Hons weak side is most definitely its graphic (i know many say its better, but i think they are sheep in the flock, without thinking for themselves), making it hard to follow the happening ingame.
Hero models are plain terrible, making it hard to distinct who is who.
The biggest flaw is hons gameplay/balancing when compared to dota, though.
I must admit however, that the pros are extremely advantageous and make life much easier and make for a much better game experience.
Im pretty sure however, that with the warcraft 3 engine limitation gone (valve meets icefrog), Icefrog is going to introduce all the obvious good stuff anyways (netcode/lobby, easy to bind keys, good shop, ladder etc), but he might go even further and implement some "make life even easier" stuff.
Couple the obvious good stuff with dotaīs better gameplay, and you already have the better game.
Couple that with the closest to fanbase developer ever and you will have a perfect game.