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Old 08-06-2010, 02:21 PM   #1
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Default Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon


I've been playing Eredar for three times already, and while I think he's not as powerful as Thrall or Gyrocopter, I think he is a fun hero to play. I don't really use the second skill as much, and while I do see the power of the first skill, it looks better on paper than in action. I was actually thinking 6.5 seconds was amazing in a team battle, but in reality it's just too short a time to really have any major effect in a team battle.

I tried Blink Dagger on him and tested whether it will work after Disruption, but it doesn't. If you were damaged by an enemy hero, even with the 2.5 seconds of Disruption, you wouldn't be able to blink. I tested that against a real opponent.

The second skill is also situational at best, although it will also aid in team clashes. The only skills I really respect and use a lot are his third skill and his ultimate, which really helps during ganks. I think Eredar should be played as a ganker, but since it's not really that easy to farm with him (he's a very potent lane hero, but after the early game I think he has to roam rather than farm to maximize his effectiveness) with his role, I think relatively cheap items should be attempted. Guinsoo is pretty difficult to attain, in my experience.

Dagon is one of the items I would get on him. It's very effective with the poison stacking and the Purge, and Dagon's a great way to reduce the enemy hero's life so that Purge and Poison can do their damage most effectively.

What items have you gotten on him?
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Old 08-06-2010, 02:40 PM   #2
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

I'd say dagger is a must. It worked after disruption for me when I tried it, and dagger really does solve his main problem: mobility. After that it's all pretty open, you could go for DPS through armor reduction. Deso and AC would obviously be the logical choice for this route. You could also go for a more support-ish route with the previously mentioned guinsoo. Euls also fits nicely into this role. Orchid is a very nice choice for both routes, since it synergizes well with your ulti, gives you a semi-disable, and also improves your dps by a lot. I usually find myself going for the DPS route. The ideal final itembuild would be: BoT, AC, deso, Orchid, Manta, and depending on your enemies Shivas (armor reduction guys), Guinsoos (nasty dps carry owning you in spite of disruption), or a final dps item for the squishy guys.
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Old 08-06-2010, 02:42 PM   #3
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

i like sheepstick along with PT and stick. dagger sounds good.
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Old 08-06-2010, 02:45 PM   #4
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

mostly survival items at first, very squishy. his 2nd skill is in my opinion his most powerful spell. and his 1st skill is a placing spell at early game, and anti-carry at late game. 3rd skill is a unique dot with exponential damage growth more powerful than bb's if properly casted. and of course a better version of purge.

he is a very broken hero, and most his spells have very low mana cost. all he needs is proper survival gear. vanguard, meka and arcane boots is my usual item build, with magic wand and some tp's
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Old 08-06-2010, 02:49 PM   #5
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

-i would orchid if ever using disruption on yourself is used to push, using the silence and extra damage to amplify your skills further, and extra aspd.
-sheepstick for obvious reasons
-dagon maybe? for the extra kick into the nukes
-shivas(?) armor and nuke
-skad maybe? for more slow and easier to land spells [especially shadow poison]
-treads for boots. stats help him better than the replenish from arcane. you could sell treads for BoT later.

many other items would be great but these were the first to come to mind. they ARE expensive but im guessing your question implies the 'dream build'






e: how is he broken?
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Old 08-06-2010, 02:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

Dagger aids in the placement of his ultimate. I think he's better off not close to the clashes, since his poison has great range. He could spam his poison during clashes away from danger after he Purges the carry or an important enemy hero. What I meant was doing Disruption on yourself during enemy ganks. It doesn't work, although I really don't know why. When you come out from the Disruption, the dagger is still disabled (even though it shouldn't).
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Old 08-06-2010, 03:05 PM   #7
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

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Originally Posted by physics223 View Post
Dagger aids in the placement of his ultimate. I think he's better off not close to the clashes, since his poison has great range. He could spam his poison during clashes away from danger after he Purges the carry or an important enemy hero. What I meant was doing Disruption on yourself during enemy ganks. It doesn't work, although I really don't know why. When you come out from the Disruption, the dagger is still disabled (even though it shouldn't).
dagger has a 3 sec cd after being attacked by heroes. its not a matter of leaving the map. Puck's phase shift lasts 3 seconds which is why you can use dagger immediately. OD's banish lasts 1/2/3/4 seconds so it can also be used by level 3 to dagger out.
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Old 08-06-2010, 03:17 PM   #8
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

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Originally Posted by darxide View Post
dagger has a 3 sec cd after being attacked by heroes. its not a matter of leaving the map. Puck's phase shift lasts 3 seconds which is why you can use dagger immediately. OD's banish lasts 1/2/3/4 seconds so it can also be used by level 3 to dagger out.
I'm going to try it again tomorrow and see if that works. It should, but it didn't work for me today.

Maybe it was just the lag. Can someone try it with friends and verify whether this is true? I was actually thinking of Blink as a first item of mine because of its mobility and aggressive ability, but it didn't work then.

Thanks.
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Old 08-06-2010, 03:59 PM   #9
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

It works, I've allready done it several times. the only time it failed was when I faced off against viper, and that was because of his ulti.
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Old 08-06-2010, 08:01 PM   #10
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

how bout euls
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Old 08-07-2010, 04:12 AM   #11
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

Why do people want to get Dagger? Disruption is incomparable to Phase Shift. Phase Shift has 6 second cooldown, Disruption has 16 second cooldown. It's not meant to be used on yourself to escape, it's meant to be used on enemies for extra DPS with the strongest illusions in the game. All his skills have ridiculous range, so there's not reason you should be in the middle of a battle.

For me, I just rush a Guinsoo, but I always get it on casters that I'm not really sure what to get. The void stone helps with his mana problems early-mid game a lot.
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Old 08-07-2010, 04:17 AM   #12
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

i fucking hate playing against this motherfucker
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Old 08-07-2010, 04:58 AM   #13
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

Just make sure U disrupt yourself after being attacked like 0.3-4 sec

to ensure an escape
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Old 08-07-2010, 05:32 AM   #14
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

Imo eredar is the fairly underpowered in comparison to the other 3 heros introduced. His skill set for the most part seems randomly put together without any sort of "synergy" besides being able to use to spam them. This hero looks tough on paper, but he lacks a "disable" and has problems staying alive. i dont see him joining any kind of line up soon.
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Old 08-07-2010, 01:00 PM   #15
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

arcaneboots/2xbracer/guinso/linken-bkb/shiva/
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Old 08-07-2010, 01:06 PM   #16
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

i would go for:
guinsoo- self explanatory
Linken - to solve his survival ability problems
Dagon - for some skill-combos
Orchid - for some Amplified-Skill-combo
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Old 08-07-2010, 02:03 PM   #17
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

Force Staff is an absolutely good item on him. Purge + Force Staff bam.
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Old 08-07-2010, 03:32 PM   #18
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

I tried Blink Dagger once more. Coupled with Dagon, my run with Eredar was amazing. I could chase enemies with Purge, and I could escape with Disruption. I finally broke my string of mediocre games with a 20-2 K/D ratio.

I do agree he has the weakest synergy among the four heroes, however. I realized Io was a damn powerful hero when I played with a capable user of him. He's balanced, but by God he's one of the best support heroes I've seen. Eredar is somewhat the questionable hero in this release (Gyrocopter scales decently, and Thrall is just a great hero), but he's fun to play with. He won't be used in competitive gaming since his two skills are very situational, but he's a fun hero.
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:27 PM   #19
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

You guys are obviously playing it wrong because from the new 4 heroes only wisp is more powerful then him.Srsly how can anyone say that he doesn't fit in any lineup when he can fit in ANY lineup.Disruption as his main spell which makes him so enjoyable to play can be used in so many situations that i cant even begin to recount them.Thrall, while may seem good on paper is actually complete garbage(kinetic field actually have a 1.2 sec time until it activates and its so easy to run out of it).About Gyrocopter, the fail wannabe carry, he is a mediocore ganker but not even near a carry(in a real game)

My build is Dagger,Guinsoo,Manta and with this i can pretty much support and carry (even initiate if needed!)
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:36 PM   #20
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

In pubs I normally go AB->(bracer)->Dagon->dagger/Hex/Deso/Skadi depending on how well it goes.
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:49 PM   #21
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

i usualy make arcane boots , hex or treads and linken
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Old 08-08-2010, 02:59 AM   #22
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

i still can't agree with you about him being inferior to all the new heroes.
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Old 08-09-2010, 03:35 AM   #23
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

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i still can't agree with you about him being inferior to all the new heroes.
Thrall is a great hero. Sure, there may be a 1.2 second delay, but if you're chasing heroes and you have someone with you, he's quite powerful.

I think it's all personal taste, but among them Eredar has the least synergy. I like him most among the new heroes, though.
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Old 08-09-2010, 07:58 AM   #24
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

A rushed BoT with Linken's follow up is what I've used the last few games, it allows you to keep up with opponents to add multiple stacks of poison. Early game I make Wand and BoT, then Pers -> Linkens. If you are farming well the Void Stone (which I buy first) could easily become a Guinsoo.

At first Eredar seems like a solid hero but people are already starting to expertly dodge the poison stacks and without a solid disable he really has a hard time landing multiple stacks. Hex, Orchid, maybe Necro might be useless. Shiva would be good to keep enemies nearby for poison stacks.
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Old 08-09-2010, 10:03 AM   #25
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

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A rushed BoT with Linken's follow up is what I've used the last few games, it allows you to keep up with opponents to add multiple stacks of poison. Early game I make Wand and BoT, then Pers -> Linkens. If you are farming well the Void Stone (which I buy first) could easily become a Guinsoo.

At first Eredar seems like a solid hero but people are already starting to expertly dodge the poison stacks and without a solid disable he really has a hard time landing multiple stacks. Hex, Orchid, maybe Necro might be useless. Shiva would be good to keep enemies nearby for poison stacks.
I totally support that second paragraph of yours. Most get hit by one, maybe two, but while he's great during the laning phase as he pushes the heroes out of the creepwave, the laning phase doesn't really last too long, and a well-planned gank will more often than not kill him. Aside from the purge he doesn't really have a solid disable, and if he couldn't get blink in some time the game will be hell for him. His last hitting isn't top of the line, although it's good, but he often gets outfarmed by other heroes.

Thrall's just a solid hero and Gyrocopter as well. Io's one of the best support heroes made in DotA. Eredar is a fun hero to play.
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Old 08-09-2010, 05:28 PM   #26
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

i got necro3 first time i used him and it worked nicely with his ult. on a side tangent, his stupid shadow poison is the most laughably imba fb skill i ever seen.
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Old 08-09-2010, 06:20 PM   #27
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

I actually play the Demon differently. I don't get his poison but I max the other 2 skills (Disrupt and Amplify damage) and of course his Ulti.

With this build I usually go for Dagon and Orchids since damage is increased further due to the amplify skill. I even get him life leech since his normal attack hurts.

Early Game
Disrupt is kinda cheap mana wise and the CD is good that you can use it as a tool for harassing your enemy. Cast on the enemy hero and you deny him the hero exp/gold + you get in some hits from the illusions.


If you are having trouble landing an amp try doing it this way.
Time your disrupt when he's not between creeps .
When the hero has been disrupted quickly move behind him in doing so you can easily target him with amp.
Cast Amp when he reappears.
Cast Ulti

I haven't tried dagger but it sounds nice
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Old 08-09-2010, 06:30 PM   #28
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

haven't read all posts but anyways,,,

my usual item build is Phase, Manta, Diffusual blade,sheepstick/shiva's,,, that's it... cauz after this items, me and ma frnds are raxing...
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Old 08-09-2010, 06:51 PM   #29
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

I play him as a combat druid of sorts.

Arcane boots
Vanguard
Hood / Linkens
Deso
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Old 08-15-2010, 01:09 AM   #30
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

I know now how to play and play him well, at least for me. I rush Dagon as quickly as possible, and depending on the enemy's ability to gank will proceed to upgrading Dagon (I think two is enough, three max) or getting Blink. If I do well, I try to get Orchid.

That's it. Eredar's more of a farmer than a ganker, and since having an escape mechanism is more certain than being fatter with Vanguard, getting Orchid is already the end of the game. Amplify, Orchid, and Dagon hurts like hell.
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Old 08-15-2010, 01:29 AM   #31
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

guinso is good to him, what about diffusal?dobel purge haha
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Old 08-15-2010, 01:46 AM   #32
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

+damage work well with ultimate because slow helps landing hits. Anyway it's more important in many many case to aim well soul catcher than having amazing +dmg.

I noticed that manta was really strong on him coupled with a ghinsoo or an orchid (but paper hp)
Linkens is good due to the ganking nature of the hero + it synergize with manta images a bit.

I use to make PT/Orchid(if amazing early) else linkens/Manta and it's over, I don't think have lost a single pub with this hero. As orb I don't really know wich is the best, but satanic, diffusal and mjollnir seem to suck. Stygian is pretty but gives 0 survivability and only damage so imo scadi seems to be the only choice . With his low str I suggest building some +stats items like linkens and use manta on purged heroes, scadi or ghinsoo as final luxury.
Necronomicon ofc is welcomed if the true sight is needed + the summons will dps hard on a purged and soul catched unit (x2 nuke + mana burn + hits) Never tried but imo it can be core hence this hero can disable a bit and need HPs.


Dagger as 3 uses:
1) try to escape safely with the help of disrupt
2) come easily to contact after a long range purge
3) land low range soul catchers

Imo Dagger should be wanted if you are playing agressively and have already items to kill properly (examples: manta(+linkens), orchid(+ manta), dagon, necro)

Eredar is not a "farmer": 12s to kill a full creep wave assuming you hit everything and you don't waste 0,5/1s at each cast(4stack) is longer than a lot of heroes in the game. Io for example owns creep waves faster with less chances of missing last hits. In the other hand he is an average+ pusher with good last hiting potential.
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Old 08-15-2010, 01:50 AM   #33
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

treads urn vlads guinsoo
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Old 08-19-2010, 12:36 PM   #34
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

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+damage work well with ultimate because slow helps landing hits. Anyway it's more important in many many case to aim well soul catcher than having amazing +dmg.

I noticed that manta was really strong on him coupled with a ghinsoo or an orchid (but paper hp)
Linkens is good due to the ganking nature of the hero + it synergize with manta images a bit.

I use to make PT/Orchid(if amazing early) else linkens/Manta and it's over, I don't think have lost a single pub with this hero. As orb I don't really know wich is the best, but satanic, diffusal and mjollnir seem to suck. Stygian is pretty but gives 0 survivability and only damage so imo scadi seems to be the only choice . With his low str I suggest building some +stats items like linkens and use manta on purged heroes, scadi or ghinsoo as final luxury.
Necronomicon ofc is welcomed if the true sight is needed + the summons will dps hard on a purged and soul catched unit (x2 nuke + mana burn + hits) Never tried but imo it can be core hence this hero can disable a bit and need HPs.


Dagger as 3 uses:
1) try to escape safely with the help of disrupt
2) come easily to contact after a long range purge
3) land low range soul catchers

Imo Dagger should be wanted if you are playing agressively and have already items to kill properly (examples: manta(+linkens), orchid(+ manta), dagon, necro)

Eredar is not a "farmer": 12s to kill a full creep wave assuming you hit everything and you don't waste 0,5/1s at each cast(4stack) is longer than a lot of heroes in the game. Io for example owns creep waves faster with less chances of missing last hits. In the other hand he is an average+ pusher with good last hiting potential.
Eredar is not a farmer, I agree. It just takes him too long to do anything with a creep wave, which is why in most games wand-dagon-dagger is already enough. If it becomes prolonged I get Orchid, but that's it.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:07 PM   #35
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

i think skill 2 very useful because after u used it, it can make more damage if u hit at ur opponent, and woth item is Desolator and arcane boots (u'll need mana of course)..i always used it.
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Old 08-19-2010, 03:10 PM   #36
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

I agree with the above sentiments on shadow poison. At first it was great. But people have quickly adapted. It builds charges as fast as bristleback's quills, but is much easier to dodge. Getting shiva's to land one more poison stack doesn't really help since by then your poison is mostly shrugged off.

Arcane boots are bad on him. Just like they are bad on thrall. A hero with good int + int gain does much better with a voidstone, which also builds into items the hero actually needs. Treads or BoT for Eredar. Against semi-decent opponents I recommend skipping poison, like someone mentioned above.

Of the 4 new heroes, I find him the least fun and the least effective. Mostly due to his shadow poison being a subpar skill and the fact that soul catcher is randomly targetted.

For items I find linken or guinsoo to be a good first luxury depending on the needs of the game.
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Old 08-19-2010, 08:14 PM   #37
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

i still like euls >.< especially if youre not soloing/not farming well its great.

treads (phase can be ok too i guess) urn wand euls, then whatever, blink/hex idc. this is cheap, has great buildup for poison spam, some HP, MS to chase and you can take 2 heroes out in fights or to chase euls after disruption to rinse and repeat
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Old 08-20-2010, 03:47 PM   #38
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Default Re: Items on Eredar, Shadow Demon

Damn, I meant he was more of a ganker than a farmer.

I still think poison is great to prevent the enemy heroes from laning properly, but I agree he's the worst among the four heroes.
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