[item] Nathrezim Buckler - make it overpowered

[ItIsNight]

Main reason for remake is totaly useless of Nathrezim Buckler with 800 gold cost. It's becomes useful when you have Headress and Mekansm recipe ^_^ I always get it as a part of Mekansm.

old Nathrezim Buckler

Bought From:
Supportive Vestments

A powerful shield that imbues the bearer with the strength of heroes past.

Chain Mail (550)
Ironwood Branch (53)
Nathrezim Buckler recipe (200)
803


+5 armor
+2 all attributes
Armor Bonus (active)


* Armor Bonus (active) - grants +2 armor to all allies in 700 aoe, 25sec duration, 25sec cd, 10 manacost.

Chain Mail (550)
Circlet of Nobility (185)
735


+5 armor
+2 all attributes
Armor Aura

* Armor Aura - grants +2 armor to allied units in 900 AOE.
* Armor Aura is turnable heroes/all.
* Stacks with basilius-based armor aura.
* Doesn't stack with itself and Mekansm's armor aura.

Mekansm

Bought From:
Supportive Vestments

A glowing jewel formed out of assorted parts that somehow fit together perfectly, Mekansm protects its bearer from danger.

2300

+5 strengh
+5 agility
+5 intelligence
+5 armor
+3 armor aura
+4 regeneration aura
Heal (active)


* Armor Aura - grants +3 armor to allied units in 900 AOE.
* Armor Aura is turnable heroes/all.
* Stacks with basilius-based armor aura.
* Doesn't stack with itself and Mekansm's armor aura.
* Heal ability restores 250 health for all allied units in 750 AOE and no armor bonus. Costs 150 mana, and has a 45 seconds cooldown.

Advantages:
+ More higher stats bonus;
+ Can't be dispeled;
+ An alternative for basilius;
+ More easy to get - dont need a scroll, just very useful Circlet (Cost drops by 15 gold) or underused Ring of Protection and extra iroonwood branch (Cost +28);
+ More comfortable item because of aura: you dont need to click on it every 25 seconds with 10 manacost to get aura-like buff, lol.


Disadvantages:
- No one?

[DuskRaven]

))) like it. no so useful, but nice. t-up

[Dynes]

The +armor has lame manacost, lasting as long as the cooldown, use it when needed, t-d.

[Foede]

I don't mind the extra stat, or the removed recipe, but changing the +armor buff for an aura sounds like a bad idea.

It would set it a bit apart from Meka, it would clash with RoB/Vlad, and to rebalance the constant bonus, the armor value would be lowered.

[ItIsNight]

Aura is good variant. Look here:
...You up old Buckler to old Meka and get Heal ability. But now you cant get armor withour heal. Some confuse. And if you use it good, cd of Meka is twice-higher than duration of armor, but Buckler has equal timers. It's like crafting Hood without armor of Helm of IW.
With new buckler, it will be nice to make Meka get aura too, making it better on push. Don't need to wait and press heal after damage to increase your armor, and aura can be active always like on old buckler.

Originally Posted by Dynes

The +armor has lame manacost, lasting as long as the cooldown, use it when needed, t-d.

So fun to click on buckler every 25 sec with 10 manacos to get aura-like ability, isn't it? Just ON/OFF it.

My Suggestions is more cosmetic, then balance. And it's not based on wish to change something, but an idea to up old art, making him more comfortable. And to up meka a bit by the way.

[Foede]

But you haven't answered my arguments :/

It clashes with RoB/Vlad > We certainly don't need yet another cheap +armor aura

To rebalance the constant bonus, the armor value would be lowered > A constant effect is obviously better than one you must activate to affect nearby units, and again once the effect fades, so in order to mantain the current balance, the current effect will need some nerfing, which would make it even more weak than it already is.

[ItIsNight]

There are 2 variants i write in 1st post: stackable +2 aura/ unstackable +3 aura. Stackable is just cosmetic for comfortable using, unstackable as a variant to play fast-meka without basilius. I prefer 1st variant, because i like overbuffs.

Anyway, giving aura to this item means this aura on meka > better to have aura without activation heal.

[Wimpex]

why not, t-up

[LightningMouse]

For simplification purposes, it would be better for you to not remove one armor. Nathrezim Buckler IS overpowered, for the simple fact that chain mail is overpowered, and more complexly, because you won't want to upgrade it into a Mekansm for most team situations. In considering Nathrezim Buckler, you'll have to also consider X amount of other items, related or not, to avoid certain circumstances. Honestly, it would be beneficial to remove Nathrezim Buckler from the Mekansm concept entirely, in my imagination Mekansm is a Regenerator item, like what Heart of the Tarrasque is supposed to be, but with the added ability to heal team mates.

[ItIsNight]

LightningMouse, u r right, but current one isn't mid-or-late game item and not so useful as a stick/basil to keep slot for him.

I already had think about removing Buckler from Meka's recipe, but i have no concept for this option at the moment, so i suggest a light improvement.

[SanKakU]

how about instead of doing all that...which by the way isn't a bad idea...

we do like this:
make current mekansm not have the healing thing anymore. it should just combine the current functions of the items that make it up. nothing new. significantly lower the recipe cost. maybe slight buff to stats.

then, we do this...
when using magic stick, if user also has mekansm...then it'll do the heal that mekansm used to do. but it does it according to your charges. and maybe we could add in an upgrade for the mekansm to enhance magic stick even further...? just an idea. i think giving allies mana would be too strong though so probably just hp to them through the wand/stick and mana just to the user of the stick/wand.

[SpiderPig]

t-up

[Dr_JP]

Quick point of view:

• Nathrezim Buckler is what piss me off in order to build Mekansm.
• The +5 armor are really good when physical attacks become more importants. In the other hand, Mekansm are better the earlier it has been gotten.
• It makes Mekans price too high.
• Armor bonus, as an active ability, is quite better because you can controll it fully(its cooldown indicates that)
• Mekansm (and Nathrezim Buckler too) can be used to push, so the heal/armor together work with synergy (and toogleble +2 armor doesn't change anything IMO)
• I see no reason to +1 all stat (almost no difference)

Suggestion:

• Replace Chainmail for Ring of Protection (better build path, now present only at one recipe).
  IT'S DIFFERENT FROM BASILLUS: ARMOR AND STATS (AURA OR AOE BUFF DOESN'T MATTER) INSTEAD OF ARMOR AND MANA REGEN!!!
• Then we'd got +3 armor for Nathrezim Bucler, and recipe cost of 300 to balance: with a total cost 528.
  IT DOESN'T MATTER IF ROB AND BUCKLER HAVE ALMOST SAME PRICE: THEY ARE ONLY COMPOUNDS OF VERY DIFFERENT RECIPES!!!
• Plz, keep the armor bonus like the current: active it only when you want. It should grant +2 bonus armor (total of +5).
  IN THIS CASE, AURA OF AOE BUFF ARE THE SAME THING: I'D RATHER AOE BUFF FOR TRADICIONAL PURPOSES, PROBABLY!

That way, Nathrezim Buckler would be much better (275 gold less are important at early game), and Mekansm with bit more than 2000 gold would be really nice.
ALREADY SAID WHY THERE'S NO PROBLEM IF A 500 GOLD ITEM GRANTS TO YOU +3 ARMOR (MORE +2 ARMOR IF ACTIVATED) WHILE THERE'S ROB THAT GRANTS YOU +3 ARMOR AURA AND MANA REGEN!
-300 TO MEKANSM TOTAL COST WOULD BE GOOD, AND 900 GOLD RECIPE IS NECESSARY BECAUSE OF GREAT DIFFERENCE THE ACTIVE HEALING MEANS!

[ItIsNight]

Originally Posted by Dr_JP

- Replace Chainmail for Ring of Protection (better build path, now present only at one recipe).
- Then we'd got +3 armor for Nathrezim Bucler, and recipe cost of 300 to balance: with a total cost 528.

No, it will be too similar to basilius to get AOE +armor from ring and 500 total cost. But if you want, you can create topic and suggesse to replace nathrezim buckler to basil in meka's recipe.

Originally Posted by Dr_JP

Plz, keep the armor bonus like the current: active it only when you want. It should grant +2 bonus armor (total of +5).

Look at 1st post one more time: aura is toggleable, giving you ability to get on/off bonus to nearby creeps. No need to active ability, which lasts 25 sec when you can't off it. Also current buff is dispelable > it's a nice way to buff item.

Originally Posted by Dr_JP

That way, Nathrezim Buckler would be much better (275 gold less are important at early game), and Mekansm with bit more than 2000 gold would be really nice.

There are 500-gold basil and next armor+ art must be with other cost. Also Mekansm is a 2000g is like similar to 2300g coz only his recipe is hard to get early.