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Old 08-11-2010, 07:37 AM   #1
ZtrifeX
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Default The Best Build for Balanar


I am having a hard time making the most efficient item build for Balanar late game. (Around 30-40 mins) I have a lot of money around 2k-3.5k but I don't know where to invest and i think it costs me my game. Can you help me?

This is my usual Item build at the start of the game
1.courier
2. a tanggo
3. two clarity pots
4. and the item with tree chop

Around 10- 15 mins of the game
1. power treads
2.tree chop
3. bottle

after that usually I make Aghanims or if there are too much disablers bkb.
then I get stuck. And when their carry gets strong I don't know what to use.
In short I want a general finishing Item.
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:43 AM   #2
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

I really like Orb of Venom on him. I played him twice in 6.68 and I went this:
Boots
Wand
OoV
Boots -> Treads
Non-stop ganking
Aghanim's
Skadi.

Gank during night, farm during day. I used my ult whenever it was off cooldown, except when there was a teamfight coming up (your team is gonna push or something, also partially intuition).
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:48 AM   #3
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Vlads - S&Y - basher - HoT
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:54 AM   #4
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivirland View Post
I really like Orb of Venom on him. I played him twice in 6.68 and I went this:
Boots
Wand
OoV
Boots -> Treads
Non-stop ganking
Aghanim's
Skadi.

Gank during night, farm during day. I used my ult whenever it was off cooldown, except when there was a teamfight coming up (your team is gonna push or something, also partially intuition).
orb of venom is quite good. but not sure if I'm going to build skadi. My usual problem is when they build manta. he's usually useless. thanks
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Old 08-11-2010, 07:56 AM   #5
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appleware View Post
Vlads - S&Y - basher - HoT
Tried Basher also It's fine. thanks
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:00 AM   #6
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZtrifeX View Post
orb of venom is quite good. but not sure if I'm going to build skadi. My usual problem is when they build manta. he's usually useless. thanks
You should stop them from building manta, or at least delay it a lot. If they have like a Drow or a Dusa, just keep ganking them and delay their items, then your job is done and the main carry can take over.
By the way, Armlet also is a pretty good item on him, but then you'll need to pick up some regen.
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:00 AM   #7
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Shrug. You aren't supposed to scale that well into late game. I'd try a battlefury + BKB if you are facing manta heroes. Orb of venom is solid but leave it as it is. If you can rush dagon after bottle it can be surprisingly effective (its very hard for agility carries to build up those manta linkens type items when you are able to insta glib them every battle/gank.)

Don't make sange yasha, don't make HoT.

Top DPS item is Desolator for him.
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:11 AM   #8
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Yeah Armlet is good coupled with dominator.
Well Usually it ends when I have Aghanims or Basher or BKB but sometimes when I have Idiot allies that make them build Manta. I usually have a hard time.
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:11 AM   #9
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

ignore most of these folks.

best dps build on him is dual hammers: basher and mjollnir. Nothing beats that.
then aghanim as a luxury, since late game ganks are surprisingly effective when heroes have to spend ages respawning.

Also use ult pretty much whenever you can. Day/night cycles so quickly now that nothing is lost while doing that.

armlet/deso/bkb kind of things don't really work that great on him. He has a different playstyle than straightforward charging in and trying to deal dmg in a few seconds. ( eg. like lycan,RK, ursa ). Also the fact that they have a bad build and he doesn't farm that well. You can't really build bkb first on balanar because then he'd sorely lack dmg ( bkb is really questionable on any hero with a silence and it's very redundant on nightstalker with his perma haste- I have dodged dozens of light strike arrays, fissures, thunder claps etc. simply by looking at the cast animation and moving out of the way ).

Basher mjollnir are cheap, cost effective and generally the best items for him. Mjollnir btw is one of the best counters to manta style. Just put the lightning shield on and it owns illusions big time. Plus, chain lightning.
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:13 AM   #10
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

MKB is much better than a basher. Bkb is almost always a must in most games, and you don't really need agahim's on him.
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:14 AM   #11
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

yup I know that I shouldn't build those two tried and tested.(S&Y, HoT) Balanar has a high str gain. Usually at lvl 18 he has around 1700 hp-2000 hp
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:16 AM   #12
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Why Cast it everytime During the day? Arent you making the day longer?
I usually cast it If there is going to be a gank or clash. At Night I always cast it. to make the night longer.
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:20 AM   #13
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Quote:
Originally Posted by kakaboo View Post
MKB is much better than a basher. Bkb is almost always a must in most games, and you don't really need agahim's on him.
I beg to disagree. It takes too long to build. I would rather make Battle fury than mkb.

sorry for using Aghanims early on. I'm kinda the aggresive type / greedy haha..
And when I'm with my brothers we are usually ganking.
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:20 AM   #14
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

^That is the proper way to play him.

Mjolliers is subpar, he doesn't lack in attackspeed, he lacks in damage.

Armlet is solid, couple it with a vanguard + wand + bottle and you are impossible to kill.
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:23 AM   #15
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

PT Agha Wand Bottle CB Cuirass
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:24 AM   #16
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuban-communist View Post
^That is the proper way to play him.

Mjolliers is subpar, he doesn't lack in attackspeed, he lacks in damage.

Armlet is solid, couple it with a vanguard + wand + bottle and you are impossible to kill.
doesn't really like vanguard for him since he has a high armor. But its still good haha
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:27 AM   #17
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuban-communist View Post
^That is the proper way to play him.

Mjolliers is subpar, he doesn't lack in attackspeed, he lacks in damage.

Armlet is solid, couple it with a vanguard + wand + bottle and you are impossible to kill.
/thread
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:36 AM   #18
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuban-communist View Post
Mjolliers is subpar, he doesn't lack in attackspeed, he lacks in damage.

Armlet is solid, couple it with a vanguard + wand + bottle and you are impossible to kill.
Ofc that's because you don't have a clue about mjollnir.
Mjollnir is not made to 'give attackspeed' to those who lack it. It is made on those with already very high attackspeed but low dmg because it is the most cost effective dps item for them ( think alchemist, slayer, troll, windrunner ).

If you want him to be 'impossible to kill', why make armlet rather than 2 more tanking items? Armlet is the exact opposite of a survival item.
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Old 08-11-2010, 08:42 AM   #19
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Quote:
Originally Posted by zaphodbrx99 View Post
Ofc that's because you don't have a clue about mjollnir.
Mjollnir is not made to 'give attackspeed' to those who lack it. It is made on those with already very high attackspeed but low dmg because it is the most cost effective dps item for them ( think alchemist, slayer, troll, windrunner ).

If you want him to be 'impossible to kill', why make armlet rather than 2 more tanking items? Armlet is the exact opposite of a survival item.
Got that right Armlet is not a survival item. he's just saying that it synergies well with vanguard. but for me It synergies better with dominator turned satanic.

and your right about Mjolnir/Maelstrom that why i dont build Mjolnir for balanar because his base attack is already strong. ( thats why I'm recommending Mjolnir for Io)
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Old 08-11-2010, 09:47 AM   #20
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZtrifeX View Post
and your right about Mjolnir/Maelstrom that why i dont build Mjolnir for balanar because his base attack is already strong. ( thats why I'm recommending Mjolnir for Io)
are you contradicting yourself?? you agree with him and then say i dont agree...wtf
base attack strong? what difference does it make?

and finally recommending mjol for Io?? thats just ridiculous...dont ever try making io anything dps please
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Old 08-11-2010, 10:20 AM   #21
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Quote:
Originally Posted by ztrnxz View Post
are you contradicting yourself?? you agree with him and then say i dont agree...wtf
base attack strong? what difference does it make?

and finally recommending mjol for Io?? thats just ridiculous...dont ever try making io anything dps please
I'm pretty sure he meant that he doesn't need Mjollnir's damage since balanar already has a good base attack damage. Instead, he needs Mjollnir's Lightning Shield and Chain Lightning, which is highly effective on him since at night, he has a constant 75% IAS and another 70 from Mjollnir. He'll probably proc a shitload of lightnings and stuff. It's also the same on Io. It's not a bad item to build on Io, to be honest. I mean, who said Io can ONLY support when he can support AND deal damage at the same time?
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Old 08-11-2010, 11:07 AM   #22
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

nobody mentioned the obvious "nub build" that works almost every time and requires no thought.
that is bracer + bracer + treads + basher + hyperstone + hyperstone + deso + complete to cuirass.. (if it gets to that late....). honestly its very effective and very easy. i dont build basher on anyone BUT balanar, but it is great with him.
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Old 07-11-2012, 12:20 PM   #23
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

My items:
1.Sange&Yasha
2.Vladimir
3.Basher-)Abissyal
4.Mjolnnir
5.Tarrasque
6.Power Threads
max ms ,great atack speed , good damage , 4000hp
thats great no?
Try this......
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Old 07-12-2012, 12:19 AM   #24
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Quote:
Originally Posted by scaryDreamX View Post
Try this......
try reading the date
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Old 07-14-2012, 04:21 PM   #25
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

pt, basher, skadi, domi and cuirass(opt)..
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Old 07-14-2012, 06:42 PM   #26
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Phase, Heavens Halberd(basher), BKB(aghs), AC/Abyssal.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:25 PM   #27
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Read the date first.

HoT Light Basher is probably the most effective lategame item suite for NS.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:27 PM   #28
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Abyssal or halberd combined with HoT makes him a threat and counter to most heroes.

Early game, Phase and urn are mandatory. You can go vanguard too if you can get it early.
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Old 07-14-2012, 08:40 PM   #29
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Phase is actually less mandatory than one might think. Tranquil are a very effective alternative to them, though which one you buy will depend heavily upon the game in question.
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:00 PM   #30
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris View Post
Phase is actually less mandatory than one might think. Tranquil are a very effective alternative to them, though which one you buy will depend heavily upon the game in question.
No, the dmg is extremely useful early game, and the phase ability is really very good when chasing...
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:02 PM   #31
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apokita View Post
No, the dmg is extremely useful early game, and the phase ability is really very good when chasing...
You obviously don't know what you're talking about so do yourself a favor and don't make useless posts.
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:39 PM   #32
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris View Post
Phase is actually less mandatory than one might think. Tranquil are a very effective alternative to them, though which one you buy will depend heavily upon the game in question.
I find tranquil to be less desirable when you have urn, however if someone else in your team gets urn. Tranquil works.

I like phase boots personally too. So it can come to preference.

However you cannot ignore the phase ability when enemies will try to juke and block you when you are tower diving.
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Old 07-14-2012, 09:57 PM   #33
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

It's fairly obvious to me that the people blindly dismissing tranquil have never actually used it. It accelerates Urn and provides significantly more durable tower dives during the first night. The fact that they can also turn into Vlads Treads to facilitate a timing push is one of the most attractive characteristics about the build.
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Old 07-14-2012, 10:00 PM   #34
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris View Post
It's fairly obvious to me that the people blindly dismissing tranquil have never actually used it. It accelerates Urn and provides significantly more durable tower dives during the first night. The fact that they can also turn into Vlads Treads to facilitate a timing push is one of the most attractive characteristics about the build.
I do use tranquil frequently and i didn't dismiss it. I also think tranquil is pretty overpowered.

However i like phase more, still and i find urn to be sufficient for healing after ganks.
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Old 07-14-2012, 10:18 PM   #35
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris View Post
You obviously don't know what you're talking about so do yourself a favor and don't make useless posts.
Please go and try to use your tranquil boots when you are getting hitted by creeps/tower and your target is escaping because the 4sec of slow isn't enough because of your low dmg.

And with balanar at night a trip to fountain its extremely fast, don't took you 2/3mins, so it isn't so needed if you know what youre doing.
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Old 07-14-2012, 11:27 PM   #36
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apokita View Post
Please go and try to use your tranquil boots when you are getting hitted by creeps/tower and your target is escaping because the 4sec of slow isn't enough because of your low dmg.

And with balanar at night a trip to fountain its extremely fast, don't took you 2/3mins, so it isn't so needed if you know what youre doing.
I'm pondering, what hero actually takes 2/3 mins fountain trips?
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Old 07-14-2012, 11:34 PM   #37
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

If you're frequently going to the fountain on an NS for any reason other than dying you're a pretty big joke.

Access to Urn, Tranq, Bottle, Clarities should make fountain trips a rarity. Especially during the early stages of the game...



Looking at a typical NS build you can have:

Stout - 250
Tranq - 1025
Urn - 850
Total - 2125



Stout - 250
Phase - 1400
Urn - 850
Total - 2500


You're looking at a difference of about 10-14 CS by the time of the first night. That's a pretty big difference when you consider that the first night come at roughly 6min game time.

I won't pretend that I don't like phase on NS. However with more precise movement you can easily navigate creepwaves with tranquil and they absorb significantly more damage when you're diving a tower. They are also sustainable regen unlike Urn, which can be very unreliable if the opposing team plays tight and TPs in response to ganks.
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Old 07-15-2012, 03:49 AM   #38
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apokita View Post
No, the dmg is extremely useful early game, and the phase ability is really very good when chasing...
if we will base it with dmg, you could, but think of it... instead of it, yes, I would say it is an optional, but I always get PT for him. tranquil is to be considered when the enemies are gankers and spammers for survivability. He has a passive skill when the night comes, phase is not needed.

for early items, I could consider urn, quelling, stout... later on, bottle.
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:02 AM   #39
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

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Originally Posted by Ex_Venomancer View Post
if we will base it with dmg, you could, but think of it... instead of it, yes, I would say it is an optional, but I always get PT for him. tranquil is to be considered when the enemies are gankers and spammers for survivability. He has a passive skill when the night comes, phase is not needed.

for early items, I could consider urn, quelling, stout... later on, bottle.
even with a yasha with the max passive balanar comes short of reaching max speed (i believe it's around 514). with phase boots balanar reaches max speed, and can phase through creeps to hit.

tranquil boots really depends on the players tastes, i personally dont have problems tanking towers with urn/stout shield; urn provides mana regen, urn+bottle means i never have to return to fountain

usually i rush aghanim (getting halberd faster for ursa/huskar), then i get halberd, armlet, deso/dominator/AC/BKB
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Old 07-15-2012, 05:08 PM   #40
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Default Re: The Best Build for Balanar

Wow. The forbidden technique itself.
Kuchiyose: Surredo Tensei!!!!

on topic, TB is great for it's cheapness. provides earlier diving capabilites, because at levels 6 to 9, your really spammable nuke is probably enough dps to take care of any softy.

makes urn useful too, in the sense that you can also use the spare heal for dealing killing damage or healing allies in dire situations, supposedly in response to enemy ganks.
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