Wex: IAS->MP regen

[Redeemed A.I.]

Imho Invoker has instances so he can dominate early game,use couple invokes max early to mid game and dominate late game with rain of Invokes.

What I don't understand however,is why is this logic applied wrong in wex?Why has an instance two mega late game passives,which are considered good only for dps carry type heroes?IAS synergizes terribly with the Wex skill tree,even with alacrity late game you'll prefer exort instead of wex.IMS is somewhat useful because it turns out great late game and can even be compared to the IMS of balanar in the night!

My previous suggestion for Quas was implemented.Quas then became USEFULL in and out of the laning stage changing from secondary heal to primary regen mechanism.
So why is not Wex buffed as well,when most players dislike using it?

I have thought a lot of possible remakes,but I think stable mp regen simply knocks out all the other remakes there can possibly be:

-easy to balance ALL game times
-ffs its mp regen,what is more useful than that on a spamer mage?

IAS from the other hand:

-is useless in the laning phase
-misguides people to buy orb procing items (sange and yasha,maelstrom) when Invoker needs protection and aghanim's.
-is even more useless late game than exort's plain dps increment
-sole purpose of its existence is the old Invoker's IAS instance and something to accompany IMS in its pathetic early game.



TL;DR

Remake Wex IMS+IAS to IMS+mp regen (e.g. 0.3 mp/sec per instance per level)
I will support ANY suggestion regarding IAS remake as long as it does not buff current useless passive.

[Heelz]

I love Invoker, and think he's the most elegantly designed hero in DotA. I wish I could say he was perfect, but I can't deny that Wex is currently flawed.

I've crunched the numbers before, and every level of Wex does less DPS than the same level of Exort. While it would be fun to see how the 3% IAS per level per instance would work out (from your last topic), this is probably a more practical solution in the long run.

Just to clarify, you want to keep the 1% movement bonus per level, correct? And replace the 2% IAS with a non-% mana regen bonus? I would support this, as it would make choosing which orb you want to "main" early on more competitive. Exort is naturally a great offensive orb, Quas is great for staying in lane early on. What does Wex have?

This would make Wex actually something to consider for laning, combined with constant use of EMP. Late game, it would still be useful for "recharging" after casting all your spells. Finally, it's thematically valid, because Wex deals with speed, electricity, and energy (mana).

What kind of numbers do you think would be balanced?

[Redeemed A.I.]

Yes,I support keeping the IMS for mid-late game purposes.

The mp should not be too high and also not inexistant.I think basilius-like mp leveling should be fine:

0.2 per level per instance.So in level 1-7 level full wex you have 0.6/1.2/1.8/2.4/3/3.6/4.2 mp/sec and also the current IMS.

Doesn't seem overpowered having a brilliance aura for yourself does it?And if you think about it,it does barely support late game meteor/tornado/icewall spamming,so you will use it mostly early-mid game for sustaining your basic spammability in a lane,or use it as a main regen after teamfight.

Of course as you have noticed,you can't have both hp AND mp regen at the same time.That means your Quas/wex will not work as a fountain replacement,because you can't have 3 of each

[ZeldaFreak75]

I would hate the IAS changed to mana regen because the concept of speed would be lost.

you got my T-up because IAS is useless in lane as you stated.

maelstrom is not bad on the current Wex invoker; you basically turned into the old school razor.

P.S. Click on my Wex near my sig for Wex skill buff.

[Redeemed A.I.]

Originally Posted by ZeldaFreak75

I would hate the IAS changed to mana regen because the concept of speed would be lost.

you got my T-up because IAS is useless in lane as you stated.

maelstrom is not bad on the current Wex invoker; you basically turned into the old school razor.

P.S. Click on my Wex near my sig for Wex skill buff.

There is no concept of attack speed.There never was.It is a filler sub ability that has no place for an invoker mage.It barely makes its way through alacrity,but you even like to activate exort instead of wex for further damage.

P.S. I did comment on your suggestion

[IvanHelsing]

I used to love playing wex invoker for the ms and the fun to use skills (i dislike meteor and forge spirit even though they're useful). However, i realized it sucks and i get pwnd playing it and started playing exort/quas. This remake would make the wex invoker an even better supporter, and give the wex/quas or quas/wex invoker great lanestaying in difficult lanes (quas already lets you survive, but you need mana and especially ms to get away from a gang). It's not my favourite remake idea because it screws the whole quas=str, wex=agi, exort=int thing, but it's better than the current skill. T-up.

[Shadow Fury]

I would rather Exort gave mana regen and Wex also gave armor, then:

QUAS = STR
WEX = AGI
EXORT = INT

[(TK)WhiteWolf]

T-UP to the mana regen.

The numbers looks fine. I really think that 0.3 per instace is well balanced. Finish with a 6.2 mana regen with a similar way as Quas(powerful early and weak late). Very interesting.

[Lycan]

Been suggested before and i've still been a fan of it since the beginning. Would also greatly "buff" his alacrity spells so even without the ias he can still "carry" with normal attacks when needed.

[Dark Rogue]

T-Down from me, sorry. He has a great Strength/Agility/Intelligence concept, and I always thought Mana regeneration is an overused concept. You might not agree with me, but that's my opinion.

[Redeemed A.I.]

Need more support.Any kind of answer towards wex will simply catch the attention of ICEFROG and that's what we want for next version.

Support wex change in any way!!(don't forget to comment on the idea though )

[willcruncher]

Could we just add mana regen instead change from AS? Invoker is not popular in competetive games, so that little buff shouldnt hurt.

[doomed2die]

Originally Posted by Kasad

There is no concept of attack speed.There never was.It is a filler sub ability that has no place for an invoker mage.It barely makes its way through alacrity,but you even like to activate exort instead of wex for further damage.

P.S. I did comment on your suggestion

The concept is SPEED! Not IAS lol.

Still, I'd love this but frankly Wex as it is, the concept is just so proper. Besides, past laning there's quite a few uses (MS rules!) and the skills are pretty useful. Frankly, wex/quas is the easiest way to survive. The skills, the bonuses, all are best for survival, and sometimes, especially with say cold snap, it's easiest to get kills (not to say that something like chaos meteor wouldn't be better) so...

T-null.

[(TK)WhiteWolf]

doomed,

we want to change the Wex useless IAS, this is completely useless, so even if we just buff MS and remove IAS would be a great buff to the orb.

[dismydevil]

I think this suggestion would totally discourage dps invoker. If vlads is changed to working on ranged heroes then I would really like to play dps invoker. Maybe if wex was changed to like 4% as and w/e ms or 5% as and no ms. He needs to be able to turn into a unstoppable machine late game. So maybe a agi gain buff and str gain buff will help with vlads of course and maybe a ranged cleave like battlefury for ranged heroes.

[Redeemed A.I.]

Slightly changed the tl;dr so people are not misguided.I keep the IMS but I change the IAS to mp regen.

[galuf]

actual Exort: Good damage but very slow base ms and AS.
actual Wex: Excellent chasing/escaping tool with useless laning IAS. Nice counterpart to base ms.
actual Quas: Imba regen. You are unnable to harass properly in lane phase. Bad MS for positionning and ganking/escaping.

Each balls have merits and flaws. Be a real baller and leave that balls where there are...

[Heelz]

Wex's MS gives little benefit during laning. All it does is bring your MS to that of an average hero. Not to mention you're not much of a threat when maining Wex early game.

[Green Yoshi]

T-Up

[~Maktor~]

if we keep buffing invoker like this, we'll have old invoker back.