[RESULTS!!] Epics & Legends Writing Battle III

[The Observer]

Originally Posted by Hikatsu Nia

yeah. but if you think about it. have an item hog the spot light, and the whole story falls apart.

mine didn't.

but the title just contradicts what i just said.

[Hikatsu Nia]

@ava: think about it. if you made the story call the item again and again. well, the story losses it's luster after the 5th use.

[-AvA-]

Originally Posted by Hikatsu Nia

@ava: think about it. if you made the story call the item again and again. well, the story losses it's luster after the 5th use.

So what your trying to say is if many writers use the same item in their stories that it will lose it's appeal?

[ether_chan]

Originally Posted by asam3

well the theme is about "the great forge" not about heroes.

so saying that it's elementary makes no sense because the only thing that is being judged is how good the two items that you choose can be incorporated to anyone, or rather, any hero combination that you choose.

in my case i focused on one hero, but it seems that using two heroes were a far easier choice to make.

well because maybe they used the battle statistics of games itself.

an attacker and a supporter, an attacker and a defender, or a supporter and a attacker.

something like that comes to mind if you read their entries again.

Asam,

I am completely aware of the theme, but my response was directed at Nia's statement, the one concerning Mortred and Shendy. I can't for the life of me, recall where I alluded to the theme in that post.

As for your spirited reaction to the word 'Elementary' I was merely quoting the words of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's most famous character, perhaps that was lost on you? I pray that it wasn't.

Nevertheless, because of the stern and hasty construction of your response I feel that your reply deserves a response from me, no matter how much you seem to be insinuating that the story we used showcased the characters rather than the items.

As far as I can ascertain, our entries do fulfill the parameters of this writing exercise, or at least I did and I can't really pass judgment on the work of the others since I have yet to read them, though I trust they did use two items as per the conditions of the competition. And isn't it, by using these items as critical plot devices we did accomplish the objectives laid out by the judges?

The items only have to play a key role in the story, the tale doesn't have to revolve around the items alone I think... Though perhaps one of the judges could enlighten us. Desu~

Also, I share the same sentiments with Nia. The items, while critical to the story, doesn't have to dominate it.

[The Observer]

Asam,

I am completely aware of the theme, but my response was directed at Nia's statement, the one concerning Mortred and Shendy. I can't for the life of me, recall where I alluded to the theme in that post.

I tl;dr'ed your post. i just said it was about weapons and not heroes cause you took that magina thing seriously.

As for your spirited reaction to the word 'Elementary' I was merely quoting the words of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's most famous character, perhaps that was lost on you? I pray that it wasn't.

I'm aware of sherlock holmes, and no, he didn't say that on the book, only of the movie. maybe you didn't know that.

Nevertheless, because of the stern and hasty construction of your response I feel that your reply deserves a response from me, no matter how much you seem to be insinuating that the story we used showcased the characters rather than the items.

yes it was hasty cause it tl;dr'ed it.

As far as I can ascertain, our entries do fulfill the parameters of this writing exercise, or at least I did and I can't really pass judgment on the work of the others since I have yet to read them, though I trust they did use two items as per the conditions of the competition. And isn't it, by using these items as critical plot devices we did the objectives laid out by the judges?

of course everyone made their stories with two items being the critical thing that turns it around. without the items it would've been boring yes. what i am just saying is that the theme is about items, and making a big deal about having two heroes(that, coincidentally are related to each other based on dota's lore) has nothing to do with the contest's battle for the battle would be based around how the items were used and not what kind of relation the characters, protagonist antagonist whatever, has.

The items only have to play a key role in the story, the tale doesn't have to revolve around the items alone I think... Though perhaps one of the judges could enlighten us. Desu~

read reply before this.

Also, I share the same sentiments with Nia. The items, while critical to the story, doesn't have to dominate it.

i was just pointing out that... uhhh nevermind.
you repeated your defense thrice now.

[Hikatsu Nia]

ether chan got my point.
i mean think of a story with 1700 words.
and the items (lets say desolator) gets called out 400 times.
the output would be. well, weird.

that's what i meant.

[Kriegskanzler]

(Deleted portion of post)

Now, as for the question at hand, which were started off by these questions:

Originally Posted by Hikatsu Nia

yeah. but if you think about it. have an item hog the spot light, and the whole story falls apart.

Originally Posted by ether_chan

The items only have to play a key role in the story, the tale doesn't have to revolve around the items alone I think... Though perhaps one of the judges could enlighten us. Desu~

The items, while critical to the story, doesn't have to dominate it.

I see your concern with this. The thing is, what is your perspective of "key role" exactly? Frostmourne had a key role in the The Frozen Throne. The Buster Sword also played a key role in Final Fantasy VII. Excalibur was also a key element in King Arthur. And yet, all of these items mentioned were never the story. It was all about the alliance against Ner'zhul, Cloud against Shin-Ra, Arthur against himself. While this competition certainly does not disallow these types of stories, well and in fact they are greatly appreciated, they certainly aren't the best use of the theme, are they?

Anyone familiar with the Ring from the Lord of the Rings? Or the Dagger of Time in Prince of Persia? And perhaps even the best example I can offer, the Soul Edge and the Soul Calibur in the Soul Calibur series? These are stories wherein the item itself is the plot, where all the persons involved, their actions and reactions, are all based on the main item. Without the Ring, Frodo and the rest never had to go to Mordor on such haste. Without the Dagger of Time, Nizam wouldn't be able to ascertain the vengeance he longed for. Without the Soul Edge and the Soul Calibur, the Azure Knight wouldn't have become Nightmare, nor Raphael yearning for revenge. These stories are those with the most ideal (not required, but ideal) use of the theme. Did these items dominate the story? In a sense, yes, but isn't that the challenge of this competition? It is up to the writer's insight and creativity to mold that "awkward" domination into a powerful, gripping story.

TL;DR version (although I recommend reading the main text so as not to misinterpret my words): While stories involving heroes instead of items as the main plot are not disallowed, stories having the items the central plot itself is the best way to go with this competition's theme.

Hope I've made myself clear with this rhetoric of mine.

Reminder: This viewpoint is allegedly false, at least according to Sandata. If you want to read his argument, please click here.

[Kriegskanzler]

.

UPDATE:

Added ether_chan's entry into the list of stories.

[Sandata]

Yare, yare. Some things never change. You're still unwilling to let people argue and debate. Don't mistake your influence as a power trip, Krieg. it may be your competition, but if you don't allow people to discuss, then they will not learn. Stop absorbing blows for everyone, it isn't helping. They weren't even mildly threatening banter yet.

There is a saying: If you do not allow the forge's fire to burn, the steel will come out soft.

Besides, your analysis of item relevance is wrong. What drove the soul calibur story is not the soul edge. It was what motivated the characters, true, but what is central to the story is not the blade, but the redemption of of the characters. What is central to the Lord of the Rings is not the One Ring, but the unification of races against the dark lord, the acceptance of the wandering reluctant prince as king of his realm, and the passover of elves to the rule of man. What is central in Prince of Persia is not the blade, but the growth of the prince in differentiating what he change from what he must change.

When items are important to motivate a story, they are called MacGuffins. Your analysis is wrong, especially because in the first paragraph, the scenarios you listed are examples of macguffins while going on to demonstrate the same in the second.

Literary Analysis lessons brought to you by: A guy who writes for a living.

[PuЪLiㄷEиəℳy#1]

I'm screwed! Barely three days left and I still haven't wrote an entry.

[willalwaybenoob]

Originally Posted by Sandata

Yare, yare. Some things never change. You're still unwilling to let people argue and debate. Don't mistake your influence as a power trip, Krieg. it may be your competition, but if you don't allow people to discuss, then they will not learn. Stop absorbing blows for everyone, it isn't helping. They weren't even mildly threatening banter yet.

There is a saying: If you do not allow the forge's fire to burn, the steel will come out soft.

Besides, your analysis of item relevance is wrong. What drove the soul calibur story is not the soul edge. It was what motivated the characters, true, but what is central to the story is not the blade, but the redemption of of the characters. What is central to the Lord of the Rings is not the One Ring, but the unification of races against the dark lord, the acceptance of the wandering reluctant prince as king of his realm, and the passover of elves to the rule of man. What is central in Prince of Persia is not the blade, but the growth of the prince in differentiating what he change from what he must change.

When items are important to motivate a story, they are called MacGuffins. Your analysis is wrong, especially because in the first paragraph, the scenarios you listed are examples of macguffins while going on to demonstrate the same in the second.

Literary Analysis lessons brought to you by: A guy who writes for a living.

Holy cow! You're a proffesional writer?

[Kriegskanzler]

Let me begin by saying: Welcome back, Sandata.

Now onward to my reply.

Let me make myself clear: No. I am not hindering a debate. I am merely attempting to start a sort of recessional, if you may. Once they've had cooler heads, then they can resume their brainstorming. I was never against it. In fact, I encourage it. However, when the tones seemed to change, I felt a small intervention was needed. That was it.

As for the next argument... well, I stand corrected then. My view about the stories may have been, as madeener put it, "tunneled."

And please, I exhort you not to misread my intervention as a "power trip." I never had power nor influence to begin with. People who "power trip" are only those people who've had power, influence or knowledge and use these to influence others' beliefs and viewpoints. If you think I do, then my alleged influence is apparently absent, at least from my perspective. ^^

[PuЪLiㄷEиəℳy#1]

Originally Posted by willalwaybenoob

Holy cow! You're a proffesional writer?

I probably should stick around here and learn from you!
I'm just a kid and I hope to be like you someday!

[Sandata]

I do not think this argument should continue, as it has a potential to grow into a "flame war". As such, I exhort the participants involved to settle down a bit, take a breather (sip of coffee, a cigar, whichever...), and go back to their discussion some time later when they have had cooler heads, regardless of them being already calm at this state.

Here's the thing: This is not a real-time discussion. You have absolutely 0 right to tell people to that this discussion should not continue simply because you feel it'll become a flamewar. People come and go in this forum and their opinions come along with them. You should let them continue discussing as they see fit. Regardless whether you mean well or not, understand that these writers look up to you. The mere fact that you 'thought' the discussion should stop would be enough for them to stop discussing.

That, I simply cannot abide by. It was a great discussion. One where asam3 - ridiculously untalented as he is - could have greatly benefited. If you truly thought that they would return with cooler heads anyway, then you shouldn't have said anything to begin with.

Besides, don't misappropriate yourself. You are influential in this part of the forums. Pretending otherwise doesn't make it any less true.

But hey! It's not like anyone's joined that's worth giving a glance over anyway...unless Madeener joined, or some of the 3-4 writers I actually enjoy in this part of the forum.

Sore ja.

[Green Yoshi]

Krieg's and Sandata's posts pretty interesting to read. Both seem so wise @@

[Kriegskanzler]

Some things don't change indeed.

Originally Posted by Sandata

You should let them continue discussing as they see fit. Regardless whether you mean well or not, understand that these writers look up to you. The mere fact that you 'thought' the discussion should stop would be enough for them to stop discussing.

I see. Very well then, retracting my statement. Deleting it wholly from that post.

Besides, don't misappropriate yourself. You are influential in this part of the forums. Pretending otherwise doesn't make it any less true.

Yes. I am allegedly influential. And pretending otherwise makes it true, at least to me. Pardon this behavior. It's a sort of defense mechanism, if you will. I never liked too much influence in the first place. People with influence tend to be right all the time, or at least according to the eyes of the not-so-influential, regardless of whether they were actually right or not. And in the chance they visibly become wrong, then they become wrong all the time.

But hey! It's not like anyone's joined that's worth giving a glance over anyway...unless Madeener joined, or some of the 3-4 writers I actually enjoy in this part of the forum.

I see. I am sorry you feel that way. However, I am not hindering you from this. After all, it is your opinion.

[willalwaybenoob]

For they are far more wiser than we, they have their own goal and purpose, while we are just mere kids messing around.

[Craxuan]

Indeed. I do know the '3-4 writers' he's talking about, it probably was back at DotA-Allstars. They are on a whole new level at that time, and now...? Couldn't imagine.

[Hikatsu Nia]

^ amen brother. amen.

BTW, sandata are you Filipino?
the word sandata means weapon in tagalog.

[Fire525]

But hey! It's not like anyone's joined that's worth giving a glance over anyway.

Your opinion I guess, but the way your sentence is worded, it seems like you've decided to write off the stories without even looking at them.

By the way, what sort of professional writing do you do? Do you write novels or...?
Just wondering because I'm interested in the field of professional writing as well.

Both of you have valid points, I personally think that the items in the first examples that Krieg gave are important for a brief period (not sure about FF though, I've never played it), whereas the items in the second example are important throughout the story, but there are other plots going on at the same time (Again, not sure about Soul Caliber, never played it).

PS: You seem to have a low view of most of our writing abilities (Not sure who the 3-4 people are, so I'll assume they are people who are now inactive), why not point out flaws you see. As a professional writer (this is intended with no sarcasm/irony), you obviously have a lot of experience, and any sort of constructive criticism helps untalented people become more talented.\

@Nia: Do you know why you have a little + next to your name in the users viewing this thread? Just wondering Lol.