[OVERHAUL] Best Silencer remake ever (Or not?)

[ItIsNight]

Nortrom, the Silencer








(MSI is ulti only)

Wandering Glaive - [W]

Throws an arcane glaive to a target location, dealing damage to all units in a path. After reaching target point glaive returns to Silencer, dealing half of damage (hit units twice when fly forvard and back).

Level 1 - 60 damage +100% of intellegence.
Level 2 - 85 damage +100% of intellegence.
Level 3 - 110 damage +100% of intellegence.
Level 4 - 135 damage +100% of intellegence.

Cooldown - 14/12/10/8 sec
Manacost - 80/120/160/200
Range - 800
Aoe - 225

subskill Teleport to Glaive - [T]
(Optional, most of users think it's a puck's one lol)

Teleports to last throwed arcane glaive, removing it. Active only when glaive is throwed.

Manacost - 100/90/80/70

1. Glaive model is "Abilities\Weapons\GlaiveMissile\GlaiveMissile.mdl " with 130% size
2. Glaive damage effect is "death" animation of "Abilities\Weapons\FaerieDragonMissile\FaerieDrago nMissile.mdl" (create'n'destroy)
3. Glaive speed is 833.33 (25 every 0.03 sec)
4. Teleport's effect for current and target points is "Abilities\Spells\Demon\DarkPortal\DarkPortalTarge t.mdl"

Arcane Shackles - [C]

Silencer damage all nearby enemies and slow them for 25% with spellbreakeable shackles for 10 seconds. Victim will break shackles if cast a spell.

Level 1 - 60 damage, break in 2 seconds after cast.
Level 2 - 120 damage, break in 3 seconds after cast.
Level 3 - 180 damage, break in 4 seconds after cast.
Level 4 - 240 damage, break in 5 seconds after cast.

Cooldown - 20 sec
Manacost - 100/125/150/175
Aoe - 450

THIS IS NOT A PUCK!!! THIS IS SPARTA!!! It's like a Panda's clap or like Slardar's slow afterstun. All what makes it like Puck's aoe is damage scaling.

Eye of Wisdom - [D] (when learn)

Silencer learns to control magic infight, getting extra intellegence when anyone anyhero cast spells.

Level 1 - +2 intellegence for 15 seconds.
Level 2 - +3 intellegence for 15 seconds.
Level 3 - +4 intellegence for 15 seconds.
Level 4 - +5 intellegence for 15 seconds.

Cooldown - 1 sec
Aoe - 700

*doesn't activates from Silencer's casts
*doesn't activates from items
*doesn't activates from arrow abilities, rot etc

Preassure of the Silence - [E]

Passive (no icon, but buff in status bar):
Causes any casting unit in 700 aoe around Silencer to become silenced after it finishes casting a spell.

Active:
Silences all enemies on the map, stop them from casting spells.

Level 1 - 1 sec silence, 3 sec global silence.
Level 2 - 2 sec silence, 4 sec global silence.
Level 3 - 3 sec silence, 5 sec global silence.

Cooldown - 120
Manacost - 250/425/600

All names and nubmers can be changed.

*1st ability allows silencer to good start game with a nuke, also it prorates with intellegence so it's good in late. Remake of Gloves of Wisdom.
*1st ability has subskill-teleport, that allows him to use 2nd skill right or use it for escape.
*2nd ability is a slow-around version of old curse of silence, but not so abuseable for low-mana heroes, but much better ingame. Still has good synergy with ulti.
*3rd abilty passively grants extra intellegence to increase attack damage, manapool and 1st skill damage. Remake of int-steal, but caped (for balance ofc) with duration and much stronger. Still has good synergy with 1st skill.
*Ulti now is more useful coz it grants LastWord aura to the hero. CD reduced, manacost increased (allow him for get more +int items).
*Increased mana usage for him, so he's now depends of mana.
*Now he has some more active spells than old curse+ulti.

24/08/2010 - Topic started;
25/08/2010 changes:
- Glaive's manacost rescaled from 90/120/150/180 to 80/120/160/200;
- Glaive's mechanic improved a bit - now it hit units twice: deals full damage when move forward and half damage when move back. Damage rescaled from 80/120/160/200 +150% of int to 60/85/110/135 +100% of int.
- add "Teleport to Glaive" as an option of the skill;
- increase Teleport's manacost from 30 to 100/90/80/70.
- Shackles' manacost increased from 100/120/140/160 to 100/125/150/175;
- Eye of Wisdom now activates only for hero's casts.
- Ulti's manacost increased from 250/400/550 to 250/425/600;

Discusse...

[LEM0NS]

Minor coding issue for Eye of Wisdom. There's no way to detect if a spell was casted by an ability or an item, so need to remove the part where it doesnt effect item spells for the spell to be codable.

[ItIsNight]

Originally Posted by LEM0NS

Minor coding issue for Eye of Wisdom. There's no way to detect if a spell was casted by an ability or an item, so need to remove the part where it doesnt effect item spells for the spell to be codable.

It can be checked by conditions for item-abilities. Same as for arrow-abilities etc. Easy codeable.

[LiL.RaBBiT]

Somehow i prefer the old silencer

[Shadow Fury]

Pretty awesome and makes him much more interesting. iSupport.

[LightningMouse]

I don't believe these ideas are wholesomely representative of the character.

Area of effect Clauses should be strongly defined and accompanied with a graphical cue.

He needs a control magic type spell, but not a spell like Illusory Orb.

I don't believe that he needs a Silence after Enemy Cast Aura at all.



I believe that his Silence should have a Global Range, but be restricted to a Large AoE.

I like the Icon and Name for Eye of Wisdom.



I imagine one spell steals the enemies magical powers, and another spell allows him to improve his attacks with Magic Damage, using his Mana Pool.



So there is confusion between Silencer and Harbinger, I think needs resolved as well.


At his heart, Silencer should be a defensive character. I would attribute him with a base of 7 armor because of his character.



It would be absolutely fascinating if he could deflect spells cast to his shield, from the front.

I hope to see a lot of changes in DotA, including spell physics.

[Jenova-]

Added a tag to the thread.

[Dr_JP]

First ability - Quite like illusory orb, but much stronger because it can scale as game goes by. (with 53 int, it's as strong as illusory orb).
Almost half cooldown, only +30 manacost (mana wouldn't be a problem to him with third skill).

Seconds ability - Same damage of Waning Rift!!
Instead of silence, slow (now he has both). Even if enemy manages to counter this, casting anything, Silencer still got guarantee of 5 seconds slow...
Again, high manacost doesn't balance it (third skill).

Third ability - Reminds me of Essence Aura..."when anyone cast spells"????
Allies too?
Even with 1 second pseudo-cooldown, he can gain 25 int (1 Mystic Staff) within 5 seconds! Teambattles are covered by spells.

Fourth ability - Fusion of Last Word and Global Silence.
The problem lays at the fact that 1 second silence is "waitable", even 2 seconds of silence is. I find it better only at 3 seconds.
With fusioned abilities, we can have 3 seconds of Last Word only at lvl 16.
Agreed to increase manacost and decrease cooldown to 120. Even if 160/140/120 seconds, it would be quite better.

Your Silencer is more dependent on mana, but he has the fuel to do it very easily.

It seems you were uncounciously jealous about Puck and Obsidian Destroyer.

"Best Silencer remake ever (or not?)"= Not!!

[ItIsNight]

Originally Posted by Dr_JP

First ability - Quite like illusory orb, but much stronger because it can scale as game goes by. (with 53 int, it's as strong as illusory orb).
Almost half cooldown, only +30 manacost (mana wouldn't be a problem to him with third skill).

* don't mind about numbers, it's balanceable.
* this skill is like illusory orb because of tp to glaive? Also, this skill is like Rexxar's axes, coz it flyies back. Is it bad to have 2 "same" skills in the game (same mechanic)? I think it much better than arrow-like ability.

Originally Posted by Dr_JP

Seconds ability - Same damage of Waning Rift!!
Instead of silence, slow (now he has both). Even if enemy manages to counter this, casting anything, Silencer still got guarantee of 5 seconds slow...
Again, high manacost doesn't balance it (third skill).

* don't mind about numbers, it's balanceable.
* 25% slow for 10 seconds is like panda's 55% slow for 5 seconds. So it's counterable, but guarantied for some seconds.

Originally Posted by Dr_JP

Third ability - Reminds me of Essence Aura..."when anyone cast spells"????
Allies too?
Even with 1 second pseudo-cooldown, he can gain 25 int (1 Mystic Staff) within 5 seconds! Teambattles are covered by spells.

* don't mind about numbers, it's balanceable.
* when cd is over noone cast spell imidietly, so it will charges some longer than every 1 second.
* 25 int is not so great bonus. Nevermore can get +60 damage as a constant, and this ability grants int for some time.
* Allies too, it makes him good with some heroes like zeus/bb etc. They are nerfed by stick, so this hero will be small buff to them.

Originally Posted by Dr_JP

Fourth ability - Fusion of Last Word and Global Silence.
The problem lays at the fact that 1 second silence is "waitable", even 2 seconds of silence is. I find it better only at 3 seconds.
With fusioned abilities, we can have 3 seconds of Last Word only at lvl 16.
Agreed to increase manacost and decrease cooldown to 120. Even if 160/140/120 seconds, it would be quite better.

* don't mind about numbers, it's balanceable. Anywaym it's better to have last-word aura.
* You get 1st ulti for last-word aura of for 3 sec global silence?
* I think CD must not scaling. It's good with 3 sec silence and 120 sec cd on 1st level and 5 sec silence and 120 cd on 3rd level (16+ hero's).

Originally Posted by Dr_JP

It seems you were uncounciously jealous about Puck and Obsidian Destroyer.

I don't like Obsidian Destroyer, he's casual and it is not interest to play him.

Dr_JP, you mind about number a lot. Additionaly you find many parallels between his and other heroes' skills. There are many heroes with arrow-/bolt-/stomp-/wave-abilities and there is some originality btw.

[Heelz]

Combining Last Word and Global Silence is genius. Last Word is a powerful normal skill, and Global Silence is pretty underwhelming for an ultimate. Together, they make a perfect ultimate.

I'm not sold on the first skill. It's stealing from Puck's uniqueness without adding much. I do like the idea of an AoE spell that scales with intelligence, though. Maybe instead of being able to teleport, it silences enemies it hits.

I like the idea for the second skill, CotS that snares instead of draining health/mana. I would buff the slow to 30% or 40% and make the duration lower. Don't know if I'd keep it in an area around Silencer like Puck's Waning Rift, though. I know you want to make it comboable with the Glaive teleport.

Passive is ok, but kind of boring.


Overall, I think it needs some tweaking. The first two spells seem too much like Puck's playstyle. Try to find some way to make them more different from the Illusory Orb+Waning Rift combo.

[ItIsNight]

There are a lot of wavers, mellee-bolters, blink-strikers and you wanna something else than tp+aoe? It's not like puck only, it's like akasha/void/storm/dagger+anyhero.

[red_4900]

T-up on combining his ulti with Last Word. T-down on the first because it brings nothing to the game other than stealing Puck's abilities. The others, T-null.

[Heelz]

Almost all the ports in the game are unique in their own right, save Akasha and Magina (since they're ladder Blinks). Void becomes invulnerable and slows at the end, Waveform was the first one to combine teleporting and a line AoE nuke, Storm's has infinite range, etc. Dagger doesn't count because it's an item.

Puck is the only porter who uses a nuke and has the choice to port into it. The Glaive spell doesn't add much to that other than extra damage based on int and returning (does it damage twice?). I actually like the part where the nuke scales with int. I also like that you changed CotS into something useful, a snare.

It's just that together, they seem exactly like the Orb-Rift combo. One similar spell from a hero is ok, but two is kind of pushing it. Plus, teleporting into a glaive is kind of odd.

I love the ultimate remake. I like that you replaced CotS with a snare. I like the nuke scaling with int. I just don't like the way it plays out.

[ItIsNight]

Originally Posted by Heelz

does it damage twice?

I change it to twice damage some minuts ago ^_^. You read my mind.

Originally Posted by Heelz

I just don't like the way it plays out.

Have any ideas to improve it?

So, i know what all you want. Just remove tp from glaive? LOL. Ok, i'll add this as an option.

[Guardian AngeL]

Actually I like current Nortrom's Orb walker ability. So this new one hasn't that ability. Can you change Wandering Glaive's CD like 3/2/1/0 !?

[KiReNnA~!]

And why should this be suggested to replace the current silencer? I dislike this already because it steals Puck's unique concept. His glaives are also similar to Wild Axes. I like the ultimate though. I judge only by the concept. However, 120 sec cd for 5 sec global silence is a little bit too low. Don't you think? (Dispite that the ult comes with a passive 3 seconds silence)

I'd stay with the current Silencer, hoping to see a unique concept.

[ItIsNight]

Guardian AngeL, if there are a TP, then 3/2/1/0 sec cd is too low ^_^ Anyway he's not a blinker, that's why his Glaive has higher cd than blink. But if remove tp-to-glaive, than damage/cd/manacost can be rescaled for more little values.

Originally Posted by KiReNnA~!

His glaives are also similar to Wild Axes.

SK's blast of fire is similar to sven's storm bolt, rexxar's roar, DK's dragon tale etc.
Puck's illusory orb is similar to banshee's carrior swarm, qop's sonic wave, lina's dragonslave, puck's illusory orb, kotl's illuminate, thd's dual breath, magnataur's shockwave, venge's howl of terror...
SAY_why_returning_missile_must_be_only_one_inmap_P LZ?

Originally Posted by KiReNnA~!

I'd stay with the current Silencer, hoping to see a unique concept.

How about unique ability to silence all enemies over the map when buy a clarity? It will be nice and unique playstyle to stay near the fountain and buing clarities. Also, add him an ability to burn mana, equal to (2+(count of items in silencer's inventory)-(count of items in target's inventory))*(Silencer's maximum mana - maximum health).
I mean that there are some rules of dota's playstyle, so don't need to make something more unique than just unique. And having some heroes with similar role/playstyle is good to have an alternative. Lina/Lion, Potm/Qop, Sven/SK are different heroes, but have similar abilities and/or role/playstyle. Nothing bad in that.

[Guardian AngeL]

Of course some rescale needed. And about that perma-blinking ability I have some ideas on Teleport to Glaive (ToG).

• We can increase ToG's mana cost huge.
• We can add rule. Remember old Raijin's Overload !? Like that ToG will only activate(become usable) after 8 (not sure on number) succesfull hit by Wandering Glave. After use ToG, it'll become disabled state. Nortrom require another 8 hits for activate it.
• Just add cd on ToG, maybe 8 sec.

[ItIsNight]

Originally Posted by Guardian AngeL

Of course some rescale needed. And about that perma-blinking ability I have some ideas on Teleport to Glaive (ToG).

• We can increase ToG's mana cost huge.
• We can add rule. Remember old Raijin's Overload !? Like that ToG will only activate(become usable) after 8 (not sure on number) succesfull hit by Wandering Glave. After use ToG, it'll become disabled state. Nortrom require another 8 hits for activate it.
• Just add cd on ToG, maybe 8 sec.

OK, i'll think about it and add rescaled version some later.

[Heelz]

Just so we're clear, even though I didn't like how similar it was to Puck at first, I think your ideas really have potential.

That said, I think the "boomerang" effect of Glaive is kind of unnecessary and complicated. I think it would be fine as a simple "Shockwave" like spell, but with similar AoE to Illusory Orb, bonus damage from int, and a silencing effect.

And if you do decide to get rid of the teleport completely, you'll have to change Shackles. Obviously you wanted it to combo with the port, since you made it AoE around Silencer. It would work fine if it was targeted just like the current CotS. Of course, the spell would need a more obvious visual effect than CotS. Also, did you consider my suggestion of making the slow stronger (30-40%) but duration shorter (4-5 seconds)?