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Old 08-31-2010, 08:04 PM   #1
blckdrgn
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Default Lucifer item build


Heres what I have been doing lately

soulring/wand
phase
dagon (if enemies are easily nuked to death)
guin (if strong tank/carry heros)

For boots treads dont give very much move speed and he does not have any DPS type skills to benefit much from the attack speed and has high str gain anyway so the HP is not very necessary. Arcane boots can be good to keep you ganking constantly since you wont have mana issues but the lack of move speed or any other benefit makes them a sub par choice. Phase seems to be the best balance to give him good move speed, phasing over units, and some decent damage.

The old travels/rad build is not very reliable as it is difficult to farm and weak against a lot of line ups.

Lets hear your opinions.
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Old 08-31-2010, 08:16 PM   #2
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Default Re: Lucifer item build
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I tend to like shivas on him since it slows enemies in an aoe and solves armor and mana problems. Guinsoo certainly is always an option on any caster. You might find that euls will be more realistic to farm, gives you a decent ms bonus (very nice when coupled with a speed creep and fire or just fire), and the disable is always nice. Aga is always useful on this hero as well. Linkins can also be a decent choice for stats regen and the all important block.

I know it sounds a little ambiguous but for a hero like doom it all depends on your allies and enemies for what you need to build.

I'm not a fan of dagon tbh unless you have a pugna on your team or your enemies are too stupid to buy hp. It doesn't add a hell of a lot of mana for an intel item for it's cost and the burst damage costs too much mana given that lucy has a garbage mana pool.
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Old 08-31-2010, 08:23 PM   #3
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why not build him as a carry?
vanguard radi assault satanic heart travels
he can afford it . so why not?
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Old 08-31-2010, 08:26 PM   #4
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Default Re: Lucifer item build
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle.slayer View Post
why not build him as a carry?
vanguard radi assault satanic heart travels
he can afford it . so why not?
Because he can't afford that.

@smashville check my replay, I didnt have mana problems with just soul ring. Shivas/Euls are interesting ideas. I dont like linkens as it is a defensive item and I prefer to play Lucifer aggressively offensive. In my opinion scepter is more of a luxury since its benefits are not really worth the money. For the same price you could have a 600 dmg dagon or guinsoo.
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Old 08-31-2010, 08:34 PM   #5
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Default Re: Lucifer item build
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Your enemies picked a horrible team - 4 carries/semi carries and cm.

SR is interesting, it's a double edged sword to me. On one hand you get necessary mana on the other hand you lose hp for just temporary mana. If you want to make use of all of your skills including a creep's skill that you devour you're looking at about 4 skills per team fight and there's no way SR can cover for all of them. I'd rather just get a mana item with an extra disable/skill than use an item slot on a SR on any hero who can't turn that mana back to hp.
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Old 08-31-2010, 08:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: Lucifer item build
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashville View Post
Your enemies picked a horrible team - 4 carries/semi carries and cm.

SR is interesting, it's a double edged sword to me. On one hand you get necessary mana on the other hand you lose hp for just temporary mana. If you want to make use of all of your skills including a creep's skill that you devour you're looking at about 4 skills per team fight and there's no way SR can cover for all of them. I'd rather just get a mana item with an extra disable/skill than use an item slot on a SR on any hero who can't turn that mana back to hp.
Thats what scorched earth is for... If you are ganking so much that soul ring is not enough mana you could get arcane boots instead of phase, then there are no mana problems. Usually though after I get soul ring it is plenty for mana until I get a staff of wizardry/void stone then I dont really have mana issues, even after dagon.
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Old 08-31-2010, 08:37 PM   #7
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Scorched earth doesn't give that much hp. It's used for ms rather than hp. And it has a rather long cd if you plan on using it solely for the hp and not for chasing/running.
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Old 08-31-2010, 08:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashville View Post
Scorched earth doesn't give that much hp. It's used for ms rather than hp. And it has a rather long cd if you plan on using it solely for the hp and not for chasing/running.
Scorched Earth
Time 8/10/12/14
Regen 15/20/25/30
HP 120/200/300/420

Most of the time when I use soul ring it is when I am chasing with scorched earth so the HP loss is negated.
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Old 08-31-2010, 08:47 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by smashville View Post
I tend to like shivas on him since it slows enemies in an aoe and solves armor and mana problems. Guinsoo certainly is always an option on any caster. You might find that euls will be more realistic to farm, gives you a decent ms bonus (very nice when coupled with a speed creep and fire or just fire), and the disable is always nice. Aga is always useful on this hero as well. Linkins can also be a decent choice for stats regen and the all important block.
I loled at the bold part. If there is any hero that a retard can have good farm with is lucifer, 25 mins hex should be no problems with this hero.
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Old 08-31-2010, 08:51 PM   #10
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You're still using scorched earth to negate the SR penalty rather than using it to save yourself or finish someone off. Again it's only temporary 150 mana when doom costs more than that, if you get a purge creep that costs 150, I believe war stomp is 100, SE is 75, lvl death is 110 and has a short cd. Your mana pool is too crappy to support all of those moves with just a SR and void stone. Plus if you're getting a void stone you might as well turn it into something useful like linkins or euls.
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Old 08-31-2010, 08:54 PM   #11
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Default Re: Lucifer item build
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Quote:
I loled at the bold part. If there is any hero that a retard can have good farm with is lucifer, 25 mins hex should be no problems with this hero.
If all you do is farm it's possible or max devour early. But of course there are games where you take some early deaths from ganking and then it takes 25 min or more just to get the mystic staff. Euls is an easy item to farm with a nice disable and an ms bonus that stacks with his other ms bonuses.
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Old 08-31-2010, 08:56 PM   #12
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Well if I was trying to save my self I wouldnt use soul ring and I usually do use soul ring to finish someone off with an extra level death, if necessary you could use scorched earth at the same time to help chase/negate hp loss. Thats why I get it early so that I can spam level deaths on level 5/8/9 heros, no other early game item gives that kind of burst mana. Sure you could say bottle/crow but that relies on runes where soul ring is always consistent and the HP loss can be negated. It's the perfect early game item for luci.

Watch the replay and you will see I had no mana issues with soul ring alone.
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:00 PM   #13
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if u cant rice 6 inventory items with doom.
then u dont deserve to play dota.
specially after radi.
it becomes even more easier!
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turtle.slayer View Post
if u cant rice 6 inventory items with doom.
then u dont deserve to play dota.
specially after radi.
it becomes even more easier!
Cmon if you are going to troll at least try to be funny.
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:02 PM   #15
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No point in watching that replay where the guy with the most hero kills was a cm on a team of carries. There's a 1-10 OD who if he was remotely good should be able to dominate with his ult. Because you stomp some bad people doesn't mean SR is the answer to all your mana problems in every game.

I'm not saying it's a bad item, I just don't think it can solve all of your mana problems since his pool is so small and his spammable spells are fairly expensive. Give me something with mana and a disable or armor or something else attached to it for more money all day every day.

You can go for whatever you want. It's all personal preference as the items are all fairly balanced. My personal preference is to get a quick euls so I can level death/euls/se/chase level death again. Or I can use the euls to escape if I'm overwhelmed. Though to be fair I'm from the days when euls was core on every hero and it could be turned to guinsoo. I'm sure it's eaten the nerf stick a lot since then, but to me it's still a very key item on any hero with a limited mana pool.
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:07 PM   #16
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Default Re: Lucifer item build
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashville View Post
No point in watching that replay where the guy with the most hero kills was a cm on a team of carries. There's a 1-10 OD who if he was remotely good should be able to dominate with his ult. Because you stomp some bad people doesn't mean SR is the answer to all your mana problems in every game.

I'm not saying it's a bad item, I just don't think it can solve all of your mana problems since his pool is so small and his spammable spells are fairly expensive. Give me something with mana and a disable or armor or something else attached to it for more money all day every day.

You can go for whatever you want. It's all personal preference as the items are all fairly balanced. My personal preference is to get a quick euls so I can level death/euls/se/chase level death again. Or I can use the euls to escape if I'm overwhelmed. Though to be fair I'm from the days when euls was core on every hero and it could be turned to guinsoo. I'm sure it's eaten the nerf stick a lot since then, but to me it's still a very key item on any hero with a limited mana pool.
If you are against a mana burn team with silencer/am/lion/kotl/na/etc it wont be enough, so as I suggested earlier instead of phase boots you could get arcane boots, or stick it out till you get the mid game items you are referring to. However early game without a soul ring against these types of heros you will be quickly out of mana and focused on farming only where the luci with a soul ring is already kicking people out of the lane / ganking with lvl death spam.

BTW I dont get soul ring because it owns noobs, I get it because it allows very early lvl death spam, in any level of play.
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smashville View Post
If all you do is farm it's possible or max devour early. But of course there are games where you take some early deaths from ganking and then it takes 25 min or more just to get the mystic staff. Euls is an easy item to farm with a nice disable and an ms bonus that stacks with his other ms bonuses.
Even at lvl 1 devour is 80 gold per minute if used well, can be way more. That is the mystic staff alone.
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:48 PM   #18
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Even at lvl 1 devour is 80 gold per minute if used well, can be way more. That is the mystic staff alone.
If you don't die, that is..
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:51 PM   #19
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If you want good +ms, just eat the +ms neutral creep. (My personal favorite).
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:06 PM   #20
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you need dagger or lothar, otherwise it's pretty viable. nothing new tho, dagon doom has been around forever and caster items in general are often very useful on him because he can get them extremely fast.

getting hex/orchid/necro3 before the enemy carry has any real items you can use those items to push really hard. with one hero doomed, one hero silenced or hexed and focused and the carry still not being able to pull his own weight, all you need is some heroes with strong early game ultis (rhasta, zeus, bambi, aa, shaker, lich, anything really) to end the game in 30-35 min. on the other hand, trying to outcarry some medusa with radi/vanguard/curiass/treads when she has linken's/manta might be impossible if her support heroes do their job.

with what i just said in mind and the fact that the new doom doesn't have to instagib targets, he can just chase with scorched earth and kobold aura, getting dagon might be a waste of time. your pub where you solo vs a terribad furion doesn't prove your point that much.

if you just want to stomp pubs, standard treads -> lothar -> scepter -> curiass is your best bet since your allies might just afk farm instead of helping you push/gank and then you are fucked.


still, dagger or lothar is a must in any build because
a) helps land stomps (don't even start about getting the wolf instead of cent because it's retarded to give up a 2 sec aoe stun for a pathetic crit and a lvl 1 command aura).
b) lets you surprise buttsex people with doom. the main doom target will stand back and wait for you to waste doom or get stunned/focused/killed before coming into range (unless he's a retard).
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:23 PM   #21
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Quote:
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If you don't die, that is..
I assumed you were not casting devour everytime possible and maybe 1-2 deaths. Else it is 100 gold per minute, 120 if you are good.
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:39 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralCash View Post
you need dagger or lothar, otherwise it's pretty viable. nothing new tho, dagon doom has been around forever and caster items in general are often very useful on him because he can get them extremely fast.

getting hex/orchid/necro3 before the enemy carry has any real items you can use those items to push really hard. with one hero doomed, one hero silenced or hexed and focused and the carry still not being able to pull his own weight, all you need is some heroes with strong early game ultis (rhasta, zeus, bambi, aa, shaker, lich, anything really) to end the game in 30-35 min. on the other hand, trying to outcarry some medusa with radi/vanguard/curiass/treads when she has linken's/manta might be impossible if her support heroes do their job.

with what i just said in mind and the fact that the new doom doesn't have to instagib targets, he can just chase with scorched earth and kobold aura, getting dagon might be a waste of time. your pub where you solo vs a terribad furion doesn't prove your point that much.

if you just want to stomp pubs, standard treads -> lothar -> scepter -> curiass is your best bet since your allies might just afk farm instead of helping you push/gank and then you are fucked.


still, dagger or lothar is a must in any build because
a) helps land stomps (don't even start about getting the wolf instead of cent because it's retarded to give up a 2 sec aoe stun for a pathetic crit and a lvl 1 command aura).
b) lets you surprise buttsex people with doom. the main doom target will stand back and wait for you to waste doom or get stunned/focused/killed before coming into range (unless he's a retard).
Dagger/lothar are good ideas, I have not tried them on luci to be honest. The reason I like dagon is because luci is purely an early/mid game hero and gets out carried late. Soul ring gives early lvl death spam for easy kills, then dagon gives the mid game power to keep ripping through heros so that you can delay late game and easily create a level/gold gap.

However if you die a few times early/mid and the enemy is ahead it would definitely be a waste of time that is far eclipsed by items with disables like euls/hex/orchid for sure.
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Old 09-01-2010, 03:03 AM   #23
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his build is pretty flexible
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Old 09-01-2010, 03:08 AM   #24
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Havent played doom in a high lvl game but from what I have watched you should aim first for something defensive to be able to tank, chase, doom and whatever a doom needs...

My pubstomp build concist of lothar. Never end up with less than 20 kills when playing doom in a pub... it is just too easy - inv, backstab, doom, level dead...
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Old 09-01-2010, 03:09 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blckdrgn View Post
Cmon if you are going to troll at least try to be funny.
He's right, Doom CANNOT not farm.

Anyways, I much prefer building him as a somewhat tank/semi-carry so I can be useful lategame as much as possible.

I like getting:

Phase (sold for BoT)
Vanguard (sold for Cuirass)
Radiance
Pipe
HoT/Satanic
Scepter

With Alpha wolf, it's GG.
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Old 09-01-2010, 03:57 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by s.ops_Freak View Post
He's right, Doom CANNOT not farm.

Anyways, I much prefer building him as a somewhat tank/semi-carry so I can be useful lategame as much as possible.

I like getting:

Phase (sold for BoT)
Vanguard (sold for Cuirass)
Radiance
Pipe
HoT/Satanic
Scepter

With Alpha wolf, it's GG.
Replay or it didnt happen.
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Old 09-01-2010, 03:59 AM   #27
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I incorporated dagger on my doom build as initiator-caster w/ semi tanking capabilities.

You can check my guide if you wish.
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Old 09-01-2010, 04:05 AM   #28
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I build him as an area DPSer and semi carry. First item is always Vanguard followed by a boot of choice (usually PT str). You may start ganking top/bot after those 2 items, of course if you got a good rune / correct multiplier you may go earlier .. After those two I would start aiming for radi, followed by Plate Mail --> Dagger --> Shiva. My game usually ends there.

Justification : VG is for imba tanking, Radi is gotten for the sparkles (helping you farm is a bonus plus), Plate Mail first is to fix your armor, Dagger is to help you initiate (the optimal creep is always always Centaur or Troll, only get wolf if it's superlate game), Shiva is for bonus AOE damage.

No matter how badly my game started, I never fail to reach the Plate Mail. Doom is too good a farmer (even tho you don't afk farm).
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Old 09-01-2010, 03:16 PM   #29
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PA has 2 orbs.
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Old 09-01-2010, 03:57 PM   #30
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Replay or it didnt happen.
It didn't happen.
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Old 09-01-2010, 04:23 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralCash View Post
you need dagger or lothar, otherwise it's pretty viable. nothing new tho, dagon doom has been around forever and caster items in general are often very useful on him because he can get them extremely fast.

getting hex/orchid/necro3 before the enemy carry has any real items you can use those items to push really hard. with one hero doomed, one hero silenced or hexed and focused and the carry still not being able to pull his own weight, all you need is some heroes with strong early game ultis (rhasta, zeus, bambi, aa, shaker, lich, anything really) to end the game in 30-35 min. on the other hand, trying to outcarry some medusa with radi/vanguard/curiass/treads when she has linken's/manta might be impossible if her support heroes do their job.

with what i just said in mind and the fact that the new doom doesn't have to instagib targets, he can just chase with scorched earth and kobold aura, getting dagon might be a waste of time. your pub where you solo vs a terribad furion doesn't prove your point that much.

if you just want to stomp pubs, standard treads -> lothar -> scepter -> curiass is your best bet since your allies might just afk farm instead of helping you push/gank and then you are fucked.


still, dagger or lothar is a must in any build because
a) helps land stomps (don't even start about getting the wolf instead of cent because it's retarded to give up a 2 sec aoe stun for a pathetic crit and a lvl 1 command aura).
b) lets you surprise buttsex people with doom. the main doom target will stand back and wait for you to waste doom or get stunned/focused/killed before coming into range (unless he's a retard).
except its not level 1 aura.
its 32% damage + 20% 2 crit.
with just phase boots(pt) and radi u can crit smg close to 600
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