[STR-NEUTRAL] Odin the Ruler of Asgard

[KyonoRocks]

I entered this hero in Complete The Hero 11 and since it did so well I thought I'd continue to develop it. Feedback would be much appreciated.

Need a test map! .

RULER OF ASGARD
Odin


__________

Reviewed by:

• king_james

[king_james]

Extracted from my grades in the CTH:
Odin, the Ruler of Asgard
Functionality of Abilities (18.5/24):
Skill 1 - 4/6
The skill isn't bad, not one bit. Although I feel that the physical evasion may lead to some imbalances, however, Alleria already has this in-game, and she isn't IMBA. Its a good "last stand" skill to use when your in danger, definitely something that would be very useful.

Skill 2 - 4.5/6
Definitely a new, unique concept. And because of that, I'm very impressed. The thematic feel of the skill alone makes you feel like a spy, very interesting. Although I'm not so sure that it was good to include heroes that use items or level up to be spotted, that would ruin some tactical strategies of the opposing team. This may turn the tides around. But nevertheless, a very good ability.

Skill 3 - 4/6
Situational ability. What say if there were no allied comrades in the targeted Area of Effect? The skill will be rendered useless. Its a good effect, but won't be just as effective at most times.

Ultimate - 6/6
Holy FUCK. Surprised me with the ability here. Its definitely the icing on the cake. I'm giving this skill a high score due to its great synergetic value with the other abilities. Skill 1 would provide you a decent survivability when your life is way LOW to make sure your "Ragnarok" is as STRONG as possible. Skill 3 will provide a MASSIVE Splash damage/heal to enemies/allies. Stellar.

Synergy (23/24):
Skill Synergy - 11/12
Its all here my friend. I'm sold. (I didn't make it 12 because of the small role of Skill 2 in the set)

Other Synergy - 12/12
Heroes that can provide some decent extra HP to Odin would be PERFECT when he needs it the most with Ragnarok. This can increase his damage output and make him more dangerous in the battlefield. As with his items, regeneration would be the way to go, or if wanting to go for the kill, go for the Armlet, which would drain your life to smithereens, dealing a MASSIVE amount of damage.

Gameplay (27/30):
Gameplay and Depth - 10/10
Damn fun to play Odin. I'd want to play him right now. Can't wait for a test-map if your planning to continue improving him. Another thing I'd like to add is that you've made Odin a hero that doesn't seem to make sense with just 1 ability. However, if you combine all his abilities, you get one incredible package. And that's what made me like him.

Fluency and Suitability - 9/10
The knight theme has always been cliche, but not now. Incredible usage of the model and the challenge ability to make this hero fucking solid.

Balance - 8/10
I feel a need for a cap for the damage of the ultimate. That's the only balance I feel necessary for Odin.

Others (22/22):
Appeal - 10/10
No comment.

Cosmetics - 7/7
Perfect in every aspect.

Originality - 5/5
Need I say more?

Total: (90.5/100)

[Shadow Fury]

A cap for Odin?

NEVAR!

[dreamcatcher0]

its really good! i love this hero! the ultimate is really cool! i really like it!

btw, i also like your template. can i use it too? if yes, where can i get it?

[KyonoRocks]

The template is the Sophisticated Hero Suggestion Template by NoThinG. It is very pretty isn't it I had to make the Hero Introduction and Background Story text a bit bigger though because some people complained about reading difficulty.

------

So I've been thinking about the hero and I think I need to make the following improvements...

• Make Skill 1 more exciting and original. It's very synergetic and completely necessary but the application is a bit dull.
• Refine Skill 2. I was trying to think of a unique way to do a global scouting skill (I like this idea, I had it in my Gnoll suggestion too), but I think I need to work on it a bit to make it less random. The enemy often doesn't use items and abilities when outside of your LOS (such as heading for a gank), so this would defeat the object of the skill.
• Decide whether Ragnarok needs a cap of some kind. It can be ridiculously overpowered (especially if you stack strength items) but then again, you're very easy to kill after it.
• Increase the range of Gungnir's heal so that it can still heal Odin at his maximum casting range. That was a silly oversight, I'll change that now.
• Possibly think of another effect to add to Gungnir. Some of the judges in CTH said it was boring.... individually it is but it works nicely with Ragnarok.

[dreamcatcher0]

Originally Posted by KyonoRocks

The template is the Sophisticated Hero Suggestion Template by NoThinG. It is very pretty isn't it I had to make the Hero Introduction and Background Story text a bit bigger though because some people complained about reading difficulty.

well thank you.

[KyonoRocks]

Thought I'd first address Skill 2 since I would like to keep the concept (global scouting skill triggered by enemy actions) but I think the previous way I implemented it was flawed. As mentioned in a previous post, if it triggers through ability use, item use or level ups then it's probably not going to give Odin LOS when enemies are running to ganks. Furthermore, the main purpose of the skill is to give Odin information as to where stragglers are... so he can Ragnarok the shit out of them. The old skill would rarely achieve this purpose.

So here's my new proposal...

Notes

• *duration of Line of Sight if activated.
• Does not provide sight of invisible units
• Plays a sound effect (crows calling) to all enemy heroes, notifying them of its activation.

What this does is have the same theme (His birds report news to him, triggered by enemy activity), but it's infinitely more useful. Movement is a great trigger to discover ganks, low health fleeing enemies and Roshan killers.

It could work in one of 2 ways. Like Bloodseeker's Ravage (where any movement counts) or like Ancient Apparition's Cold Feet or Puck's Dream Coil (which judges movement from a certain point).

I've also added a global sound effect (a bit like silencer's silence) which would make the sound of crows calling. This would let the enemy know that if they move, they will be discovered. This adds an interesting dynamic which acts as a 10 second movement deterrent... especially useful if you have global damaging allies (like Zeus or Invoker).

Thoughts?

[chessfreak]

If you do change the skill, then Odin should be the point by which to base the distance (if your using the system of puck's coil).

[chomps]

t-down

[KyonoRocks]

OK added the change to Thought & Memory. Now triggers with movement.

Feedback would be laaaaavely and perhaps some ideas on how to make Mimir (Skill 1) more interesting. He needs the evasion but it needs to be done in a cooler way... Crit is nice too, to make him a bit more carry-like.

[Nizaris]

Skill 1 : Evasion + Critical Strike = Mortred

Skill 4 : you are destined to die...but you learn a complete evasion from death...

What???

[KyonoRocks]

Originally Posted by Nizaris

Skill 1 : Evasion + Critical Strike = Mortred

Except it's active. It's more like Windrunner's 'Windrunner' but with Critical instead of Movement.

Thinking about it... does any hero have an active critical ability? Can't think of any right now. Surprised if there isn't.

Originally Posted by Nizaris

Skill 4 : you are destined to die...but you learn a complete evasion from death...

What???

No you learn complete physical evasion. You can be killed by magic. Plus Ragnarok only has a short cooldown so you'll have lots of opportunities to fulfil your destiny!

[Nizaris]

The skill is contradicting, you want o make his story like Odin in Ragnarok, but the skill contradict the story and contradict each other.

Surely you don't want to die in DotA right? (only one hero have suicide)

So it doesn't fitting, if i play as your hero, i don't have the right feeling.

[chessfreak]

For mimir, How about 100% chance to crit at level 4

[KyonoRocks]

Originally Posted by Nizaris

The skill is contradicting, you want o make his story like Odin in Ragnarok, but the skill contradict the story and contradict each other.

Surely you don't want to die in DotA right? (only one hero have suicide)

So it doesn't fitting, if i play as your hero, i don't have the right feeling.

Jesus, you have to be the most annoying person on this forum.

Mimir's head allows Odin to see into the future. I used this as inspiration for his first skill since he can see where enemies will be (and can dodge their attacks and strike them critically). It has nothing to do with Ragnarok mythology wise. Anyway, Odin knows he is going to die. It doesn't matter!

Ragnarok is the name of the final battle of the Gods, during which Odin dies. YES, he isn't guaranteed to die from this skill... but he cuts it close. If I was going to be completely canonical I'd have a massive wolf come and swallow him whole after casting! It's a skill inspired by the idea, as the hero is inspired by Odin. Plus it sounds cool, it's his ultimate skill (and Ragnarok is the ultimate battle) and it pretty much signifies the end of his life... which Ragnarok is.

If I was gonna be that pedantic then Skill 2 would grant global line of sight at all times and Gungnir would insta-kill anyone he aims at!

Seriously Nizaris, you should become a professional troll like at that guy 27b/6. You've got a real knack of pissing me (and I can imagine a lot of people) off.

Originally Posted by chessfreak

For mimir, How about 100% chance to crit at level 4

I think that would be grossly overpowered, since Ragnarok can add upwards of 1500 (by end game at least) to his next attack. If that had a 100% crit chance then it would be instant death to anyone. While 100% crit would be cool, I'd rather have the longer duration evasion since that synergizes better with his ultimate.

[Nizaris]

Mimir's head allows Odin to see into the future. I used this as inspiration for his first skill since he can see where enemies will be (and can dodge their attacks and strike them critically). It has nothing to do with Ragnarok mythology wise. Anyway, Odin knows he is going to die. It doesn't matter!

It does matter, because you use Odin theme and Ragnarok. Odin must die in Ragnarok. But he don't die in your skill set because you don't want him to die in DotA, because DotA is about win and live.

So it is not fitting.

Ragnarok is the name of the final battle of the Gods, during which Odin dies. YES, he isn't guaranteed to die from this skill... but he cuts it close. If I was going to be completely canonical I'd have a massive wolf come and swallow him whole after casting! It's a skill inspired by the idea, as the hero is inspired by Odin. Plus it sounds cool, it's his ultimate skill (and Ragnarok is the ultimate battle) and it pretty much signifies the end of his life... which Ragnarok is.

I know about Ragnarok. By the way, IF you change the ultimate that he sacrifice himself, really die, then it fit Ragnarok.

Seriously Nizaris, you should become a professional troll like at that guy 27b/6. You've got a real knack of pissing me (and I can imagine a lot of people) off.

That is what i feel when you are trolling in my hero suggestion

What i am trying to do is to make your hero better...

[Kira`]

What i am trying to do is to make your hero better...

nope, your argument about "he's Odin, so he must follow the story" doesn't make any better with the suggestion

IMO, if he inspired by Odin, doesn't mean he needs to copy Odin's story here. He just take some characteristic of Odin and Ragnarok, and create something new based on the story, and it's called creativity
Look at Lucifer, if we follow the story, when Lucifer comes, the world will be doomed, and all will die, suffer, etc etc. Zeus?? if you follow the story, most suitable damage for his Lightning is 1500 damage, why? he's the ruler of the God, he's the most powerful god in myth, but in DotA he's weak, WTF isn't it?? IF you follow the story

@KyonoRocks:
will do detailed review in my next visit
just passing by and found someone say something funny

[Nizaris]

Well, i am pushing him to create skills fit to the story, he can agree to disagree, no need to piss off and calling me a troll.

atleast i am giving commentary, i am looking at the story, background, then the skill set...RPG values..., instead of just :boring", "unoriginal", "uncreative"...ect

I wonder why he piss off?

Do i say he is not creative? Do i say his hero is boring? I only say Evasion + Critical = Mortred. But do i wrote "Oh that is so unoriginal, uncreative and you making a boring hero"

then i say about does the skill fit the story. After he reply, i give suggestion. What is the problem?

I see a plot here...

[LEM0NS]

There's some coding issues with the forth skill. There's no function that can be used to get the regernation of a unit. The only way to stop a unit from regening is to constantly keep the units health and it its higher than the last check then the units health is reduced. The problem with this is that it would stop things like heals from spells and lifestealing. Over than that issue everything can be coded.

[KyonoRocks]

Originally Posted by LEM0NS

There's some coding issues with the forth skill. There's no function that can be used to get the regernation of a unit. The only way to stop a unit from regening is to constantly keep the units health and it its higher than the last check then the units health is reduced. The problem with this is that it would stop things like heals from spells and lifestealing.

Stopping heals and lifestealing is actually necessary, I'm intending for that to happen (otherwise you'd just cast it at the fountain and build up a bonus damage of 10000 or something.

If the heals and lifesteal are stopped, it's codeable? Would that effect the lifesteal of Gungnir or does that count as after casting (and thus would apply)?

Originally Posted by Kira`

@KyonoRocks:
will do detailed review in my next visit
just passing by and found someone say something funny

Thank you! God, I almost thought I was being the idiot until someone else spoke! haha

Originally Posted by Nizaris

atleast i am giving commentary, i am looking at the story, background, then the skill set...RPG values..., instead of just :boring", "unoriginal", "uncreative"...ect

If you're relating to the Ultimate Warrior comments I've made, while they aren't exactly nice... they haven't been completely unconstructive. I complained about the passive, saying it's boring (as did many people) and you changed the passive. I also suggested that you look at the fun factor and how interesting the skills are. In the end, there wasn't much to say about it... if the hero is uncreative and unoriginal then what can we say? "Make it more creative, use some independent thought." That's as constructive as I can imagine.