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Old 09-07-2010, 05:13 PM   #1
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Default Best Support Player


i'm currently practicing support heroes, i wanna see some ZOMGWTF support players own the game, can someone suggest? or give a replay,
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:18 PM   #2
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GosuGamers DotA | Replay: EHOME vs DTS

Best venge player in the world.
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:28 PM   #3
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Agree with the above poster. EH's 820 is the best in the world.

I think DTS' NS is the best western support player.
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:32 PM   #4
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Agree with the above poster. EH's 820 is the best in the world.

I think DTS' NS is the best western support player.
That's exactly what I was going to post

but also I'm pretty awesome.
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:40 PM   #5
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umm actually a suport role is the easiest in DotA

say what you want, but that's the truth:

you put a random decent DotA player (i mean a guy who plays in leagues quite high lvl CWs) in a PRO team on CM - he wont screw the game up to badly

you put a random decent DotA player in a PRO team on let's say solo mid semi-carry (like storm), he gonna screw the game so badly - it's gonna be GG in 20 mins. same would be with hard carry or initiator.

another argument on this - any PRO player could play a good CM or venge or other suport, but for example MYM|Pusher can't play no necro

i know i'm gonna get flamed for this, but think before you make an opinion:

what role would you choose to play if you would suddenly need to stand in for EHOME in some tournament?

would you want to play cm or traxex?

i think it's easy answer for anyone
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:41 PM   #6
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Supporting skills is something you inherit; for example, Swedes' gene pool simply blocks your ability to support your team.
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the nearest when you attack the ground it attacks the nearest that's the same with deathward
deathward attack the ground
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:53 PM   #7
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Look at EHome Support players :<.
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Old 09-07-2010, 05:59 PM   #8
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no it's not easy.. imagine u rylai in front of nevermore.. one wrong move= death

btw: ty 4 the rep
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:06 PM   #9
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Supporting skills is something you inherit; for example, Swedes' gene pool simply blocks your ability to support your team.
Fuck you.

OT: EH's 820, awesome.
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:09 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skaloon View Post
umm actually a suport role is the easiest in DotA

say what you want, but that's the truth:

you put a random decent DotA player (i mean a guy who plays in leagues quite high lvl CWs) in a PRO team on CM - he wont screw the game up to badly

you put a random decent DotA player in a PRO team on let's say solo mid semi-carry (like storm), he gonna screw the game so badly - it's gonna be GG in 20 mins. same would be with hard carry or initiator.

another argument on this - any PRO player could play a good CM or venge or other suport, but for example MYM|Pusher can't play no necro

i know i'm gonna get flamed for this, but think before you make an opinion:

what role would you choose to play if you would suddenly need to stand in for EHOME in some tournament?

would you want to play cm or traxex?

i think it's easy answer for anyone
Only partly true. I guess another argument is that they get almost no creep kills so they are not required to have good last hitting skills, right? Wrong. First you have to define what supporter is. Babysitter? Their era is gone. A part of a tri-lane? Now we are talking totally different things here. You see, your example with CM is good and I've seen it many times that new players and stand ins are put there. But why? Because even after so many changes she is still a walking mana fountain. Even if you suck and cant buy boots you can still click the 2 spells one of which is targetable and the other a huge AoE slow. So in the end whats the conclusion? You cant really screw up badly. Only thing you can do is not feed but even if you feed its mostly ok. Its not that the role is easy, its the hero. Take vangeful spirit for example. Would you say swapping friends and foes where 1 swap can cost you the game(yes I've seen it, when venge couldnt swap enigma in time and it grabbed 4 heroes in black hole...gg) is easy? Would you say playing an earthshaker where 1 bad fissure could block your teammate or allow the enemy to escape is easy? Would you say playing puck is easy when one bad initiation can get your whole team killed? No. Bad players are bad and players who havent played before with the team will suck thats for sure. And this will show. So thats why people put them on heroes where even if you screw up it isnt going to be fatal. Carry players are the shit farming creeps then going out and owning teams with tier 4 items but think about the people who support them, the people who give them this farming space and protect them from gangs. Its not easy, its not the easiest role. Heck there is no easiest role just easiest heroes. And please dont try to tell me how its easier to play sand king constantly putting pressure on the opponent while your team's medusa is happily farming in peace.

sorry for typos, I wont double check that
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skaloon View Post
umm actually a suport role is the easiest in DotA
Sorry Skaloon, but you are wildly mistaken.

The support role is, in my opinion, the most difficult role to play efficiently in DotA. You have to have your carries not die, let them farm, gank, ward and counterward all with no creep kills. You also have no farm, which means you'll have absolutely no hp, but you have to try not to feed.

In my opinion, Gx on LGD is a pretty solid support player, but I think 820 outshines him just a bit.
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:22 PM   #12
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Gx IMO is the best CM there is.
820's vengeful is legendary
Dgc form Nirvana.cn has a killer Enigma.
X!! from EHOME(even though he is not exactly a support player) has the best Lion hands down
etc.etc.etc.
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:36 PM   #13
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everyone talks about venge swaps. there is nothign to it. example if enemy team has enigma with bkb - she is the target to swap when she cast black hole - that is a team figth winner there - but it's easy. same goes on ganked carry you swap him when he is fucked, most important thing - easy to do.
venge is so easy to play is not even funny, ganking with point click stun, spaming terror wawe, and swaping the most important target (which one is obvious all the time).

@dysania

warding - nothing hard there, just good knowledge of DotA, i mean any pro player would know when, what, where to ward.

stay close to your carry again nothing hard there, stay there, if needed suicide for him, cast your disables and shit. any pro player cna do it

harrasing is easy too, it's way harded to lane with carry - it requires way more skills - you have to farm, deny, harras and control the lane in the same moment - hard as hell. standing with warlock while suporting spectre (6.64 memories) and hiting enemies when they get a bit closer is easy as hell, all you have to care about is not agroing the creeps. again nothign hard for a good player

surviving without any items is easy too - noone ask cm or venge to tank nothing. all it takes is good map awerness. once again any pro player can do it

it's way harder to survive with hard carry - no matter how farmed you are (medusa is exception for this). carry are the main target, carry will be the one who tanks shit.

this shit about suport role being hard is a myth, what comes form pubs. cause those guys dont have the knowledge of game what is needed for suport or any other role. meanwhile they still can afk farm and have some items with carry and look like they doing a better job then last game feeding with cm. which is not true

i can bet ya what lightheaven could play venge as good as NS any day. meanwhile i doubt what NS can play as good rexx as light does
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Fuck you.

OT: EH's 820, awesome.
You seen Loda supporting?
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the nearest when you attack the ground it attacks the nearest that's the same with deathward
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:43 PM   #15
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lol you are so clueless
What is the difference between support hero and carry hero then? Last hitting? Isnt this even easier than the things you just listed? Wow you made the game so freaking easy man, you must be so pro lol.

Seriously I'll give you one more example and shut your mouth for good:
Why Euro DotA is so behind? Because they dont have quality support players, thats why. All their legends are carry/gankers with the exception of NS and Pusher and even these two are nothing really special. But why is that? Isnt support so easy anybody can pick and play? What is the reason man? You dont have an answer to this so dont bother replaying.
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Old 09-07-2010, 06:58 PM   #16
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lol you are so clueless
What is the difference between support hero and carry hero then? Last hitting? Isnt this even easier than the things you just listed? Wow you made the game so freaking easy man, you must be so pro lol.

Seriously I'll give you one more example and shut your mouth for good:
Why Euro DotA is so behind? Because they dont have quality support players, thats why. All their legends are carry/gankers with the exception of NS and Pusher and even these two are nothing really special. But why is that? Isnt support so easy anybody can pick and play? What is the reason man? You dont have an answer to this so dont bother replaying.
europe is behind cause they don't have as good team play as chinese plus their individual skills are behind too. i now what -apm doesn't matter in DotA that much, but when all Ehome team have 200 -apm when DTS have 100-150, it says something. their is nothign to it, people made a fuse from NS, for example, commentators - after a normal-ussual swap saving the carry, goes like:

"OMG!!! sick swap, NS is the best venge player in the world, well maybe just in europe but still."

i mean if he hadn't swaped him, i would go like - OMG idiot why didn't he swaped. there is nothing special to it

carry is harder, first of all it takes a lot of skill to control lane, no matter if you are semi-carry/carry as storm soling mid,, or sittign in trilane with traxex as hard carry. all the pressure is on you, good carry player has to be focused every single second and get the most of every single situation. second, a carry player always has a dillema, which takes really good sense of game to solve - help your team to def or fight in the situation or go farm - choice is his if he makes a bad choice and his team loose teh figth of it could be a game - or if he tp's to help on false alarm now he lost 20 cs, again bad. carry has to make the most of it of every single situation from teh start to teh begining of the game. and ONE mistake can cost your team a game - simple example gettign picked off with no revive gold late game - you loose two raxes while reviving. all the pressure is on 1-2 main carries in team - they have to be the best players in team, they can't make any mistakes. BTW maelk started to play necro for a reason, he is the most experienced player in MYM.

watch a replay with locked camera on zsmj, his desicions are so sick, so precise.

it takes a great player to play a good suport - it takes a robot to play a good carry
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:09 PM   #17
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europe is behind cause they don't have as good team play as chinese plus their individual skills are behind too. i now what -apm doesn't matter in DotA that much, but when all Ehome team have 200 -apm when DTS have 100-150, it says something.

carry is harder, first of all it takes a lot of skill to control lane, no matter if you are semi-carry/carry as storm soling mid,, or sittign in trilane with traxex as hard carry. all the pressure is on you, good carry player has to be focused every single second and get the most of every single situation. second, a carry player always has a dillema, which takes really good sense of game to solve - help your team to def or fight in the situation or go farm - choice is his if he makes a bad choice and his team loose teh figth of it could be a game - or if he tp's to help on false alarm now he lost 20 cs, again bad. carry has to make the most of it of every single situation from teh start to teh begining of the game. and ONE mistake can cost your team a game - simple example gettign picked off with no revive gold late game - you loose two raxes while reviving. all the pressure is on two 1-2 main carries in team - they have to be the best payers in team, they can't make any mistakes.

watch a replay with locked camera on zsmj, his desicions are so sick, so precise.
Nice, you started making sense. I will drop this asia thing I said before, irrelevant now.

All you said is true however there are 3 very important things.
1st its not the carry's decision always. The team must have good communications if it wants to succeed so yes, the team has influence on the carry's decisions. If they tell him its not needed for him to TP back, they can hold it and he should go farm different line he has to cooperate.
2nd You watch only one side of the coin - the carry. And even more - 1 situation where the carry is only one. This thing happens rarely nowadays when we have 1 trilane and 2 solo. Lines. This means at least 2 people need to control their line and farm fast. The pressure is devided. Sure the medusa will have most impact in late game but in the beginning one rhasta could be very and I mean VERY damn important. See? And its not even the carry hero more like pusher and later, yes, supporter. Roles are not set in stone. The pressure is not focused on one player only during the entire game.
3rd These carry players have naturally more gold and better items. Which also means buybacks and aegis. Imagine a squishy support hero 60 minutes into the game with farmed storm creeping in the woods. Imagine this hero having very important spells like hex and he must totally execute them before he gets instagibbed by the farmed opposition. Now imagine a morph with full inventory waveforming in and starting to right click shit not caring whats happening around him.

Again I am not trying to say support is the hardest role. All I am saying is that there are heroes which skills and role make them harder to play right. Enigma is one such example - a gamebreaking hero who can win the game or lose it in several seconds. And we have Alchemist who can charge in without caring wtf will happen cuz he is fed up and rocking an ultimate bro!
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:15 PM   #18
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EHome Lion vs ToT (08/01/10)

EHOME's popular solo mid Lion (played by X!!) farms a quick dagger treads and carries the game through his ganking and initiation.
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:25 PM   #19
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no no no, i ain't talking about farming lion or rhasta. when i'm saying suport i mean the ward bitch with no farm/early ganker/one skill hero late game. i would call a solo lion semi-carry, the game is on him. and again I ain't talking just about hard carries, i'm talking about all the farming heroes. which ussually are 3. these guys have to be the best players in the team. there is a reason why 2009 from lgd.sgty played their solo mid almost everytime, the game was on him and he was the best player in their team. when he left the other two main players - ZSMJ and YYF started to solo mid. a farming rhasta is no suport, what's the diffrence from solo mid lion, solo rhasta or solo storm. storm is semi-carry/carry, meanwhile if rhasta solos, gets bots, dagger, agha under 30 mins, that's no suport (but everyone insists on calling him that way), that's the main hero in their team.

hard carry is not the hardest role, the hardest role is usually the solo mid, like storm, nevermore, lion or others. let's call it semi-carry\ganker. i dunno it's hard to name solo lions role, but is definitely not just suport. i mean he is the main carry for his team in the game until like minute 30.

WD, venge, cm, not solo lion, other ward bitches with no farm is way easier to play than any other role.

EDIT:

another thing i remembered from ESWC:
remember Kurok playing in Nirvana.int for the ESWC. he is the carry/semi-carry player (morph, lanaya). the fun part was he could not play it well at this kinda lvl of games. finally he ended up playing suports (WD) for the last few games with nirvana.int and he doesn't play suport at all. it's like:

"you suck dude - here play a suport"
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:38 PM   #20
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Yeah, Support is usually an easier job. Mainly because of the lower expectations the team has from you after early-game. A Carry must not die, ever... He is the one who is supposed to do all and better not fuck up anytime >.< It's a lot of pressure.

Its also mainly a preference thing... Some people just can't do it regardless of their individual skill. I'm proud to say it is the role I'm most fit to fill.

Regarding amazing players GX is a standard nowadays, CH from the same team plays a more aggresive support style. (Almost always Venge).

Pusher is one I remember frondly that isn't chinese Really don't think there are many renown players of this role..
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:56 PM   #21
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remember Kurok playing in Nirvana.int for the ESWC. he is the carry/semi-carry player (morph, lanaya). the fun part was he could not play it well at this kinda lvl of games. finally he ended up playing suports (WD) for the last few games with nirvana.int and he doesn't play suport at all. it's like:

"you suck dude - here play a suport"
I noticed that too and I agree with everything he said. Suport is the easiest role in Dota.
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Old 09-07-2010, 07:58 PM   #22
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no no no, i ain't talking about farming lion or rhasta. when i'm saying suport i mean the ward bitch with no farm/early ganker/one skill hero late game. i would call a solo lion semi-carry, the game is on him. and again I ain't talking just about hard carries, i'm talking about all the farming heroes. which ussually are 3. these guys have to be the best players in the team. there is a reason why 2009 from lgd.sgty played their solo mid almost everytime, the game was on him and he was the best player in their team. when he left the other two main players - ZSMJ and YYF started to solo mid. a farming rhasta is no suport, what's the diffrence from solo mid lion, solo rhasta or solo storm. storm is semi-carry/carry, meanwhile if rhasta solos, gets bots, dagger, agha under 30 mins, that's no suport (but everyone insists on calling him that way), that's the main hero in their team.

hard carry is not the hardest role, the hardest role is usually the solo mid, like storm, nevermore, lion or others. let's call it semi-carry\ganker. i dunno it's hard to name solo lions role, but is definitely not just suport. i mean he is carrying the game until like minute 30.

WD, venge, cm, not solo lion, ward bitches with no farm is way easier to play than any other role.

EDIT:

another thing i remembered from ESWC, remember Kurok playing in Nirvana.int for the ESWC. he is the carry/semi-carry player (morph, lanaya). the fun part was he could not play it well at this kinda lvl of games. finally he ended up playing suports (WD) for the last few games with nirvana.int. it's like:

"you suck dude - here play a suport"
Yea I understand what you are talking about. However nowadays the 3-core strat is pretty much dead. And what I assume you are saying is - the 3 heroes who farm the 3 lines are most important therefore harder to execute and need more skilled players, right? In a nutshell thats what you are trying to say. Thats nice but I have to disagree again. Roles are way too fluid like I said before. Tell me would you consider an enigma soloing a line part of the 3 core and therefore a carry/semi-carry? A Dark Seer soloing and fighting the creeps behind tower a part of the 3 core and therefore again carry/semi-carry? What if they are part of a tri-line(but lets say jungling while supporting the line), would you say they are support? Usually one hero buys wards the entire time, like you said the CM, WD, Venge, etc, do you consider only these heroes support? Its way too vague man. You see, one hero can buy all the wards but another place them, a hero could be put in line to counter another specific line. For example a sand king countering broodmother. Does it make him a carry/semi carry or he remans initiation/support? Or you could say he is a ganker but WD and CM can gank pretty well. Venge is maybe the best ganker there is so why they are shunned into the support role?

If you have one player constantly being stuck playing CM and similar heroes, buying wards and stuff you cant automatically say he is the worst in the team and thats why he has the easiest role. He is simply the person willing to sacrifice what most people find fun to bring the victory home. Thats why I dont like how people always put the carry players with most kills and biggest items in front and glorify them while the hard workers are in the shadow. And now saying that their job is not only thankless but the easiest possible? Too much I'd say.

As for the thing about mid solo - every line is important not only mid. And teams dont put their best player in the mid, just the player who is most specialized for the job. 2009 was 1v1 solo mid champion so he was an obvious choice to sit there every game. Doesnt make him better than the others(other qualities maybe do but not this), just better at what he does in his preferred postion and line.
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:17 PM   #23
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TO CLEAR THINGS UP:

for me a true suport is just those four heroes, mainly it would be dazzle, jakiro, not solo wl, etc. too but they don't get picked anymore.

i mean enigma farms, gets dagger, bkb, a good black hole is the game breaker. enigma's teams succes lies in well placed black hole, plus in her maneging to get the needed farm.

carry means, what he is carrying his team, if that black hole wins the game, it looks like carrying to me. you can mix this shit with names: enigma - semicarry/ganker/suport in one hero, but not a true ward bitch suport.

and no matter how the game is played today, still mainly 3 heroes gets most of the farm, no matter if alche at start was in trilane and had 0 cs in 15 mins and started to farm then to his wang, hood, radiance or something. sometimes they have 4 farming heroes and just one true suport.

i mean these guys named NS as one of the best suport players, while he is the true suport player. and i don't see what's so great about his role. it's the easiest role.

but when Miracle is playing Enigma, it can't be counted in the same scale like NS venge or cm or other. it's totally diffrent role.

about Venge: basicly all four main suport are early game gankers, that's one of their jobs. which are harrasing in lane, early ganks, protecting the carry, warding - suporting.

EDIT:

the way i look at the game, it consists of suports and types of carries - early game powerhouses (solo lion), mid game powerhouses (nevermore), late game powerhouses (medusa).

you can't call storm spirit semi-carry if he wins the game in mid game. he carries his team to victory at mid game, hence he is carry

now diffrent stage of the game diffrent carry in front of the team. basicly dark seer gonna be the most important carry early game, storm spirit in mid game, medusa at late game. these three heroes are needed the most.

enigma as carry, is strongest in mid game, while her bkb is fresh and enemies can't live trough this kinda long disable, early game without bkb, her hole is too easy to break, late game carries survives the whole duration of it.

all the other roles like ganker, initiator, pusher just show which way the carry is carrying his team. enigma does that trough initiation, storm is doing that trough ganking, medusa does that trough tanking and farming (mainly called hard carry). some of these are easier to do some of these carrying types are harded
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:29 PM   #24
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Ok got you finally ^^ . Well cant really say anything more. If thats your opinion, so be it. For me they still deny which is in fact a last hit just on allied creep, roam the map, have their game senses and know when to pop up and gank, try their best to grab the enemy's attention and help their carry escape, place wards and overall make the lives of their teammates easier.

Sorry for the reference but they are like deep defenders in a football team. While all eyes are on the attackers and midfielders they are in the dark doing their thing, preventing enemy attacks, destroying ganks with their wards and set up the foundations for a successful push which eventually will read to buldings being destroyed

Well I am a supporter myself, guess thats why I got so much into all this XD

EDIT: now while I do agree there are different types of carry heroes (like how spectre and necrolyte are different and yet still can be lebelled carry) one thing is common - they shine later. In the early stages its all about gankers/initiators. Hence why I consider Dark Seer being gank/initiation, Enigma being gang/initiation, Rhasta being pusher and so on. If you have rhasta as a sole "carry" and 4 supporters who will not get better than him in late game you are obviously aiming for a fast win. So yes, in some games there are no carries at all. I've seen it before, LGD has done it with ZSMJ being Sven/Puck/Venge. Its a valid strategy. Carry is not everything.
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Old 09-07-2010, 08:38 PM   #25
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so all in all our debate is just about what you call what. i mean you can easily explain what enigma is suporter/initiator, when i call it carry/initiator.

i think OP asked about the true ward bitch suports here. which i think is the easiest role in game. while the types of roles which you call suports - like solo lion, enigma, etc. are very hard to play IMO. they have great impact on the game and that's why i like to put carry word in their role.

nice talking with you anyway

edit:


that sven/puck/venge early game domination strat, is again carrying the game in early game. so puck, sven was the carries, who got fast items, i guess daggers and carried their team to victory (you can't say there was no carries - for me carry is flexible term), i didn't saw the game, so i dunno for sure, what really happened.

you call carries just late gamers, while i would call panda with dagger and agha a carry, which has the most power in mid game.
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:27 PM   #26
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BTW, the reason that I think EHome's supporters are that good is because 820, and the other supporter was previously carries for their team and decided to all switch their role.

Therefore, 820 knows exactly what a carry needs to be able to carry (nice ganking/warding/counterganking etc) as he was previously one knowing his strength and ability to carry was only because of the amazing support. If you tend to look at them when they finally get a chance to last hit atleast 3-5 creeps, they don't miss a single one. I think this makes a huge difference than a supporter whom takes their very limited farming chances for granted and mess up than one whom got every single creep fromt hat wave, giving him a potential early Treads/Wards/Counterwards.

I personally don't think there is a best supporter in the game but, best teamwork which goes to EHome. If you look at anyone of their games, their supporters without a doubt never obtain a single death without contributing what they had to in a teambattle. They know how to position themselves properly in fights (one of the key things for a supporter), who to focus and when to focus them and when to ward.

They tend to get their items amazingly fast compared to other supporters out there and I think the main reason for that is because they were previously carry players. Their boots usually comes at 5:xx minutes and their Treads, RoB and Wards at 10-15. That's really good IMO, seeing other supporters getting their boots at 10+ minutes etc and struggling to get wards.

As synderene said, "The asians do not dominate because their carries, carry well but because they are able to because of the epic support they have."
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:30 PM   #27
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i know i'm gonna get flamed for this, but think before you make an opinion:

what role would you choose to play if you would suddenly need to stand in for EHOME in some tournament?

would you want to play cm or traxex?
I think out of those two CM feeds the most? I dunno, one hero who grows fat on DPS items and has nothing to do but autoattack, and another hero who has to place wards carefully and time spell combos precisely? I think the answer is quite obvious
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:57 PM   #28
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I think out of those two CM feeds the most? I dunno, one hero who grows fat on DPS items and has nothing to do but autoattack, and another hero who has to place wards carefully and time spell combos precisely? I think the answer is quite obvious
you serious? read my other posts, i explain why carries are harder to play, ain't gonna repeat myself.
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Old 09-07-2010, 09:59 PM   #29
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you serious?
yeah I was about to ask that to you
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:01 PM   #30
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yeah I was about to ask that to you
man read my arguments i other posts, write yours, then we discuss. now you just trying to flame me. don't try to win discussions using irritation like women do

i'm open for manly disccusion with arguments and other shit

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Old 09-07-2010, 10:03 PM   #31
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I'm not trying to flame, it's just that you don't see which hero out of those 2 has the easiest job
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:06 PM   #32
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I'm not trying to flame, it's just that you don't see which hero out of those 2 has the easiest job
well clearly CM has the eassiest job. all the pressure is on traxex
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:10 PM   #33
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yeah, the CM easiest job, sure.

CM = babysit, place wards carefully, farm her dagger, blink in time frost + ulti, die
Trax = farm farm farm farm, buy treads manta butterfly bkb satanic, autoattack, win

it's a no-brainer
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:16 PM   #34
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yeah, the CM easiest job, sure.

CM = babysit, place wards carefully, farm her blink, blink in time frost + ulti, die
Trax = farm farm farm farm, buy treads manta butterfly bkb, autoattack,
first of all CM gets dagger like in 5 proc of the games and those games are one sided, due to pushed towers she can get a dagger. her ultimate is mostly useless, just in rare occasions it makes any differense earlier in game. there is no chanign with her, just slow and bite, slow and bite and die like the rest of them.

second of all, to actually farm that shit up on traxex, lane with her againts another pro player, control the lane, knowing when to join your team in fight, when to farm, position yourself in the fight, not get picked off while being the main target of everyone, turning your bkb and the right moment, etc. - is fucking hard to do.

btw ain't talkign about pubs, when you can afk farm with any carry and noone cares to gank you - all another story
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:18 PM   #35
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:21 PM   #36
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Skaloon,

with CM you will fail if:
- you don't keep wards in your places supposed to be warded
- you don't get a dagger by lvl 6
- you mistime your spell combos in teamfights
- you feed the other team all too often

with Drow you will fail if:
- you are a terrible farmer/can't lasthit for shit

yes, we're not talking about pubs here, that's why the role of support has 1000000x times the importance that it has in pubs.

If you don't understand man, whatever man, whatever floats your boat. I've had this day with a bunch of trolls in other threads, so I'm out.
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:26 PM   #37
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Skaloon,

with CM you will fail if:
- you don't keep wards in your places supposed to be warded
- you don't get a dagger
- you mistime your spell combos in teamfights
- you feed the other team all too often

with Drow you will fail if:
- you are a terrible farmer

yes, we're not talking about pubs here, that's why the role of support has 1000000x times the importance that it has in pubs.

If you don't understand man, whatever man, whatever floats your boat. I've had this day with a bunch of trolls in other treads, so I'm out.
i repeat myself, any pro player can ward, cm doesn't need a dagger, how can a good player misstime slow and bite? and feeding part is just map awerness, btw you gonna stay with your team anyway.

good farming is far from enough what a good traxex player needs. you can be the best last hitter in the world and still you will fail to carry your team.
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:28 PM   #38
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you are really wrong about this. A carry is not suppose to die, but its not his job. Its mainly support job to keep him alive, unless he is a complete moron and dont b when he is told to. In fact skill that most carries need to have is focused-mechanicam-multilaned+jungle-"lasthitting" and the ability to take orders.

Also carries, dont even actually carry. Face it, a carry is just "pistol" in a captain's hand and support are his eyes and ears
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:29 PM   #39
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Um I completelly disagree that the support role is the easiest. A lot of people explained why and I ll contribute with an example.

I play mainly as a main supporter, secondarry one or a ganger in my teams. And I do like to mix and match in one team. A lot of times I try to put a carry player on the supporting role and they completelly fuck up. Not many people can play without items and not many of them are able to obtain their items with minimum of a farm.

One time I ve been succesful only with putting a hard core carry player playing a secondarry support and gangers - shaker, sand, enigma, ds, rhasta from playing meduza, morf, necro, drow and sf all the time. The results were really amazing giving us a very good win ratio. But most of the times I ve been kicking out of the team the rest carriers that have tried to play these roles.

My point is that playing a good support isnt easy at all. Supports are the most important heros because dead supports = lost team fight because no one can disable and do the hard job while the carry auto attacks. Supporting requeres really a huge game knowledge and this is why a team leader, a veteran player and an ex carry - 820 - is currently the best support player out there nowadays. A team or a player that underestimates the importance of the supports are never going to progress and be good.
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:32 PM   #40
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Actually, I disagree with you Skaloon. Can't believe that I've actually came to agree with this troll.

CM takes much more skill/effort in games, warding/ganking/counter-warding/counter-ganking all with her pathetic MS and gold gain.

Drow usually stays away from all the action as much as possible, farming up in the safe lanes while her carries continue to delay the game/delay the opponent's carries' items till Drow is ready to show up and right click.

A badly positioned CM = a 2 second dead CM.

A mistimed Frostbite/wrong targetted enemy could have cost you a teamfight (I saw a comp. replay of a Gorgon with Rapier on 20HP, enemy Juggernaut with 100 HP ready to one finish off the Gorgon where that Frostbite at the right time and place saved that Rapier and won the game for them.

Even when CM gets her Dagger which she usually does not since she's busy helping out the team via wards/dust etc, she still needs to play it 'safe' and smart whereas Drow can afford to be 'stupid' or cocky since there's always that HotD/BKB/Manta there to back her up whilst all CM has is her 1.2k HP.



tl;dr: Drow is easier than CM.
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