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Old 09-15-2010, 08:26 PM   #1
seacrac
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Default Tri-lane is OP?


I am not talking about pubs but in competitive games. Chinese teams use tri-lanes in almost every games and there is no way to counter it except with your own tri-lane. Thus, 1-1-3 is the dominant laning strategy unless you risk one lane being totally ruined by the opponent's tri-lane. Thoughts?
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:31 PM   #2
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

I almost want to put a Captain Obvious picture in here. Yes, 3-1-1 is the dominant strategy because it's the best way to guarantee maximum farm over your three farmers (2 solo, 1 babysat by 2 supports). But you sometimes end up with your own trilane facing a solo and your solo facing a trilane. Trilane-vs-solo is an easy situation for you but if it's the other way round, your solo will probably end up underleveled, somewhat underfarmed and forced to play very passively. But even this situation is favourable to 2-1-2 because having two heroes against a trilane simply results in an underfarmed carry and useless support hero, and having two heroes against their solo is often not enough to control the lane properly (for example, if that solo is Windrunner).
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:48 PM   #3
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

Yes, the era lane of dual lane is over.

They've went so far as to sometimes leaving the entire lane open.

Anyway, ever since this tri-laning got popular alot of heroes ran away from the spotlight. Great dual laners such as SK/Lina/PotM/Sven/Spectre/Panda/Slardar/PotM/Ursa etc and even if they are picked, they still have to change their playstyle as they can't afford to be as aggressive as if it was a dual lane they are up against.

We've came to see new picks such as Veno/WR/Enigma(solo)/Drow/Lion(solo)/THD/etc all because strong solo laners are needed in this era or because Range is an important factor in the tri-laning stages therefore leaving SK/Panda/Slardar, etc in the dust.

It's not OP but it does require alot of constant relocating yourself in terms of positioning, capitilizing on enemies mistakes (their bad positioning or choices), teamwork, chain disabling, your decisions (who to aim/when to disable, etc) and synergy with the 3 heroes picked (atleast 2 stuns and a carry for a tri-lane).

What do I think about tri-lanes?

I hate it TBH.

It completely ruins the fun factor in the game as the roaming role is almost non existent now since heroes are usually occupied in the tri-lane vs tri-lane already.

The replays are more boring to watch since there are now two solo lanes competing against each other in last-hitting.

There are less ganks occuring (atleast in the earlier stages of the game) since it's pretty obvious when one is going to occur knowing that a hero/es are missing from the tri-lane.

Warding is not required now since the game is more based on laning more than ever so there's less strategy involved, IMO.


New strategies will always come around, some providing to be more beneficial than the other and players will tend to stick to it. It doesn't matter if it's boring or not, they only care about what wins games and what loses games and tri-laning is one of those strategies that wins them.
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

^I tend to ward if I'm in the more passive tri-lane, and my carry is safe with just a support for a bit.
i.e, Morph+WD+Tide.
Me on tide I would roam between mid and my lane
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:58 PM   #5
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

thats why you should play mid-skilled games, dual lanes and 1 solo, some cm pub games are actualy fun(playing serious)
even i suck with CM i managed to get 0-7-32 easly cuz its good enough, it was only 1 noob in that game, no need to play games where people trilane if you just play for fun and not somewhere you get damn serious
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by s.ops_Freak View Post
Yes, the era lane of dual lane is over.

They've went so far as to sometimes leaving the entire lane open.

Anyway, ever since this tri-laning got popular alot of heroes ran away from the spotlight. Great dual laners such as SK/Lina/PotM/Sven/Spectre/Panda/Slardar/PotM/Ursa etc and even if they are picked, they still have to change their playstyle as they can't afford to be as aggressive as if it was a dual lane they are up against.

We've came to see new picks such as Veno/WR/Enigma(solo)/Drow/Lion(solo)/THD/etc all because strong solo laners are needed in this era or because Range is an important factor in the tri-laning stages therefore leaving SK/Panda/Slardar, etc in the dust.

It's not OP but it does require alot of constant relocating yourself in terms of positioning, capitilizing on enemies mistakes (their bad positioning or choices), teamwork, chain disabling, your decisions (who to aim/when to disable, etc) and synergy with the 3 heroes picked (atleast 2 stuns and a carry for a tri-lane).

What do I think about tri-lanes?

I hate it TBH.

It completely ruins the fun factor in the game as the roaming role is almost non existent now since heroes are usually occupied in the tri-lane vs tri-lane already.

The replays are more boring to watch since there are now two solo lanes competing against each other in last-hitting.

There are less ganks occuring (atleast in the earlier stages of the game) since it's pretty obvious when one is going to occur knowing that a hero/es are missing from the tri-lane.

Warding is not required now since the game is more based on laning more than ever so there's less strategy involved, IMO.


New strategies will always come around, some providing to be more beneficial than the other and players will tend to stick to it. It doesn't matter if it's boring or not, they only care about what wins games and what loses games and tri-laning is one of those strategies that wins them.
True enough. I was about to post in the OP how the replays had gotten more boring with 2 solo lanes and 1 tri-lane, where all the actions occured in the tri-lane with basically no gank at all. After the laning phase, it turns into 5v5 team battles. Ganking is dead (although it long had, since the 6.64 era).
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:02 PM   #7
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

Quote:
Originally Posted by s.ops_Freak View Post
What do I think about tri-lanes?

I hate it TBH.

It completely ruins the fun factor in the game as the roaming role is almost non existent now since heroes are usually occupied in the tri-lane vs tri-lane already.

Fair enough. Less roaming

The replays are more boring to watch since there are now two solo lanes competing against each other in last-hitting.

WTF? It's a three-ring circus. Watch the TRILANES! Why would you sit and stare at a farming solo? The farming heroes become exciting later, and the trilane is the pre-show entertainment then.

There are less ganks occuring (atleast in the earlier stages of the game) since it's pretty obvious when one is going to occur knowing that a hero/es are missing from the tri-lane.

And on the other hand, early game has gone from lasting 20 minutes down to lasting 10 minutes.

Warding is not required now since the game is more based on laning more than ever so there's less strategy involved, IMO.

Fair enough. I would argue the strategy has shifted from lane-to-lane combat toward the action contained within one tight area, before exploding outward.
I really think it's the best thing to ever happen to competitive DotA.
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:03 PM   #8
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

never thought of that in this way, very n1 explanation
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:10 PM   #9
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

Watching the tri-lanes itself is pretty much boring as well IMO...

Reason being is because it tends to get too repetitive/obvious on what's going to happen and who they're going to aim first (seeing that Venge stunning x hero, CM 'nova'ing' x hero and Morph finishing x hero off with Waveform isn't entertaining at all..).

I'd much the dual laning times where people actually had more time to respond to enemies, heroes wouldn't be so underleveled all the time and people could actually afford to leave the lane without worrying about their allies getting ripped to shreds.

With dual lanes, there was much more action in all 3 lanes rather than ALL the action included in one lane where everything is too obvious to entertain the viewers (atleast me).

Well what I'm trying to say here is, dual lanes provided more entertainment for viewers but in the end tri-laning will always be the more dominant strategy to win games no matter how boring/repetitive it is.
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:25 PM   #10
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

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Originally Posted by s.ops_Freak View Post
Well what I'm trying to say here is, dual lanes provided more entertainment for viewers but in the end tri-laning will always be the more dominant strategy to win games no matter how boring/repetitive it is.
I mean, that's not entirely true. If IceFrog decided he disliked trilanes, it's quite possible to alter EXP gain by adding dummy units (On Unit Death -> if dying unit is a lane creep -> grab all hero units in 1k AoE, if there's more than 3, create some dummy hero units, or reduce the exp bounty on the dying unit.)

Storm Spirit while, for example, gets less exp gain from killing with his ult because of the dummy unit created while he ROFL's is hero-based.

So, it's entirely possible to "nerf trilanes."
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Last edited by Varuka; 09-15-2010 at 09:37 PM.
Old 09-15-2010, 09:26 PM   #11
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

zomg imba nerfplox
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:46 PM   #12
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

seriously, stop crying - few months ago everyone cried about turtle strats. how "boring" that was and shit, now trilanes are boring too? as far as i remember every single dominating startegy in competitive games was called "boring" for two years or so till now. damn i think it's not two years it's even more, competitive DotA was "boring" from the begining. remember the uncancelable dagger Era - every single gank ended by the guy who got ganked blinking the fuck out. if we could get some threads from those times, i think we would find guys talking about how "boring" DotA is. BTW, there was always a lot of "Boring" farming, positioning, turtling in DotA.

so if DotA is so "boring" why the hell to we play it, why the hell do we watch thsoe replays, why the fuck are we even discusing this "boring" game here?

just shut up and enjoy the game - which is really interesting. the positioning in trilanes by pros are so fun too see. and there are a lot of mid game fights these days, games actually got shorter and so on.
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:51 PM   #13
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

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seriously, stop crying - few months ago everyone cried about turtle strats. how "boring" that was and shit, now trilanes are boring too? as far as i remember every single dominating startegy in competitive games was called "boring" for two years or so till now. damn i think it's not two years it's even more, competitive DotA was "boring" from the begining. remember the uncancelable dagger Era - every single gank ended by the guy who got ganked blinking the fuck out. if we could get some threads from those times, i think we would find guys talking about how "boring" DotA is. BTW, there was always a lot of "Boring" farming, positioning, turtling in DotA.

so if DotA is so "boring" why the hell to we play it, why the hell do we watch thsoe replays, why the fuck are we even discusing this "boring" game here?

just shut up and enjoy the game
Same can be said for school.

Why do we play it? Because it's actually more fun doing so than watching most of the replays.

Why do we watch the replays? To educate ourself on what's happening in the competitive scene and to improve our individual/team skill by observing and analyzing what the pros do.

Why are we discussing it? Because that's what forums are created for.
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:52 PM   #14
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

What if your 2/2/1 lineup has the 1 person against a trilane, and the dual lanes against a solo? If you have strong laners that way you can do a pretty good job at not giving 2 of their solo heroes farm, whereas they'll only be limiting one of your solo's.

Might be stating the obvious here but even though I agree a trilane should be faced with either another trilane or a solo lane, I think a 2/2/1 could still be put up against it. Downside is you don't know where their trilane will be. If you have 3 heroes that could all hold a solo against a trilane you'd only need the supports to go to the right lane.
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:59 PM   #15
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

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Originally Posted by s.ops_Freak View Post
Same can be said for school.

Why do we play it? Because it's actually more fun doing so than watching most of the replays.

Why do we watch the replays? To educate ourself on what's happening in the competitive scene and to improve our individual/team skill by observing and analyzing what the pros do.

Why are we discussing it? Because that's what forums are created for.
but it's not boring at all. damn those turtle starts was so interesting, you just have to see the little things, think about them, look at the positioning and so on. and now these games became way more action packed than they were few months ago and people are still crying how boring they are. almost everytime you can see 4x4, 3x4 or 3x3 fights before creeps spawn - due to trilanes. what can be more interesting? i don't get it.
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Old 09-15-2010, 10:03 PM   #16
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

nvm
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Old 09-15-2010, 10:07 PM   #17
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

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Surprise! It comes from the chinese players, who INVENTED boring play. First ricing till minute x and rightclick, now that.
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Old 09-15-2010, 10:07 PM   #18
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

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What if your 2/2/1 lineup has the 1 person against a trilane, and the dual lanes against a solo? If you have strong laners that way you can do a pretty good job at not giving 2 of their solo heroes farm, whereas they'll only be limiting one of your solo's.

Might be stating the obvious here but even though I agree a trilane should be faced with either another trilane or a solo lane, I think a 2/2/1 could still be put up against it. Downside is you don't know where their trilane will be. If you have 3 heroes that could all hold a solo against a trilane you'd only need the supports to go to the right lane.
This is actually quite an interesting idea. The downside is that if a team runs 1-1-3 they nearly always put their solo in mid. Which means you're gonna have to put a dual lane in mid, also from the solo mid position even against two heroes it's not hard to get farm (e.g. With long-range Shadow Raze) and you don't have the advantage of having a "mid solo" who can utilise the runes. After all, if you send one of your dual-laners from mid to grab the rune your opposing solo is going to farm which defeats the purpose of dual-laning it in the first place.
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Well I told you that last couple of years but as far I see nobody is deny anymore in Dota2 guess now all people realized that deny is useless
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Old 09-15-2010, 10:31 PM   #19
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

are you kidding me? trilanes are incredibly fun to watch. 10x more interesting than watching 2 range heroes harass the other team's melee hero in the lane. last hit battles are a thing of the past (except for maybe a bit solo vs solo).

small amounts of roaming is still beneficial. you just don't see stupid things like perma-lvl 1-roaming ES, which was a stupid idea imo b/c it relied on your enemy not having sufficient warding
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Old 09-15-2010, 10:31 PM   #20
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

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This is actually quite an interesting idea. The downside is that if a team runs 1-1-3 they nearly always put their solo in mid. Which means you're gonna have to put a dual lane in mid, also from the solo mid position even against two heroes it's not hard to get farm (e.g. With long-range Shadow Raze) and you don't have the advantage of having a "mid solo" who can utilise the runes. After all, if you send one of your dual-laners from mid to grab the rune your opposing solo is going to farm which defeats the purpose of dual-laning it in the first place.
There's possible mitigating strategies for that. Putting one or two "hard deny" heroes mid (Enigma / Lich) could work.. or a hard deny and a soft carry. (PotM, lich)

You could then also roam one of the two from mid, reducing pressure on your other two lanes in a way the Trilane team would have a harder time responding to.

Even saying this sounds a little ridiculous.. but I'd give it a try.
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Old 09-15-2010, 10:32 PM   #21
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

I say its time for all mid strategy
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Old 09-16-2010, 12:49 AM   #22
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

0-5-0 anyone?
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Old 09-16-2010, 01:32 AM   #23
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

Pretty sure DotA is meant to be played and not watched.
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:10 AM   #24
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

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Pretty sure DotA is meant to be played and not watched.
Soccer/Football/Tennis/Golf/Basketball, the list goes on.
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:15 AM   #25
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

My prediction is that even if dota itself is unchanged, this current dominant strategy will change again. I think it's interesting that new strategies come and go like this, and I don't think the tri-lane games themselves are boring.
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Old 09-16-2010, 04:09 AM   #26
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

I find it kidna interesting actually, but I agree with karadoc.
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Old 09-16-2010, 05:04 AM   #27
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

I think it is a pretty good bet to let a solo against the trilane because it means 2 vs 1 + 2 vs 1 for the other lanes
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:52 AM   #28
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

Usually its 1v1, 1v1, and 3v3
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:56 AM   #29
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

Tri lanes are not OP. They're just hard to counter.
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:56 AM   #30
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

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Damn i think it's not two years it's even more, competitive DotA was "boring" from the begining.
That's the point every pro-DotA thread contain. But global strategies are always shifting, with remakes and trend changes. And having strategy mirror every game... Well, it's common for dota, but breaking this tendency is nearly impossible.
At least, you can enjoy innovations every time metagame/trend shifts. It's less boring than playing a game for 5 years or more to see same things over and over again, even if it involves more strategies. Watch some old RTS games if you want an example.

And, after all, you always can play some CM pubs or not-so-serious inhouses trying something new just for fun.

Competetive games vs fun games are just like real warfare vs action movies - they are about different things.

BTW, a rare sight of a trilane raped by soloer really worth all described "boredom".
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:53 AM   #31
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

Trilanes can be "beaten" (you survive and farm a bit), you just have to choose one pick to fuck that tri lane.

I have done it easily solo with
Ezalor, pitlord, seer

I have done easily 2 vs 3 with
Omni + ranged (i did it with drow and razor)
silencer + abbadon

I have done it hard (got killed but i got some farm)
Alchemist leveling acid

And i bet there are even better ways.
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Old 09-16-2010, 11:49 AM   #32
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

MYM does that alot I've seen them do that alot in pub inhouses wars. it's pretty amazing how talentivly skilled they are but yes they play for the moneyzzzz.
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:08 PM   #33
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

i personally hate trilanes because u mostly have to trilane to counter them...
but against 2stunners/1ricer tri lane, ezalor is doing wonders :]
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:51 PM   #34
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

It makes me sad. Because Tri-Lanes means no space to pick Chen. Chen is awesome. I hope the metagame shifts with the new update. I think tri-laning should be disencouraged, I have the feeling it wasn't intended in the game's design, but the again, I'm not IceFrog either.
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Ulfar the Wendigo
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Old 09-16-2010, 02:57 PM   #35
fr0zenknife
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

Imho, creeps should only give exp when there is 2 heroes at most.
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Old 09-16-2010, 03:00 PM   #36
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

Or, you know, you could just get WR and put her up against the enemy tri-lane, then dual-lane both their solos. Only one person on their team could get any farm at all.
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Old 09-16-2010, 04:31 PM   #37
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

I don't really think its appropriate to call a lane configuration OP, as it is something both teams can do. Conversely, a hero can be "OP" because only one team can have it.

With tri-lane you can either beat it with a better tri-lane, or send a hero like WR and have her try and handle it.

But yes, it would seem tri-lanes are the dominant play style this version. Probably because of the continuous bonuses to assists (aoe gold,exp) for the past few versions.
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:48 PM   #38
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

i say who cares since both teams can form a tri-lane (and both only one)
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:11 PM   #39
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

A Rhasta + Ursa lane rapes those trilanes. Now add in a Sven TP'ing from the top lane to assist, it's a fucking hell.
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Old 09-16-2010, 07:35 PM   #40
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Default Re: Tri-lane is OP?

^ rhasta eats stun = profit? ursa dmg output is nothing great on low lvls either. also, why the fuck does sven have to come from top lane???
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