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Old 09-25-2010, 06:47 PM   #1
Lithary
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Lightbulb Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.


Mangix the Pandaren Brewmaster is one of my favorite heroes in DotA and for that reason, of course, I have to mess him up to be more to my likings. ^^
Before I start, here is link for Mangix, Pandaren Brewmaster as he is now so you can compare him to my version.
But, I will list some changes I made anyway so you will know what to look at.

Changes:
1 - Improved stats and stat growth a bit.
2 - Remade Thunder Clap into Pandaren Clap.
3 - Rescaled how Drunken Haze levels up.
4 - Changed how Drunken Brawler works.
5 - All skills are made so that they have better synergy (i.e. Drunken Haze doubles fire damage from Pandaren Clap).
6 - Increased mana cost of Primal Split and increased duration.
7 - Changed Pandaren Warriors stats (health, damage, some skills, etc) and added some other special bonuses for Aghanim's Scepter upgrade (one of them is that Pandaren Warriors get certain bonuses based on Pandaren Brewmasters stats and more) and Aghanim's Scepter effect.

Hope this list helped you.
Just remember, this is a rough list of changes.
I will make more detailed info next to the skills and will put reasons why I did it.
That part is going to be called 'pre-notes' (I hope that's the right expression), just remember to read everything properly before giving me T-up/down.
I will know if you didn't read it (because I am standing right behind you)!
Anyway, lets get down to business, shall we?



Mangix





Pre-notes:
Reason why I made this change is because I've nerfed his ultimate and made its strength depend more on attributes.

Strength (primary attribute): 23 + 3
Agility: 17 + 2
Intelligence: 15 + 1.25

Rest of the stats should be same as they are.





Pre-notes:




This is actually 1st thing I wanted to change at Mangix (I came up with rest while posting this skill and just have expanded it ).
While his old Thunder Clap is great skill I still don't like that it's based on Earth and Storm and that Fire has been left out, so I made it into a Pandaren Clap, a skill that involves all 3 elements and is actually different from Ursa Warriors Earthshock.
Final damage is same as Thunder Clap (100 physical + 100 magical + 25x5 universal damage = 300, just like the current Clap), while the big change is that I've made him use 3 types of damage and added an effect for every element in that skill (0.25 mini-stun for Earth, 50% slow for 4 sec after mini-stun for Storm and special synergy with Drunken Haze for Fire) so it fits Storm/Earth/Fire theme.
This is all made so that it makes him more unique and better hero.
Here is link for his current Thunder Clap.
In case this complicates skill too much, then just change it to this: Rename it to Pandaren Clap and add a fire effect to it (purely visual), but make unit under Drunken Haze effect be set on fire and receive 5/10/10/20 magical damage per second for next 5 seconds.




Mangix slams the ground and invokes the power of elements to destroy his enemies in 400 AOE around him.

Level 1 - Deals 25 earth damage, 25 lighting damage and burns enemies with fire damage for 5 sec with 10 damage per second.
Also, stuns enemies for 0.25 sec and slows their attack and movement speed by 20% for 4 seconds after the stun.

Level 2 - Deals 50 earth damage, 50 lighting damage and burns enemies with fire damage for 5 sec with 15 damage per second.
Also, stuns enemies for 0.25 sec and slows their attack and movement speed by 30% for 4 seconds after the stun.

Level 3 - Deals 75 earth damage, 75 lighting damage and burns enemies with fire damage for 5 sec with 20 damage per second.
Also, stuns enemies for 0.25 sec and slows their movement attack and speed by 40% for 4 seconds after the stun.

Level 4 - Deals 100 earth damage, 100 lighting damage and burns enemies with fire damage for 5 sec with 25 damage per second.
Also, stuns enemies for 0.25 sec and slows their attack and movement speed by 50% for 4 seconds after the stun.

Mana cost: 90/110/130/150 MP
Cooldown: 12 sec.

Notes:
Earth damage is actually physical damage, lighting damage is actually magical damage and fire damage is actually universal damage.
Effect of Pandaren Clap should stay same as it is except that clap should have some fire explosion added or something and burning enemies should have burning effect on them.


Changelog:
• January the 4th, 2011:
- Removed a bit forced synergy between Pandaren Clap and Primal Split that would cause Pandaren Clap to be preformed every time Primal Split is activated.
- Reduced mana cost of Primal Split from 125/200/275 MP to 100/150/200 MP.


• June the 22th, 2011:
- Updated the suggestion (added aura feature to Earth).
- Removed suggestion that Storm, Earth and Fire should get renamed.




Anyway, that's that.
I will decorate this even better when I get the time and will add rest of icons when I find them, but this is it for now.
If you don't understand something ask and I will do my best to explain it.
Also, I would appreciate proper criticism instead of 'This sux, T-down!!1' or 'I hate this hero, should be removed from the game. T-DOWN!' and similar.
All tips and advices are more than welcome!
Also, don't wonder if you see any typos or some nonsense here like 'gives Mangix 1009 damage' or something like that.
Also, if someone makes a test map for him, I would be very grateful.
I'm dyslexic so stuff like that happens.
So, that's that.
Only thing I can do now is give you a link to two songs that fit Mangix the Pander Brewmaster the best (link are here and here), enjoy and cheers.


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Last edited by Lithary; 05-25-2013 at 03:12 PM.
Old 09-25-2010, 07:04 PM   #2
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Can you please list the changes? It's hard going through it all.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:19 PM   #3
Lithary
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lord God View Post
Can you please list the changes? It's hard going through it all.
I was afraid someone might ask that.
The reason why I gave links to original stats of Mangix and his Warriors is because I was to lazy to do it my self and was hoping no one will ask me to list them if I do that.
Anyway, I'll do it. *breathes heavily*
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Last edited by Lithary; 09-25-2010 at 07:36 PM.
Old 09-25-2010, 07:22 PM   #4
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Just mark them in some color, or bolden them.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:37 PM   #5
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Added a list of changes in the description at the beginning.
Hope it helps.
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Having dynamic cooldowns is not very feasible. Requires many instances of the same skill.

Anyway, I do like all three of the new proposed skills and even the dynamic synergy between them. The ultimate you have just complicated a lot with the +1 x for every y, and I don't really think it's necessary, nor will it be too effective. Remove some of it (atleast in the skill cooldowns), and if you can, I'd love to see if you could make it more synergetic with his normal skills.

Else, a hearty T-Up!
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Old 09-25-2010, 07:48 PM   #7
Lithary
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Lord God View Post
Having dynamic cooldowns is not very feasible. Requires many instances of the same skill.

Anyway, I do like all three of the new proposed skills and even the dynamic synergy between them. The ultimate you have just complicated a lot with the +1 x for every y, and I don't really think it's necessary, nor will it be too effective. Remove some of it (atleast in the skill cooldowns), and if you can, I'd love to see if you could make it more synergetic with his normal skills.

Else, a hearty T-Up!
Thanks, I will try my best, but give me some time to think everything up.
I actually thought all this on the spot so it's best I could come up for now.
I'm preparing 3 more remakes, 6 hero ideas, 1 item idea and various other ideas for now so it takes some time to make it all look good.
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Old 09-25-2010, 08:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
1 - Improved stats and stat growth a bit.
2 - Remade Thunder Clap into Pander Clap.
3 - Rescaled how Drunken Haze levels up.
4 - Changed how Drunken Brawler works.
5 - All skills are made so that they have better synergy (i.e. Drunken Haze doubles fire damage from Pander Clap).
6 - Increased mana cost of Primal Split and increased duration.
7 - Changed Pander Warriors stats (health, damage, some skills, etc) and added some other special bonuses for Aghanim's Scepter upgrade (one of them is that Pander Warriors get certain bonuses based on Pander Brewmasters stats and more) and Aghanim's Scepter effect.
8 - Changed Pander Warriors names from Earth, Fire and Storm to Earth Warrior, Fire Warrior and Storm Warrior.
2. hard to calculate damage, it makes him uncomfortable to play or play vs himso. T-DOWN.
3. u make haze useless before leveling 3-4 times. T-DOWN.
4. uncodeable. T-DOWN.
5. Nice.
6. For what?
7. What's the changes? Write full list of changes.
8. I prefer "panda", not "warrior".
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Old 09-25-2010, 09:16 PM   #9
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Changes:
1 - Improved stats and stat growth a bit.
Not needed, IMO. T-Down.
2 - Remade Thunder Clap into Pander Clap.
I love it. T-Up.
3 - Rescaled how Drunken Haze levels up.
Not sure about this; but T-Up.
4 - Changed how Drunken Brawler works.
Another excellent remake. T-Up.
6 - Increased mana cost of Primal Split and increased duration.
Not needed. T-Down.
7 - Changed Pander Warriors stats (health, damage, some skills, etc) and added some other special bonuses for Aghanim's Scepter upgrade (one of them is that Pander Warriors get certain bonuses based on Pander Brewmasters stats and more) and Aghanim's Scepter effect.
I think this is practically uncodeable. It can be done, but it would take lots of time. Anyway, I don't like the idea. T-Down.
8 - Changed Pander Warriors names from Earth, Fire and Storm to Earth Warrior, Fire Warrior and Storm Warrior.
T-Down.
Overall, a thoughtful suggestion. I would like to see some of this implemented.
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Old 09-25-2010, 10:03 PM   #10
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItIsNight View Post
2. hard to calculate damage, it makes him uncomfortable to play or play vs himso. T-DOWN.
3. u make haze useless before leveling 3-4 times. T-DOWN.
4. uncodeable. T-DOWN.
5. Nice.
6. For what?
7. What's the changes? Write full list of changes.
8. I prefer "panda", not "warrior".
2 - Hard to calculate the damage? o.0
I bet you could find a 5 year old who wouldn't have trouble doing it.
3 - Erm, no it does not.
10% slow and 30% for 7 sec is nice bonus for 50 mana and 12 sec cooldown and it actually makes you want to upgrade that skill.
4 - Says who?
I think that we should leave this to Ice Frog to decide.
5 - Thanks.
6 - Duration of Primal Split of course.
7 - I wrote it all down together with other skills description and gave link for current stat.
If I did it there, it would be too messy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hauzer View Post
Overall, a thoughtful suggestion. I would like to see some of this implemented.
1 - I did it because his skill now is weakened and demands stats to be effective.
2 - Thank.
(That is actually part of Mangix I wish to change the most. )
3 - Currently you will get a really strong spell at level one.
This way it actually pays of to level it up.
Usually I would only get one level from this skill and leave it at it until I get all other skills and attribute bonuses.
4 - Thank again. ^^
6 - This makes him more balanced in my opinion, that's the reason why I did it.
7 - It can be done without much problem.
Proof of that are other attribute based skills.
Reason why I did it is because now Mangixes Pander Warriors will get stronger in certain areas as he gets stronger.
8 - I did it because I think calling them like they are called is simply too unspecific (something like calling your dog 'a dog').
Thanks for support. ^^
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Old 09-26-2010, 12:59 AM   #11
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

kindly recolor the changes made >,<
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:13 AM   #12
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Panda. PandA.

With an A.
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Old 09-26-2010, 05:48 AM   #13
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Eh, the only part I like is adding to the split panda's damage and hp as his own stats go up. The rest of your suggestion sis horribly overcomplicating a very good hero.
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Old 09-26-2010, 06:13 AM   #14
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

T-Up for Drunken Brawler, if it's codeable. Need balancing however.
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Old 09-26-2010, 09:43 AM   #15
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nthviciouskino View Post
kindly recolor the changes made >,<
I will make more detailed changes today.
Not right now because we are having 15 guests over for lunch so I'm kinda in a tight spot right now.
But still, after all is over, I will make more detailed list of changes and put reasons why I made them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monsterlord View Post
Eh, the only part I like is adding to the split panda's damage and hp as his own stats go up. The rest of your suggestion sis horribly overcomplicating a very good hero.
Thanks.
But, come on.
Pander stomp is awesome because it makes use of all 3 elements Mangix is based on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nivo View Post
T-Up for Drunken Brawler, if it's codeable. Need balancing however.
Probably true.
It would be great if someone makes a test map.
That way I could exactly see what need balancing and in what way.
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Old 09-26-2010, 10:18 AM   #16
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
2 - Hard to calculate the damage? o.0
I bet you could find a 5 year old who wouldn't have trouble doing it.
part of damage is physical and you must know how many armor target have, part of damage is magic and you must know how many damage will be rezisted. And i don't like it. It's the reason i don't like it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
3 - Erm, no it does not.
10% slow and 30% for 7 sec is nice bonus for 50 mana and 12 sec cooldown and it actually makes you want to upgrade that skill.
ms-decrease prorates ok, but misses must be higher than 30/45 on 1-2 levels.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
4 - Says who?
I think that we should leave this to Ice Frog to decide.
"Misses can't be checked by triggers or jass. Or it can be remaked backtrack-like, allowing panda to dodge spells too." Say i'm, one who has is 6+ years of wc3-mapmaking.
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Old 09-26-2010, 11:05 AM   #17
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItIsNight View Post
part of damage is physical and you must know how many armor target have, part of damage is magic and you must know how many damage will be rezisted. And i don't like it. It's the reason i don't like it.
Erm, Tauren Chieftain already has physical/magical skills, so I don't see a problem here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItIsNight View Post
ms-decrease prorates ok, but misses must be higher than 30/45 on 1-2 levels.
Synergy of Drunken Haze is much stronger now with other skills, than it was, so making it start with 45% instead of 30% would make him imba.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItIsNight View Post
"Misses can't be checked by triggers or jass. Or it can be remaked backtrack-like, allowing panda to dodge spells too." Say i'm, one who has is 6+ years of wc3-mapmaking.
I've made a possible scenario of how it could work.
Even so, if misses can't be checked by triggers and has to be remade into a backtrack-like skill, then just make that skill so it doesn't work for spells.
Also, the same thing should be done with Drunken Haze miss also (for the synergy).
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:17 PM   #18
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
Erm, Tauren Chieftain already has physical/magical skills, so I don't see a problem here.
I don't like him and never play. Idiotic hero i think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
Synergy of Drunken Haze is much stronger now with other skills, than it was, so making it start with 45% instead of 30% would make him imba.
mb,mb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
I've made a possible scenario of how it could work.
Even so, if misses can't be checked by triggers and has to be remade into a backtrack-like skill, then just make that skill so it doesn't work for spells.
Also, the same thing should be done with Drunken Haze miss also (for the synergy).
you can't check is damage source a spell or not >> you can't make trigger based skill other from void's one. And it's the reason you can't make it synergy with DHaze.
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:30 PM   #19
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreggon View Post
Panda. PandA.

With an A.
Please fix the spellings like stated above

Otherwise T-up on most things
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:01 PM   #20
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItIsNight View Post
I don't like him and never play. Idiotic hero i think.
Well, I think that he is very good hero.
Not one of my favorites since I don't play with strength heroes much (Mangix and few other are exceptions), but still a good hero.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItIsNight View Post
mb,mb.
?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ItIsNight View Post
you can't check is damage source a spell or not >> you can't make trigger based skill other from void's one. And it's the reason you can't make it synergy with DHaze.
Oh, well, if it can't be done, it can't be done.
But still, I'll leave it as it is in case miracle happens.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleader134 View Post
Please fix the spellings like stated above

Otherwise T-up on most things
Sure, can you only point where are those mistakes?
Can't find them! >.<
Thanks for T-up though.
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Old 09-26-2010, 06:13 PM   #21
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Sure, can you only point where are those mistakes?
Can't find them! >.<
Thanks for T-up though. [/QUOTE]

I only saw Panda. Its spelt Panda (PANDAREN Brewmaster) not Pander
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Old 09-26-2010, 06:42 PM   #22
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleader134 View Post
Sure, can you only point where are those mistakes?
Can't find them! >.<
Thanks for T-up though.
I only saw Panda. Its spelt Panda (PANDAREN Brewmaster) not Pander[/QUOTE]

Thanks a bunch.
I'll fix that tomorrow.
To tired now, need sleep, zzz...
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:52 PM   #23
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Pandaren Clap: TUp, bringing the concept of the Ult in a normal skill is great and I prefer this workout over the current skill as well. I really like it

Drunken Haze: Idk, could be a nerf.

Drunken Brawler: Idk if thats codeable, afaik you cant detect when you dodged an attack. It could work if its triggered, but then it wont work with second skill and that could be a huge problem.
Furthermore, this makes the skill completely counterable by MKB, making MKB even more a must if facing Panda.

Ult: Idk.


You should make your suggestion easier to read, its very hard.
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Old 09-28-2010, 07:01 AM   #24
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JJE92 View Post
Pandaren Clap: TUp, bringing the concept of the Ult in a normal skill is great and I prefer this workout over the current skill as well. I really like it

Drunken Haze: Idk, could be a nerf.

Drunken Brawler: Idk if thats codeable, afaik you cant detect when you dodged an attack. It could work if its triggered, but then it wont work with second skill and that could be a huge problem.
Furthermore, this makes the skill completely counterable by MKB, making MKB even more a must if facing Panda.

Ult: Idk.


You should make your suggestion easier to read, its very hard.
Pandaren Clap: Thanks.

Drunken Haze: This skill had its nerfs and buffs in my opinion, but I think that in the end, it stayed the same.

Drunken Brawler: Ach, that bloody MKB True Strike! >.<
But then again, that makes all skill with miss in it useless.
I made a remake of MKB to fix his imbaness (well it is in my opinion ).
There is link for it in my signature.
Still, if it can't be coded, Drunken Brawler can stay as it is now.
I am just making an idea, not a demand (or am I?).

Ulti: Yeah, it takes time to digest all the stuff I wrote there.
Honestly, even I sometimes don't understand it all, haha.

Anyway, sorry about my messiness.
I'm old-school idea maker (way back from Dota Portal under the alias as Mefistofeles) and that was how it was done back in my days.
When I learn how to use tables and stuff, I will make it all better and easier to read.
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:45 AM   #25
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Instantly T-Up. Great remake.
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:06 AM   #26
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Oooh finally... Someone with more time than me to notice how weak the current Panda is AT LATE GAME.

1st skill- I definitely like this. Very good idea. Change the fire damage to magical though since pure is too OP. Other than that, T-UP!

2nd skill- YES! IT SHOULD'VE DONE THIS A LONG TIME AGO EVEN BEFORE THIS WAS SUGGESTED. The ladder skill does this, so why not here in DotA? T-UP!

3rd skill- If I understood correctly, this is what it would look like:
Troll Warlord w/ Drunken Haze Lvl 4 attacks Panda w/ Drunken Brawler Lvl 4= 100% miss = 1.75x CRIT ON TW ON EVERY ATTACK?!?!?! WHOA! Too OP imo. Change the way the crit procs, else make it percent based like before. Good concept though. Needs tweaking. T-NULL here...

4th skill- YOU ARE THE MAN! Change Immolation to magical though, and don't let earth panda's skills deal damage to buildings. Great idea w/ Pulverize though. AWESOME!!! T-UP!

IMPLEMENT!!!
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Old 09-28-2010, 10:50 AM   #27
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

I'll T-UP for the reason that we are both dyslexic ^__^ ...
here is my view.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
Changes:
1 - Improved stats and stat growth a bit.
Not needed imo, but everyone loves a stat boost ... but still not necessary.
2 - Remade Thunder Clap into Pander Clap.
Nice but i dont really get the point of splitting the damage into 3 types. and i dont think the mini stun is needed the 5% additional slow is much better than a 0.2 stun ... but adding it makes it thematic and visually appealing so T-1/4UP and T-3/4Down
3 - Rescaled how Drunken Haze levels up.
You added a force synergy that would be like Batrider ... im not sure with this T-NULL
4 - Changed how Drunken Brawler works.
Nice concept but hard to code T-DOWN
5 - All skills are made so that they have better synergy (i.e. Drunken Haze doubles fire damage from Pandaren Clap).
Everyone wants a good synergy so T-UP
6 - Increased mana cost of Primal Split and increased duration.
Why? Beacuse of the improved Pandas? T-Down
7 - Changed Pandaren Warriors stats (health, damage, some skills, etc) and added some other special bonuses for Aghanim's Scepter upgrade (one of them is that Pandaren Warriors get certain bonuses based on Pandaren Brewmasters stats and more) and Aghanim's Scepter effect.
Earth : i agree with making it a fortified based but i dont like what you did to the skills adding a lot of complications to its gameplay. I would suggest you just add Demolition skill if you want it to be siege type. Fire: ???. Storm : Dont agree with merging windwalk and cyclone. I dont even think if its possible. I dont like the chain lightning too.
8 - Changed Pandaren Warriors names from Earth, Fire and Storm to Earth Warrior, Fire Warrior and Storm Warrior.
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Old 09-29-2010, 01:15 PM   #28
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abrams View Post
Instantly T-Up. Great remake.
Thx.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsbn View Post
Oooh finally... Someone with more time than me to notice how weak the current Panda is AT LATE GAME.
I always loved the pandas, but it always got on my nerves that in late game they could be used only as a escape mechanism.
That's why I nerfed 'em in some ways, but to make them become better at late game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsbn View Post
1st skill- I definitely like this. Very good idea. Change the fire damage to magical though since pure is too OP. Other than that, T-UP!
True that pure damage is strong, but I don't think that it will make him imba since it's only 25 damage/second for 5 sec, but I am still thinking about it.
Plus, this fits storm/earth/fire theme better, but still, if someone ever makes a test map for him, I could more easily see where he needs balancing and in what way.
For now I won't mess with him too much unless something is obviously imba (like it seems that Drunken Brawler is).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsbn View Post
2nd skill- YES! IT SHOULD'VE DONE THIS A LONG TIME AGO EVEN BEFORE THIS WAS SUGGESTED. The ladder skill does this, so why not here in DotA? T-UP!
Since he is one of 2 heroes that changed at least when transferred from ladder to DotA (other being Lich), I decided to at least bring back some synergy from ladder, but not change current skills a lot.
Glad you like it. ^^

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Originally Posted by dsbn View Post
3rd skill- If I understood correctly, this is what it would look like:
Troll Warlord w/ Drunken Haze Lvl 4 attacks Panda w/ Drunken Brawler Lvl 4= 100% miss = 1.75x CRIT ON TW ON EVERY ATTACK?!?!?! WHOA! Too OP imo. Change the way the crit procs, else make it percent based like before. Good concept though. Needs tweaking. T-NULL here...
You are right about this one being a bit imba.
How about lowering critical to 1.5x?

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Originally Posted by dsbn View Post
4th skill- YOU ARE THE MAN! Change Immolation to magical though, and don't let earth panda's skills deal damage to buildings. Great idea w/ Pulverize though. AWESOME!!! T-UP!
Hmmm, how about making it magical and then pure with Aghanim's Scepter, would that be OK?
And you are right about Earth Warriors skills damaging buildings.
He already has a Siege type damage.
I think that it's enough.

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Originally Posted by dsbn View Post
IMPLEMENT!!!
Tell that to Ice Frog, not me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nthviciouskino View Post
I'll T-UP for the reason that we are both dyslexic ^__^ ...
here is my view.
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nthviciouskino View Post
Changes:
1 - Improved stats and stat growth a bit.
Not needed imo, but everyone loves a stat boost ... but still not necessary.
Main reason why I did it is because it is important for his ultimate.
It's slight, but still important increase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nthviciouskino View Post
2 - Remade Thunder Clap into Pander Clap.
Nice but i dont really get the point of splitting the damage into 3 types. and i dont think the mini stun is needed the 5% additional slow is much better than a 0.2 stun ... but adding it makes it thematic and visually appealing so T-1/4UP and T-3/4Down
Stun is there for 2 reasons.
1 - to make it fit his Storm/Earth/Fire theme more.
2 - for stopping channeling spells.
And 3 damage types, well, all to make him more unique.
True, it may look a bit to complicated, but DotA already has 90+ heroes and a lot of skills that resemble each other a lot, so a bit complication is needed to make them be more unique.
At least that's what I think.
Uniqueness > Simplicity

Quote:
Originally Posted by nthviciouskino View Post
3 - Rescaled how Drunken Haze levels up.
You added a force synergy that would be like Batrider ... im not sure with this T-NULL
I actually tried to bring his original synergy from ladder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nthviciouskino View Post
4 - Changed how Drunken Brawler works.
Nice concept but hard to code T-DOWN
Still, if it can be coded, I think that it will be worth it so I'll leave it like this (will do no harm to anyone).

Quote:
Originally Posted by nthviciouskino View Post
5 - All skills are made so that they have better synergy (i.e. Drunken Haze doubles fire damage from Pandaren Clap).
Everyone wants a good synergy so T-UP
Yap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nthviciouskino View Post
6 - Increased mana cost of Primal Split and increased duration.
Why? Beacuse of the improved Pandas? T-Down
And that Pandaren Clap that is preformed when you activate your ultimate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nthviciouskino View Post
7 - Changed Pandaren Warriors stats (health, damage, some skills, etc) and added some other special bonuses for Aghanim's Scepter upgrade (one of them is that Pandaren Warriors get certain bonuses based on Pandaren Brewmasters stats and more) and Aghanim's Scepter effect.
Earth : i agree with making it a fortified based but i dont like what you did to the skills adding a lot of complications to its gameplay. I would suggest you just add Demolition skill if you want it to be siege type. Fire: ???. Storm : Dont agree with merging windwalk and cyclone. I dont even think if its possible. I dont like the chain lightning too.
I am going to make some slight changes to Earth Warrior (will probably remove that his skills deal damage to buildings), while Storm Warrior is fine in my opinion since I gave him a buff, aka Stormblast, witch is a very good nuke (witch he need because of his low damage) and I've putted Cyclone and Windwalk into one skills so it nerfes him a bit since he can use only one at the time (while the good side is that he can apply windwalk to his allies to and not only himself, witch could make him a nice team player).
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Old 09-29-2010, 02:28 PM   #29
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
You are right about this one being a bit imba.
How about lowering critical to 1.5x?
I don't think its the crit multiplier thats the problem, but the way it procs. Your new drunken brawler and haze make it possible to get a crit on every hit on one target (provided he would be attacking you). Then again it does raise the argument of Panda being one of the best (if not the best) anti- carries in the game and this skill definitely supports it, which is why T-null...

Can't think of anything for this for now...
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Old 09-29-2010, 05:57 PM   #30
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsbn View Post
I don't think its the crit multiplier thats the problem, but the way it procs. Your new drunken brawler and haze make it possible to get a crit on every hit on one target (provided he would be attacking you). Then again it does raise the argument of Panda being one of the best (if not the best) anti- carries in the game and this skill definitely supports it, which is why T-null...

Can't think of anything for this for now...
Well, if you have an good idea say it.
If his current Drunken Brawler + Drunken Haze combo proves to be to imba, I think that reducing his critical to 1.5x would do the trick.
But still, look at skills like Magnataurs Empower, it gives him 45% increase in damage and 45% cleave for 30 sec, while the cooldown is only 12 sec and costs only 40 mana.
With those conditions, he can constantly keep him and one of his allies boosted with that power and they can use it against all enemies, not just one like Mangix can.
And it's only one skill, while Mangix has to use a combo and that it would affect only 1 enemy and for much shorter period of time.
So in term of power compared to some other heroes powers, I think that it is not that imba as it seems.
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Old 09-30-2010, 12:48 PM   #31
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
Well, if you have an good idea say it.
If his current Drunken Brawler + Drunken Haze combo proves to be to imba, I think that reducing his critical to 1.5x would do the trick.
But still, look at skills like Magnataurs Empower, it gives him 45% increase in damage and 45% cleave for 30 sec, while the cooldown is only 12 sec and costs only 40 mana.
With those conditions, he can constantly keep him and one of his allies boosted with that power and they can use it against all enemies, not just one like Mangix can.
And it's only one skill, while Mangix has to use a combo and that it would affect only 1 enemy and for much shorter period of time.
So in term of power compared to some other heroes powers, I think that it is not that imba as it seems.
True. Magnatuar does have that ability, and he can practically keep himself or any teammate on perma cleave. This would be a big nerf on Panda, and one that is actually good if ever it's implemented. Who wouldn't want their fav hero to be OP? I would. Lol.

Still empty on ideas...
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:30 PM   #32
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

I like the synergy that the ladder panda has, drunken haze + fire, even though you included it in two entirely different skills from breath fire. T-up for that.

The Drunken Brawler as you suggested it is definitely uncodeable, as misses can't be detected. What you can do though, is making the skill a triggered heal only triggered by attacks. This would also solve the problem with Mkb absolutely countering it.
What's kinda sad is that the synergy with Haze will be gone, but hey, there's just that much you can do with the wc3 engine. T-null here, maybe we can come up with something different

Ultimate: I never liked this ultimate, with it's fixed unit strength and whatnot. You make the ultimate scale with Mangix' items and stat bonuses, which is pretty sweet. The Stormblast ability is awesome, as it's damage can be dependant on enemies positioning. If there are only three targets in a row, the one in the middle will take the highest damage. I'd love to see such an ability for a new hero, to be honest.
I disagree on having Mangix spawn on the Fire Panda though, it makes it too easy to escape with the ultimate. Still, definitely a T-up for the overhaul of the skill, the current one is kinda boring/stale.
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Old 09-30-2010, 04:33 PM   #33
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

T-up on 1st skill and ulti, rest is unnecessary. Problem of passive is it doesn't synergies with Ulti.
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Old 09-30-2010, 05:54 PM   #34
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 101101001101001 View Post
I like the synergy that the ladder panda has, drunken haze + fire, even though you included it in two entirely different skills from breath fire. T-up for that.

The Drunken Brawler as you suggested it is definitely uncodeable, as misses can't be detected. What you can do though, is making the skill a triggered heal only triggered by attacks. This would also solve the problem with Mkb absolutely countering it.
What's kinda sad is that the synergy with Haze will be gone, but hey, there's just that much you can do with the wc3 engine. T-null here, maybe we can come up with something different

Ultimate: I never liked this ultimate, with it's fixed unit strength and whatnot. You make the ultimate scale with Mangix' items and stat bonuses, which is pretty sweet. The Stormblast ability is awesome, as it's damage can be dependant on enemies positioning. If there are only three targets in a row, the one in the middle will take the highest damage. I'd love to see such an ability for a new hero, to be honest.
I disagree on having Mangix spawn on the Fire Panda though, it makes it too easy to escape with the ultimate. Still, definitely a T-up for the overhaul of the skill, the current one is kinda boring/stale.
I can't think of anything better for his Drunken Brawler skill than this.
Maybe it should work like Backtrack like you said, but it is true that it will ruin his synergy with Drunken Haze unless miss from Drunken Haze is also made to work like Backtrack.
Anyway, if it can't be done, it can't be done.
At least I'm glad you like my other ideas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenKnife View Post
T-up on 1st skill and ulti, rest is unnecessary. Problem of passive is it doesn't synergies with Ulti.
Well, I wanted to make as many as synergies as possible, but to make Mangix still stay as same old hero and this is the best I could do.
But I think that his Pandaren Clap + Primal Split synergy is good enough though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsbn View Post
True. Magnatuar does have that ability, and he can practically keep himself or any teammate on perma cleave. This would be a big nerf on Panda, and one that is actually good if ever it's implemented. Who wouldn't want their fav hero to be OP? I would. Lol.

Still empty on ideas...
With duration of 30 sec and 12 sec cooldown he can make himself AND one of his teammates to have permanent cleave and bonus damage and that's one mean ability.
But still, no need to rush things, let the ideas come to you by them self.
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Old 09-30-2010, 06:36 PM   #35
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Also, "Lighting damage = pure" and "Fire damage = Magic" can make more sense.
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Old 09-30-2010, 07:37 PM   #36
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenKnife View Post
Also, "Lighting damage = pure" and "Fire damage = Magic" can make more sense.
Yes, I was thinking the same thing, but it could make it a bit too imba.
Also, it would make Pandaren Clap + Drunken Haze combo worth less.
Plus, lighting looks pretty magical also.
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:23 PM   #37
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lithary View Post
Yes, I was thinking the same thing, but it could make it a bit too imba.
Also, it would make Pandaren Clap + Drunken Haze combo worth less.
Plus, lighting looks pretty magical also.
You can make people that are under effects of drunken haze get more damage from lighting too, you know, when you are wet, eletricity has greater effect.

I don't know why but fire is just more "magical" and lighting feels like "pure".
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:13 PM   #38
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

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Originally Posted by FrozenKnife View Post
You can make people that are under effects of drunken haze get more damage from lighting too, you know, when you are wet, eletricity has greater effect.

I don't know why but fire is just more "magical" and lighting feels like "pure".
Alcohol isn't conductive, let the fire synergy be as it is. Just for the ladder reference.
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Old 10-01-2010, 05:52 AM   #39
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

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Originally Posted by 101101001101001 View Post
Alcohol isn't conductive, let the fire synergy be as it is. Just for the ladder reference.
Fire can stay as it is. Just "pure" lightings makes more sense than "pure" fire. Fire can stay same.
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:15 PM   #40
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Default Re: Mangix the Pander Brewmaster remake.

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Originally Posted by FrozenKnife View Post
Fire can stay as it is. Just "pure" lightings makes more sense than "pure" fire. Fire can stay same.
True, but it could really make some balance issues.
I'm telling you, it makes sense to me to, but this just makes it more balanced and is still not that big of a deal in my opinion.
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