chadpiety123's Comprehensive Guide to Synergy

[chadpiety123]

-=-=COMPLETED=-=-

*This is LONG-- Go TLDR if you know what you're doing.

**If you want to request a section, or want to contribute in one, feel free to post in the thread, it would be better if this becomes an effort by the community.

Color Codes

• Section Summary
• Description
• Examples

Table of Contents
1. Synergy
2. Role of Synergy

2.1. Niche
2.2. Effectiveness
2.3. Gameplay

3 Types of Synergy

3.1. By Nature

3.1.1. Inherent Synergy
3.1.2. True Synergy
3.1.3. Forced Synergy
3.1.4. Mastery Synergy
3.1.5. Blurring the Line

3.2. By Component

3.2.1. Skill Synergy

3.2.1.1. Self Synergy
3.2.1.2. Skill Synergy

3.2.2. Hero Synergy
3.2.3. Item Synergy

3.3. By Approach

3.3.1. Direct Synergy
3.3.2. Indirect Synergy
3.3.3. Counter Synergy

4. What is not Synergy
5. Acknowledgements

1. Synergy
According to Dictionary.com [Credits to Eethn],
Synergy means:

1. The interaction of two or more agents or forces so that their combined effect is greater than the sum of their individual effects.
2. Cooperative interaction among groups, especially among the acquired subsidiaries or merged parts of a corporation, that creates an enhanced combined effect.

Simply put, a synergy is a combination of elements that go very well together in a highly exceptional way, may they be abilities, heroes or items.

For the sake of discussion, I will focus on skill synergy the most because, in the end, everything boils down to that and the essense is almost completely the same.

These synergies may include:

• Abilities that trigger each other, either homogeneously or forced (Ex: Firefly triggers Sticky Napalm's bonus damage)
• Abilities that allow the other ability to be performed (Ex: Meat Hook allows effective Dismember)
• Chain disables (Ex: Demon Witch, Shadow Shaman)
• Chain nukes (Ex: Slayer)
• Abuses (Ex: Firefly's dps abuses Sticky Napalm's bonus damage, Shadow Wave abuses Weave's minus armor, Dismember's disable abuses Rot's dps)
• Etc.

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2. Role of Synergy
In reality, synergy is not a technical necessity for a hero. One could just probably throw in 4 uber-cool abilities to a pool, and complete a hero that might still prove useful or effective. But there are a few things that may come with synergy that might prove both fulfilling and advantageous to the hero in the long run.

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2.1. Niche
Synergy has a great effect on a hero's niche. It is one of the factors that determine where a hero will focus, where his strengths will lie and what he is effective at.

One may argue that skill set alone, even without synergy, is enough to find a definitive role for a hero BUT synergy reinforces these strengths and focuses such that the hero becomes more specialized in a field or niche. These synergies represent strength and effectiveness in a certain task.

For Example, Pandaren Brawler's Thunderclap makes Primal Split more manageable, strengthening his intiating capacity in the process. Earthshaker's whole skill set and even more, combined with dagger makes his initiating strength unignorable.

For a clearer example, let's look at Pudge; Dismember isn't really much of a ganking ability, but with Meat Hook, he becomes a ganker because of his ability to grab an unknowing target, disable that target for a few seconds, and slow it to death, all this while dishing out massive amounts of damage.

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2.2. Effectiveness
As mentioned in synergy's definition, a Synergy is a combination of elements that go very well together in a very exceptional way. With this alone, one could infer that the main goal of synergy is increasing effectiveness.

To further the understanding regarding effectiveness offered by synergy, I'll use the examples mentioned before.

Say, Pudge (again); his Dismember being melee in range won't be very effective in a sense, because of his very slow speed and lack of stealth but Meat Hook solves this problem on the spot. If he didn't have Meat Hook, will he be as effective?

Let's use the all time favorite Mirana. Elune's Arrow is at it's best at far distances but having an ability that requires proximity (i.e. Star Fall), she won't be as effective. This is where Leap comes in. Whenever she's able to hit with her arrow, her Leap makes her make use of the stun time more effectively (attacking), and approach faster for Starfall.

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2.3. Gameplay
If you remember the old Razor, though he might've been effective late game, his overall skill set is pretty bland and lacks a lot of flavor. His capabilities also fall subpar as compared to other heroes which perform the same role. This is because he lacks synergy.

Synergy is one of the things which keep gameplay of a hero interesting. The more synergies a hero has, the more interesting he will be because of the various combinations he can perform in different given situations. This also makes a hero more fun to play in a sense because of the "combos" synergy provides.

If Rhasta didn't have Shackles, his Mass Serpent Wards might prove a bit too tedious to use.

One of the best examples probably for a synergy that defines gameplay is Ogre Magi's. Ogre Magi's multicast totally transforms one weak and hefty nuke and disable, one bland dps, and one overly simplistic buff, into something even more, not only affecting effectiveness but also gameplay and fun in the process.

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3. Types of Synergy

3.1 By Nature

3.1.1. Inherent Synergy
Inherent Synergy may seem too simple a synergy that it is seldom or mostly never considered as one and more often considered as outside the synergy category.

Simple as it sounds, this is composed of chain nukes and chain disables. People will argue that this one is simply strategy or tactics, but in a way, it is also a form of synergy, but, as I've mentioned, it is too simple and too common to consider as one. It is the most shallow of all types and therefore never or rarely considered as one.


Examples are Slayer and Lord of Olympia's nukes used consecutively, and or Demon Witch and Shadow Shaman's chain disabling of a target. Though these heroes use this type of synergy, this doesn't mean that they have a shallow gameplay. They're the types that specialize in this and therefore, are no less than most heroes.

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3.1.2. True Synergy
This type of synergy requires its component to do two different things, but in the end, they should have an end product that exceeds the usual combination of abilities. What makes this different from Forced Synergy (will be discussed later), is that none of the components has any condition, parameter or effect whatsoever that improve the other specifically, they just happen to. The weight of each components remain the same during the process but the end result is a better one. None of the elements of the synergy is particularly specialized to forcibly synergize and combine with the other.

Let's look at our friendly Pudge. His skills, Meat Hook, Rot, Flesh Heap, and Dismember, all synergize naturally and exhibit examples of true synergy. Meat Hook works great with Dismember (as has always been mentioned) and Rot (manintains range). Dismember works very well with Rot and Flesh Heap and finally, Rot works wonders with Flesh Heap.

As you can see, Meat Hook doesn't really do anything special other than pull to melee range and damage. It just happens that Dismember and Rot are effective against targets in melee range. Rot magically damages Pudge, and Flesh Heap is able to counter this because of magic resistance, but notice that Flesh Heap does the same to all magical attacks. Flesh Heap increases strength depending on number of kills and again, hurray for coincidence (or well thought out planning), Rot is an AoE ability which allows killing of rax faster, and Dismember has a damage upgrade based on strength. And I'm still not mentioning the fact that upgraded Dismember heals Pudge, perfect for Rot's self damage!

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3.1.3. Forced Synergy
Forced Synergy is simply overly specific Synergy. These types of synergy have one of its elements contain a specific condition, parameter or effect that directly and forcibly improves another ability. The added effect in the end is explicitly specified and is programmed that way. Using almost the same terms I used in the True Synergy section, in a Forced Synergy, one element gains more weight for the other component because that element is specifically made to work and improve the other. In summary, a forced synergy has at least one component that has an effect specifically made to strengthen and reinforce the other. This means that that effect cannot be achieved unless otherwise the other required element is there because no other ability, hero, or item can fulfill the necessity of the other ability.

Forced Synergy mostly but not generally, means bad design.

An example of a hero raining with Forced Synergy is Tiny. Tiny's avalanche deals more damage to a target if that target is tossed within an interval. In addition Grow, directly increases Toss' damage specifically. It doesn't just happen that Grow does that, because Grow's specific effect is that.

As I've mentioned, forced synergy might mean bad design BUT it is not a generalization. One of the heroes that live only on forced synergy but undeniably a well designed (and even complex designed) hero is Invoker. His Ultimate ability, Invoke is purely dependent on Quas, Wex and Exort, but his whole gameplay is dependent on that.

Shadow Fiend and Ogre Magi also fall under this category.

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3.1.4. Mastery Synergy
In a sense a subclass of Forced Synergy, Mastery Synergy are passives that directly improve the capabilities of a hero and the hero's abilities. This is forced synergy in a sense, but I opted to put it in another section because it's basically a different type of Forced Synergy.

Examples of this include synergies provided by Witchcraft, Synergy and Grow.

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3.1.5. Blurring the Line
Sometimes classifying synergy becomes too tedious because of how concept and lore are combined within two abilities. These abilities in the end might end up being classified as either true or forced but some just tend to blur the line between these two.

Let's take the newest additions to Dota for an instance.

Is Batrider's Sticky Napalm and his other abilities and attack forced synergy? Or is it true and natural synergy? If we look at it, what it does is increase the damage of all things from Batrider by a certain amount. Therefore, it is not forced synergy, because it works on all things that come from Batrider. When compared to Earthshaker's Aftershock, though, the latter falls to the forced side because it doesn't work on item abilities as well.

How about Ancestral Charge and Echo Stomp? Technically speaking, it is Forced Synergy, but because of how it's implemented it seems to lie on the middle. Whenever Echo Stomp is used, Tauren still summons the spirit and the spirit still performs its part of the spell similar to when Echo Stomp is casted during Ancestral Charge. So is it forced synergy? Probably. Probably not. It's technically in the middle.

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3.2 By Component

3.2.1. Skill Synergy
Self Synergy. Self Synergies include abilities which synergize with themselves. Seldom does this synergy happen.

Skill Synergy. Skill synergy is the standard form of synergy. This includes synergies with different components within the same hero.

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3.2.2. Hero Synergy
This synergy requires components that synergize to be in different heroes. This is not limited to abilities, and may also involve gameplay, playstyle, hero stats and etc.

A very good example is Phantom Lancer and Keeper of the Light. Phantom Lancer's Phantom Lance is a highly spammable powerful nuking ability with a soft disable. The only problem is its very high mana cost, and Phantom Lancer's mediocre mana pool. Keeper of the Light's Chakra Magic is able to complement this and thus sustains mana for Phantom Lancer to spam his nuke almost non-stop.

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3.2.3. Item Synergy
This requires interaction between components where one of them should be an item. Similar to Hero Synergy, this is not limited to abilities and capabilities alone but also other possible components of a hero like stats and etc. as long sa it applies and still pass as synergy.

An example of this is Stealth Assassin and Diffusal Blade. It might not seem apparent at first because the synergy is very Indirect (will be discussed later). Diffusal Blade's agility bonus and Backstab works good with each other and Stealth Assassin's high attack speed abuses the orb provided by Diffusal Blade. Moreover, the Purge (Diffusal Blade) along with Smoke Screen, makes Rikimaru a viable ganker in a way and along with Blink Strike, a powerful chaser.

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3.3 By Approach
This type of synergy, at times is subject to interpretation.

3.3.1. Direct Synergy
Direct synergies are synergies whose components without doubt affect and strengthen each other. It is safe to say that most Forced Synergies are examples of direct synergy because one element bluntly strengthens the other.

Examples of direct synergy include:

• Dismember and Rot
• Sticky Napalm and Batrider's other abilities
• Chakra Magic and Arcane Orb
• Echo Slam and Aftershock.

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3.3.2. Indirect Synergy
Indirect synergies on the other hand are synergies whose potency is subject to different factors like reaction, decision and skill. These synergies are abstract synergies because their components have no direct link, but they work together very well. All indirect synergies are True Synergies.

This type of synergy includes:

• Chakra Magic and Phantom Lance
• Shadow Wave and Shallow Grave
• Berserker's Call and Battle Hunger
• Thunder Clap and Drunken Brawler

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3.3.3. Counter Synergy
Counter Synergy is a subclass of indirect synergy. This type has its elements abuse the lacks of the other or force targets to choose from two paths that both has ill effects. The keywords for this is "making-up" and "trapping." Notice that the components of this one do not directly synergize, but they either fill the shortcoming of the other ability or they trap the target into choosing from various decisions, all with ill effects.


Butcher's Meat Hook and Dismember can fall under "making up"
but not completely. A perfect example of this (sorry but this is the best way to explain this) is the Ultimate ability of my Hero Suggestion, Verus Consilium. One subskill costs life and recovers mana while the other subskill costs mana and recovers life.

A perfect example of "trapping" Counter Synergy is Rupture and Blood Rage. If you stay and not get damaged by Rupture, Bloodseeker can just attack you while buffed using Blood Rage. On the otherhand, if you run, then you get damaged by Rupture.

Nether Ward combined with Curse of Silent can be considered as a "trapping" synergy as well. Either you cast and get damaged by Nether Ward or not cast at all and get damaged by Curse of Silent. This is also similar with Ion Shell and Battle Hunger.

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4. What is not Synergy
What's not synergy is pretty hard to express in words because at the end of the day, synergy especially indirect ones, depend heavily on creativity. Some indirect synergies might even seem too indirect to be a synergy at all, and some indirect synergy may seem to potent that they become direct. With just this, the line between direct and indirect becomes too thin to recgnoze.

It is important though, especially to not sound pathetic and stupid, to know what is not synergy. In my own opinion, anything that is too simple (in exception to Ineherent Synergies), can be considered as not synergy. Anything that can be done by most to all people cannot be considered synergy at all, especially if there is no real great improvement in the effects of both when combined.

Given we have Pudge (again), and he Dismembered a target. Having Stealth Assassin guard Pudge so he will not be stunned is not synergy. That is teamwork. I guess that sums up most points.

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5. Acknowledgements

• NoThinG
• Eethn
• Cp6uja_
• Maw2
• Zirath

[NoThlnG]

3.2.1 Skill Synergy

Sounds better than self synergy doesn't it?

[Kingsley]

There should be a what is not synergy section.

for example, casting spells in a combination is not synergy.

[triangle]

for example, casting spells in a combination is not synergy.

Can be if the aim of all the skills is to do as much damage as possible, or indeed, they have some higher purpose. Zues for example, has synergy in his mass nuking. Synergy may often also require skills to be cast in a certain combination.

I don't think a "what is not synergy" section is required, because I don't think there's decidedly such a thing. Sure, there are variants of what synergy may not be, but deciding on them is a waste of time since this guide will provide us with the knowledge of what synergy is.

EDIT: The headings look very promising.

[Kingsley]

Originally Posted by notveryclever

Can be if the aim of all the skills is to do as much damage as possible, or indeed, they have some higher purpose. Zues for example, has synergy in his mass nuking. Synergy may often also require skills to be cast in a certain combination.

I don't think a "what is not synergy" section is required, because I don't think there's decidedly such a thing. Sure, there are variants of what synergy may not be, but deciding on them is a waste of time since this guide will provide us with the knowledge of what synergy is.

EDIT: The headings look very promising.

See, this is why we need it.

Zeus has synergy only between Static Field and his spells. Using Arc Lightning and then Lightning Bolt after for more damage is not synergy sir.

Synergy is when one thing with another thing makes both things together greater. Zeus casting all of his spells at once doesn't make each of them greater, they will still have the same effect as if you casted them separately.

It's called a nuke/combo, not synergy. This section is required because people will only take what they initially thought was synergy and add on to it with whatever may be in guides such as this. However, they won't discard what they used to think was synergy which actually isn't because the guide didn't say so.

[Audacious]

think I can write a novel about all the different types. ^^

I'll get right to it as soon as I can.

Especially with a forced synergy part. So it doesn't get to much of a hater festival.

But I got a question.
Why would anyone read this ?

Also. There are so many opinions about synergy.
So I guess you just want to make some definitions for them, because I already know that we won't agree on what works best.

So a definition that isn't one sided and cons and pros for the type?

Or what do you have in mind?

[triangle]

Can't be bothered Kingsley.

http://forums.dota-allstars.com/inde...359&hl=synergy

EDIT:

Good work thus far Chadpiety123. Very informative. Hope Kingsley takes a good look at it.

[R.B.Economy]

According to Homepage | Dictionary.com,
Synergy means:

1 The interaction of two or more agents or forces so that their combined effect is greater than the sum of their individual effects.
2 Cooperative interaction among groups, especially among the acquired subsidiaries or merged parts of a corporation, that creates an enhanced combined effect

Arc Lightning + Lightning Bolt > individual Arc/Bolt, so IT'S a synergy. This is the 1st definition.

Arc Lightning + Static Field = enhanced Arc Lightning, which is also a synergy. This is the 2nd definition.

Hope I helped.

[Kingsley]

Oh dear why are you people dumbing this thread up. Anyways I'm out after this one.

The interaction of two or more agents or forces so that their combined effect is greater than the sum of their individual effects.

Eethn, listen. Level 1 lightning/bolt combined effect would make 185 damage to the target.

Now, the sum of their individual effects would be 85 + 100.

185 = 185. Therefore, the combined effect is not greater than the sum of the individual effects.

Therefore it's not fucking synergy.

[R.B.Economy]

chad is right, it's called Inherent Synergy.

[HellCraft]

Originally Posted by Kingsley

Oh dear why are you people dumbing this thread up. Anyways I'm out after this one.



Eethn, listen. Level 1 lightning/bolt combined effect would make 185 damage to the target.

Now, the sum of their individual effects would be 85 + 100.

185 = 185. Therefore, the combined effect is not greater than the sum of the individual effects.

Therefore it's not fucking synergy.

You are taking the damage as a pure value, and pure values fail at balancing.

Ever wondered why does a robe of magi costs 450 gold and a mantle of intelligence costs only 150 gold?
You can get the same effect by paying 150 gold less can you?

If your answer is that 1 slot costs 150 gold then you are wrong. Why does a circlet of nobility cost 185 gold and an ironwood branch cost 53 gold?
That way circlet of nobilities should be costing 256 gold instead(53+53+150).

The reason why its like that is because +6 int much better than the double of +3 int, or +3 agi is better than the double of +3 agi.

Take an example, you have 200 mana, you need 250 mana to unleash your full combo. Now, with +3 int you wont be able to unleash your combo at one go, and will have to wait for your mana to regenerate, thus letting your enemy escape with 31 hp while you are waiting.
Now if you have +6 int, you can cast your whole combo giving the enemy lesser opportunities to survive.


Now lets come to our pal Zeus.
If the enemy has 150 hp, and 5 hp regen/sec and you cast lightning bolt right after arc lightning(as per your calculations, i haven't cross-checked), you will deal 185 damage.
Now lets say, you cast your spells individually, you cast your lightning bolt exactly 8 seconds after you cast your arc lighting, your enemy will escape with 5 hp because he got healed by 40 via his hp regen.
Other than hp regen there are other factors too, such as giving your enemy time to run away, the enemy can use a bottle/salve, he can cast his disable(s), or call allies.

[chadpiety123]

So for the sake of discussion (because I just finished the section you are all arguing about), I suggest you read Inherent Synergy section.

[AmplifyDamage]

minimal health regen is irrelevant.

[HellCraft]

Originally Posted by AmplifyDamage

minimal health regen is irrelevant.

That was just an example. Most importantly you will be giving the enemy some time to react to your attack that creates a (huge) flaw.

EDIT: Btw, its Storm, Earth and Fire, Heed my Call*, not Calls.

[utryidont]

This is going to look good once it's complete.

Also: one of switch's recommended guides contains this statement:

1. Forget About Synergy

Don't worry about synergy in your hero designs. The concept is not well understood by most, regardless. Synergy is not, for example, when two skills work together well (though synergistic skills usually do work together well, that's not what synergy is), or when two skills can be cast in a combination.

A few people in this thread (notveryclever, Eethn, HellCraft) should take that advise.

[HellCraft]

Originally Posted by utryidont

This is going to look good once it's complete.

Also: one of switch's recommended guides contains this statement:


A few people in this thread (notveryclever, Eethn, HellCraft) should take that advise.

I would not believe in that, where did you get it from.

Post a hero idea with no synergy at all and I bet you that people will start saying that its a joke hero or its an extremely bad design.

Without synergy the hero becomes very plain and boring, heroes that don't have any synergy at all are boring to play and thats why they are rejected.

I would say that synergy is the second most important thing you need for a good skill set coming right after balance.

[Cp6uja]

Guide is way too long, and it won't help new suggestors understanding it.

Shorten it, please.

Also, put some key sections, because like this all sections look the same.

[R.B.Economy]

Suggestion for shortening: Category, short description, example. Skip the sweeteners.

[TL-Flames]

Agreed, you might want to redo the formatting a little. I'll read it when its fully complete, i don't mind a lengthy read so put in all the detail you want.

Really important aspect of any RPG style game, so any creators should really keep this stuff in mind.

[HELLRAISER]

guide looks good to me, and what is written there so far are correct