[Nerf] Phase Shift - remove autocast

Infrisios · 09-09-2009, 11:55 AM

Hey guys,
this is something that bothers me for a long time.
Puck's phase shift got autocast. On one hand, it is not really reliable - sometimes it triggers fast enough, sometimes it doesn't.
But the main problem I have with this ability is that it takes zero skill to evade something with it when it is on autocast. Zeus ultimate? No problem, just activate autocast on this cheap 20-mana-6-sec-cd-spell to be safe.

Tinker missile? Activate autocast, you won't have to take care of it.
Storm Bolt? Autocast.
ES ulti? Autocast.
Lich ulti? Autocast.
387465784 remote mines? Autocast.
Any ulti/nuke? Autocast.

I think autocast should be removed. It will still be an extremely strong skill, fading out of the game for nigh-zero mana every 6 seconds to take no damage at all is still incredibly strong. You can still evade the abilities I talked about when you are good, but it would require timing.

But at least it won't be a 6 sec cd Linken's also working against AoE.

Another reason is that, for beginners, it is just bad as an autocast. First, if they got it on autocast they possibly won't even try it on manual cast when fighting heroes, falling to common tricks like getting attacked.
Second thing is that it is not that reliable, some spells are evaded, some are not. Beginners will, of course, wonder why it did not work. For them everything should be consistent.

What do you guys think about it?

BabyComix · 09-09-2009, 11:57 AM

!support

Always thought a Phase-autocasted puck was way too cheap.

Chairraider · 09-09-2009, 12:01 PM

!support, the manacost for the spell is too low aswell.

XGIRAFFEX · 09-09-2009, 12:04 PM

It would make puck a little harder to play, but then again not many people use the autocast anyhow, from what I've seen. It's like blink evade without the moving part, and should require timing.

I support it.

And abortion, because god knows we all make mistakes.

This message brought to you by: The Underground Stem-Cell Research Labs of America.

tombking · 09-09-2009, 12:07 PM

Support

sazabi · 09-09-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Zeus ultimate? No problem, just activate autocast on this cheap 20-mana-6-sec-cd-spell to be safe.

so what? many heroes counter many skills.
like omgwtf omniknight is a hacker with repel? counters all orbs? isnt that imba?
magina > big mana pool?
pipe > carefully placed aoe spell?
abbadon > zeus ulti as well.
damn the list is actually too long...

why dont u cast chainlightning on that bastard and ulti after that?
why you must fight EVERY hero in the same way?
christ. L2P

LeraX · 09-09-2009, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chairraider

!support, the manacost for the spell is too low aswell.

#...

HΞADSHΘΓ · 09-09-2009, 12:39 PM

lol..owned. the fragile puck ><
support man..he's annoying..Burst Damage+Imba surviability

Infrisios · 09-09-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sazabi

so what? many heroes counter many skills.
like omgwtf omniknight is a hacker with repel? counters all orbs? isnt that imba?
magina > big mana pool?
pipe > carefully placed aoe spell?
abbadon > zeus ulti as well.
damn the list is actually too long...

why dont u cast chainlightning on that bastard and ulti after that?
why you must fight EVERY hero in the same way?
christ. L2P

Repel is casted manually.
It should just require some skill to counter them. Think about balance.
Learn to play if you want the autocast and are unable to use it on manual cast :P

I don't want to remove the ability, just the retarded autocast. If you are a good player it won't change much for you.

To all others, thanks for the support. I am glad that I am not the only one with that opinion

Nerevarie · 09-09-2009, 12:59 PM

support, but it doesent work against pudge beacose it drags pudge still :P get BS to kill him

ResQ · 09-09-2009, 01:00 PM

Support. We definitely need more pro shit

Infrisios · 09-09-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The-Shaman

support, but it doesent work against pudge beacose it drags pudge still :P get BS to kill him

What does that have to do with the suggestion? :-|

illmind · 09-09-2009, 04:41 PM

I don't agree
If you think he has autocast on just rightclick him and he'll waste his phaseshift
It's not really hard to counter

Infrisios · 09-09-2009, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by illmind

I don't agree
If you think he has autocast on just rightclick him and he'll waste his phaseshift
It's not really hard to counter

It's not about how hard it is to counter imo.
Besides, many abilities have higher range then the hero's attack range.
And the fact that it can automatically block a Zeus ult every 6 seconds for 20 mana is just ridiculous. If the player can time it however - by guessing when Zeus can cast his ult - it is still possible to evade it, just not automatically but with skill, which is a huge difference to me.

Necro · 09-09-2009, 05:43 PM

I feel Puck is perfectly balanced. Yes, I do get annoyed when people take my pro dodges as 'auto phase'. But I think this is just something that makes him unique. Avoiding Zeus' Ultimate may be a bit annoying, but I feel it's perfectly fine. Any nerf would make Puck subpar, who isn't really all that awesome as of late.

Ways to counter:
Thundergod's Wrath: I don't really see the need to cast this after a battle, but yes, it can prove annoying.
Remote mines: trigger one, let Phase Shift be wasted, procreed.
Missiles: Counter harassment with an evade, something very nice in DotA, I wish there were more counter-spells which needed a little more skill. I do see what you mean by this though.
Lich ulti: You would manually phase anyway after around one hit. I don't think Lich would be so stupid as to cast on a lonesome Puck, but 1 hit is no big deal.
ES Ulti: This is the biggie, but I don't see the classic Blink-Ulti before previous initiation.
Storm Bolt: Dodgable without Shift with ease.

Ah yes, compare a Phase Shift without autocast to a Blink of around the same mana, which can also dodge spells (with a little more effort) and move around. But yes, overall skillsets do come to mind.

After much debating with myself, I'm sorry, I'll have to disapprove

.

---

Off-topic: Does DTM work on 1.24? Do you have to reinstall it? Thanks

.

doomsheep · 09-09-2009, 05:52 PM

tinker is lame he can kill peoples from 9001 range away make rockets require some skill lol

zues is lame he can kill ppl with one button

...duh!

puck is a perfectly balanced hero. no need to nerf him for more omgwtfskill.

Infrisios · 09-09-2009, 06:19 PM

DTM works easily.

Comparing to blink:
You are basically right, it is quite much like a blink usable just to evade.
But: You can use it MUCH faster since you only have to hit the hotkey or click the button and you don't have to think about a target. If you used a blink, you'd have to prepare long before, thinking where to blink best. If you blink to hastily, you might select a position too close (blink won't work) or a wrong position. And in that case, you'd also have wasted the blink - very much unlike Puck, who would still have his "blink" (Kelens and/or Illusory) ready.
Also, Phase Shift gets you out for a longer duration, allowing you to evade things a blink can't evade.

Doomsheep, your reasoning is stupid in my opinion.
Imagine Zeus' ulti had an autocast saying "is automatically casted when an enemy hero could be killed with it". Yeah. Nice. Best do that for all abilities, so you can watch your hero own.

Unnamed_ · 09-09-2009, 07:19 PM

You said that it triggers on time with some skills and doesn't do the same with others:
That is incorrect!
It always triggers on time, but if the disable of a skill comes before the damage(NS' Void, Luna's Lucent Beam, Shackles, Doom) you get the point, you will be stunned by the time you receive the damage, and won't activate Phase shift.By the time the stun is over, you don't get damaged anymore, so it doesn't activate.

In my opinion it is fine as it is, puck is a nice hero, but I have noticed that his team presence wanes more than the one of other heroes like him in games.He is fine as he is.

doomsheep · 09-09-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Doomsheep, your reasoning is stupid in my opinion.
Imagine Zeus' ulti had an autocast saying "is automatically casted when an enemy hero could be killed with it". Yeah. Nice. Best do that for all abilities, so you can watch your hero own.

more like, what if zeus couldnt kill lich with his ult?

without autocast you wouldnt be able to evade frost nova.

TheRealTechN9NE · 09-09-2009, 08:44 PM

T-Up for obvious reasons

09-09-2009, 11:55 AM	#1
Infrisios Forum Staff Join Date: May 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 2,461 Blog Entries: 3	[Nerf] Phase Shift - remove autocast Hey guys, this is something that bothers me for a long time. Puck's phase shift got autocast. On one hand, it is not really reliable - sometimes it triggers fast enough, sometimes it doesn't. But the main problem I have with this ability is that it takes zero skill to evade something with it when it is on autocast. Zeus ultimate? No problem, just activate autocast on this cheap 20-mana-6-sec-cd-spell to be safe. Tinker missile? Activate autocast, you won't have to take care of it. Storm Bolt? Autocast. ES ulti? Autocast. Lich ulti? Autocast. 387465784 remote mines? Autocast. Any ulti/nuke? Autocast. I think autocast should be removed. It will still be an extremely strong skill, fading out of the game for nigh-zero mana every 6 seconds to take no damage at all is still incredibly strong. You can still evade the abilities I talked about when you are good, but it would require timing. But at least it won't be a 6 sec cd Linken's also working against AoE. Another reason is that, for beginners, it is just bad as an autocast. First, if they got it on autocast they possibly won't even try it on manual cast when fighting heroes, falling to common tricks like getting attacked. Second thing is that it is not that reliable, some spells are evaded, some are not. Beginners will, of course, wonder why it did not work. For them everything should be consistent. What do you guys think about it? __________________ Mechanic Article - Clickability My suggestions When they come for me, I'll be sitting at my desk With a gun in my hand, wearing a bulletproof vest singing "My, my, my, how the time does fly, when you know you're going to die By the end of the night." And said hey - Streetlight Manifesto - Keasbey Nights

Last edited by Infrisios; 09-09-2009 at 05:27 PM.

09-09-2009, 12:01 PM	#3
Chairraider Forum Staff Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Austria Posts: 362	Re: [Nerf] Phase Shift - remove autocast !support, the manacost for the spell is too low aswell.

09-09-2009, 12:04 PM	#4
XGIRAFFEX Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 90	Re: [Nerf] Phase Shift - remove autocast It would make puck a little harder to play, but then again not many people use the autocast anyhow, from what I've seen. It's like blink evade without the moving part, and should require timing. I support it. And abortion, because god knows we all make mistakes. This message brought to you by: The Underground Stem-Cell Research Labs of America.

09-09-2009, 12:07 PM	#5
tombking Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5	Re: [Nerf] Phase Shift - remove autocast Support

09-09-2009, 12:39 PM	#8
HΞADSHΘΓ Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 30	Re: [Nerf] Phase Shift - remove autocast lol..owned. the fragile puck >< support man..he's annoying..Burst Damage+Imba surviability

09-09-2009, 12:59 PM	#10
Nerevarie Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Never say my anus again. Posts: 1,847 Blog Entries: 1	Re: [Nerf] Phase Shift - remove autocast support, but it doesent work against pudge beacose it drags pudge still :P get BS to kill him

09-09-2009, 01:00 PM	#11
ResQ Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 4,516 Blog Entries: 2	Re: [Nerf] Phase Shift - remove autocast Support. We definitely need more pro shit

09-09-2009, 04:41 PM	#13
illmind Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3	Re: [Nerf] Phase Shift - remove autocast I don't agree If you think he has autocast on just rightclick him and he'll waste his phaseshift It's not really hard to counter

09-09-2009, 05:43 PM	#15
Necro Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: India Posts: 1,506	Re: [Nerf] Phase Shift - remove autocast I feel Puck is perfectly balanced. Yes, I do get annoyed when people take my pro dodges as 'auto phase'. But I think this is just something that makes him unique. Avoiding Zeus' Ultimate may be a bit annoying, but I feel it's perfectly fine. Any nerf would make Puck subpar, who isn't really all that awesome as of late. Ways to counter: Thundergod's Wrath: I don't really see the need to cast this after a battle, but yes, it can prove annoying. Remote mines: trigger one, let Phase Shift be wasted, procreed. Missiles: Counter harassment with an evade, something very nice in DotA, I wish there were more counter-spells which needed a little more skill. I do see what you mean by this though. Lich ulti: You would manually phase anyway after around one hit. I don't think Lich would be so stupid as to cast on a lonesome Puck, but 1 hit is no big deal. ES Ulti: This is the biggie, but I don't see the classic Blink-Ulti before previous initiation. Storm Bolt: Dodgable without Shift with ease. Ah yes, compare a Phase Shift without autocast to a Blink of around the same mana, which can also dodge spells (with a little more effort) and move around. But yes, overall skillsets do come to mind. After much debating with myself, I'm sorry, I'll have to disapprove . --- Off-topic: Does DTM work on 1.24? Do you have to reinstall it? Thanks . __________________ Against stupidity the Gods themselves contend in vain. Puck Aghanim's Effect \| Invoker Victory Animation \| Shapeshift Sound Against the Ropes on www.DotA-Allstars.com.

09-09-2009, 05:52 PM	#16
doomsheep Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5,234	Re: [Nerf] Phase Shift - remove autocast tinker is lame he can kill peoples from 9001 range away make rockets require some skill lol zues is lame he can kill ppl with one button ...duh! puck is a perfectly balanced hero. no need to nerf him for more omgwtfskill. __________________ you are grossly lacking the technical skill required to play this hero and instead of recognizing this and improving you are bitching for the game to change.

09-09-2009, 06:19 PM	#17
Infrisios Forum Staff Join Date: May 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 2,461 Blog Entries: 3	Re: [Nerf] Phase Shift - remove autocast DTM works easily. Comparing to blink: You are basically right, it is quite much like a blink usable just to evade. But: You can use it MUCH faster since you only have to hit the hotkey or click the button and you don't have to think about a target. If you used a blink, you'd have to prepare long before, thinking where to blink best. If you blink to hastily, you might select a position too close (blink won't work) or a wrong position. And in that case, you'd also have wasted the blink - very much unlike Puck, who would still have his "blink" (Kelens and/or Illusory) ready. Also, Phase Shift gets you out for a longer duration, allowing you to evade things a blink can't evade. Doomsheep, your reasoning is stupid in my opinion. Imagine Zeus' ulti had an autocast saying "is automatically casted when an enemy hero could be killed with it". Yeah. Nice. Best do that for all abilities, so you can watch your hero own. __________________ Mechanic Article - Clickability My suggestions When they come for me, I'll be sitting at my desk With a gun in my hand, wearing a bulletproof vest singing "My, my, my, how the time does fly, when you know you're going to die By the end of the night." And said hey - Streetlight Manifesto - Keasbey Nights

Last edited by Infrisios; 09-09-2009 at 06:43 PM.

09-09-2009, 07:19 PM	#18
Unnamed_ Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 5,250	Re: [Nerf] Phase Shift - remove autocast You said that it triggers on time with some skills and doesn't do the same with others: That is incorrect! It always triggers on time, but if the disable of a skill comes before the damage(NS' Void, Luna's Lucent Beam, Shackles, Doom) you get the point, you will be stunned by the time you receive the damage, and won't activate Phase shift.By the time the stun is over, you don't get damaged anymore, so it doesn't activate. In my opinion it is fine as it is, puck is a nice hero, but I have noticed that his team presence wanes more than the one of other heroes like him in games.He is fine as he is.

09-09-2009, 08:44 PM	#20
TheRealTechN9NE Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 149	Re: [Nerf] Phase Shift - remove autocast T-Up for obvious reasons __________________ Current suggestions: Cosmetic: -Spirit Lance visuals Balance/Remakes: Scaling Geminate Attack/\/Epicenter+Blink fix/\/Sanity's Eclipse remake/\/Nether Ward buff _____________________________________________ Don't be calling me dog cause I want you to say it backwards